What is the best paint for an old machine restoration.

[57mm_M18]

Lamp black if you have read Charles Dickens , he sold it as iron stove polish. Grate Expectations

I would add cobalt napthenate as driers

Never thought that I could crack an old joke like that

Regards

Norman

Thank you Norman. I have wondered about this surface finish ever since I had to clean and repaint my first mill some 58 years ago.

I love the old joke crack.

Charlie

 

[l.dullum]

A friend in the hot-rod fraternity told me that they use J-B Weld to smooth out engine block casting surface defects before painting. I have used this on model engine castings to great effect. I don't know about obtaining large quantities for machine castings and the like. Auto body primer works well, as it contains lots of filler to smooth out rough surfaces. Plan on a few coats, wet-sanding in between with 320 Wet-or Dry, to get a really nice surface finish.

Larry

 

[almega]

Definitely enjoyed the Dickens reference. Good one!

 

[Anatol]

Norman
This reminds me - when I was a kid, I was taught a recipe for aquarium putty using linseed oil, whiting, and 'white lead'. Mixed it up in my hands, it worked but I surely got a good serving of lead
I still don't know what 'whiting' is. Calcium carbonate?
Lamp Black - yeah, so much oil in it. Probably gave off some nasty fumes when the stove got hot.

Dave- auto filler, like bonds - polyester resin with ...whatever junk you can find, cement powder, etc. Going that route, I'd use epoxy with a fine, relatively inert mineral filler - plaster power might work. Problem is, when it sets, seining it is like sanding bricks - it wears our abrasives. Fumed silica is bette and its thixotropic. Glass or phenolic microbaloons are good for bigger hole and they sand well.

M18- I guess adhesion is important, so degreasing would be key

 

[goldstar31]

Anatol


It is calcium carbonate or in old fashioned parlance 'lime wash' made heated up limestone in kilns

I've used it in Spain on my villa walls to save money but then I said 'What the Hell 'and the new huge drums of oil bound paints/wall coverings were available. It's probably where I learned to scrape.

Now how much titanium dioxide went in to the brew is anyone's guess but safer than using white lead which was also the bane of people's lives. I recall as boy 'lead burners' as a job.

What most people fail to realise is the cheap fillers used to bulk out resins. Some of the grey coatings are 'slate dust'

I think that I'm right in the above. The years - many have passed and all that I'm really left with is the company dividends from a huge conglomeration of paint, plastics and chemicals. The other side is pharmaceuticals and packaging.

By Jove how the money rolls in- rolls in

 

[Cogsy]

Fumed silica is bette and its thixotropic. Glass or phenolic microbaloons are good for bigger hole and they sand well.

I don't know much about filler materials but I'm curious as to what advantage there is using a thixotropic fluid? Is it just ease of application?

 

[Anatol]

I don't know much about filler materials but I'm curious as to what advantage there is using a thixotropic fluid? Is it just ease of application?

Hi Cogsy
thixotropic fillers like fumed silica are great when working vertical - it doesn't flow (down). I once made the mistake of mixing glass microbaloons and fumed silica - the microballoons behave like ball bearings, so the whole lot flowed down in an ugly mess that looked like porridge. (I got that off before it set). Ditto for working overhead, drips of epoxy in the eye, face, hair are never welcome.

 

[Mike Ginn]

I am building a Wyvern and am thinking of lightly sand (glass) blasting the brass and steel components to give consistent finish. Maybe with some clear matt spray to protect. Does anyone have a view on this process? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks. Mike

 

[Cogsy]

Hi Cogsy
thixotropic fillers like fumed silica are great when working vertical - it doesn't flow (down). I once made the mistake of mixing glass microbaloons and fumed silica - the microballoons behave like ball bearings, so the whole lot flowed down in an ugly mess that looked like porridge. (I got that off before it set). Ditto for working overhead, drips of epoxy in the eye, face, hair are never welcome.

Ah, so it's not really the thixotrophic nature that you're interested in but the high viscosity then? I was imagining some 'special' application benefits or something.

 

[Anatol]

Ah, so it's not really the thixotrophic nature that you're interested in but the high viscosity then? I was imagining some 'special' application benefits or something.

you may be right, I've heard the term used in reference to epoxy filled with fumed silica, but it may not be thixotropic in the strict sense, just viscous. There is online some discussion of truly thixotropic paint, advantage being it flows off the brush/spray but then gels when not moving. Come to think of it, cement and plaster do this too.

 

[Anatol]

I am building a Wyvern and am thinking of lightly sand (glass) blasting the brass and steel components to give consistent finish. Maybe with some clear matt spray to protect. Does anyone have a view on this process? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks. Mike

any kind of blasting with hard media will create a finley pocked surface, great tor taking primer, terrible if you want to polish or plate.

 

[Cogsy]

you may be right, I've heard the term used in reference to epoxy filled with fumed silica, but it may not be thixotropic in the strict sense, just viscous. There is online some discussion of truly thixotropic paint, advantage being it flows off the brush/spray but then gels when not moving. Come to think of it, cement and plaster do this too.

Many fluids are shear-thinning, and as you say many paints and slurries certainly are. Some things, like toothpaste or canned whipped cream, are Bingham plastics which flow under shear but almost solidify as soon as shear is removed and retain their surface features. Truly thixotropic fluids have a time-dependent increase in viscosity such that there is not a sudden or instantaneous increase in viscosity as soon as shear is removed. I believe stirred yoghurt has this property where the shear created by stirring reduces viscosity and upon ceasing the stirring the yoghurt takes a measurable few seconds to slowly return to its thickened state.

So long-story-short, I was wondering if the filler somehow flowed into crevices or something before returning to the fully viscous state. Just some idle curiosity...

 

[Anatol]

Cogsy
thanks, I've learned a lot about the subtlties of thixotropicity (?) in this thread
"I was wondering if the filler somehow flowed into crevices or something before returning to the fully viscous state"
Nah, I think its just goopy.
"Truly thixotropic fluids have a time-dependent increase in viscosity such that there is not a sudden or instantaneous increase in viscosity as soon as shear is removed."
this is the opposite of the famous cornstarch and water nonewtonian fluid effect...

I guess that's antithixotropic
When I was a kid I hung out with geomorphologists, one of who was 'famous' for naming the quality of mudslides to suddenly liquify. He called it "Lottle", based on the rhyme 'be careful with the ketchup bottle, first none comes but then a lottle'. It sounds like Ogden Nash. Turns out the original was by Richard Willard Armour .
Now, what was that about steam engines?

 

[bazmak]

I have refurbished a no of Myford lathes and found epoxy enamel straight off the shelf at the local
hardware store to be the best and easiest.Can be handled after 24hrs but takes a no of days to fully cure/harden
Sure there are better more exotic paints and if you have the equipment and funds etc will do a better job
But for what most of us home workshop engineers want good old epoxy enamel is great

 

[Cogsy]

I guess that's antithixotropic

[snip]

When I was a kid I hung out with geomorphologists, one of who was 'famous' for naming the quality of mudslides to suddenly liquify. He called it "Lottle", based on the rhyme 'be careful with the ketchup bottle, first none comes but then a lottle'. It sounds like Ogden Nash. Turns out the original was by Richard Willard Armour .

'Antithixotropic' fluids are called rheopectic fluids (shear-thickening) and there is very few of them, starch and water being the most famous. Most fluids are non-Newtonian but the vast majority are shear-thinning. This is why when you hit the bottom of your ketchup bottle hard enough, you introduce enough shear to momentarily liquefy the contents and flood your plate. Perhaps the most famous shear-thinning fluid after ketchup/tomato sauce is quicksand (although it's also a very important property of blood).

And yes, back to the engines seems appropriate.

 

[MrMetric]

I thought the sideline was really quite interesting. I learned a bit more about painting than I expected. That said, I have to admit that I'm almost more confused now than when I first started reading this thread a few years ago. I'm considering painting a machine and I am not sure *what* to use now. I really want to understand more about the acrylics and such. I'd like something durable, but I don't want to kill myself in the process.

Separately, painting engines is an area where I should look around HMEM to see what useful posts exist. I don't recall any, but I'm *sure* they exist. Generally speaking, I am guessing it is the cast engines that will probably have the most angst for people. I know it is that way for me... I'm wondering how others prep... Body filler, no filler, paint type, etc...

 

[ajoeiam]

You likely already know this but do realize that old paints and fillers, on old machine tools have a very high probability for lead. So you will not want to have young people around when refinishing the paint. Clean up is important too.

Unfortunately machine tools are a tough environment for paints. If you want better life than what a rattle can from the local hardware store can offer you will need to be willing to spend on pro quality paints suitable for machine tools. In that regard you have two basic choices, Urethane and Epoxies. The rational thing to do is to visit some local paint supply stores and get a handle on what they offer.

One example of a high performance "paint" is "Imron" from Dupont used in the transportation industry. Now that is a highly specialized coating system that probably isn't amendable to DIY usage. Rustoleum sells an Epoxy Mastic paint to the industry that is probably better suited to DIY. Try this page: https://www.rustoleum.com/pages/industrial/resources/product-specs/. Generally what you will run into is the better the coating the more difficult to apply. Imron is slightly notorious in this regard requiring special equipment.

Meant as feedback on your information.
Your email is actually (IMO) quite recent but Rustoleum has changed its website and so the link comes up as a 404 (page unknown/unavailable).
Wondering if a way of reducing that for readers at some point in the future might be to actually attach the page(s).
So I tried using Rustoleum's web contact form - - - - seems like the Recaptcha is in an infinite loop.
Next tried a phone call to their Canuckistani support division (they are open at 08.05 CST!!(09.05 their time)) only to find out that the Industrial support system is somewhat new to them - - - end result - - - - no advice as to products.
Seems like the web has devolved to a pretty pictures kind of thing - - - well - - - - it 'was' useful for a while.

So I have some more digging to find 'good' product.
(Thanks for the tips!!!!!!!)

 

[Wizard69]

Meant as feedback on your information.
Your email is actually (IMO) quite recent but Rustoleum has changed its website and so the link comes up as a 404 (page unknown/unavailable).
Wondering if a way of reducing that for readers at some point in the future might be to actually attach the page(s).
So I tried using Rustoleum's web contact form - - - - seems like the Recaptcha is in an infinite loop.
Next tried a phone call to their Canuckistani support division (they are open at 08.05 CST!!(09.05 their time)) only to find out that the Industrial support system is somewhat new to them - - - end result - - - - no advice as to products.
Seems like the web has devolved to a pretty pictures kind of thing - - - well - - - - it 'was' useful for a while.

So I have some more digging to find 'good' product.
(Thanks for the tips!!!!!!!)

Sadly these days many companies don't understand the web and its importance to communicating with its customers. Links like I provided should be good for basically forever. Even if the product is discontinued, the web page should be updated to say that.

As for finding a "good product" I still think for most people the best bet is to visit a local paint store that handles more than house paint. Hopeful the guy behind the counter will have more knowledge about what he can easily get and maybe more important it easy to use for a DIY project. Even with 2 part paints there is a wide variety of types and and even within the types or brands, formulation very. Most of the formulation changes have been made to make products safer. Safer however is not safe which is the reason to go to a good paint supplier as hopefully they can outfit you properly for safety.

 

[Charles Lamont]

I still think for most people the best bet is to visit a local paint store that handles more than house paint.

AFAIK There is no such thing in the UK

 

[goldstar31]

AFAIK There is no such thing in the UK

If there is a demand for a product and there is a willingness to pay for it, there will always be someone to fill that need.
Some( a lot of years ago) I had a Myford Super7B slideways ground and sensibly I asked where 'they ' got their paint. I was informed that theirs came from a firm in Tyneside - which quite bluntly was and is the scene of tons and tonnes of paint and finishes being manufactured. As I have said, I'm a shareholder - and doing quite well- Thank you.The machine tool business, ship building and whatever have gone--- bluntly arse over ***.
There is, however , quality paints available from such places as ships chandler's where one can buy and relieve your purse of substantial sums of money. Again, I have chipped that horrid bilious green Myford paint on my present Myford and will either take a sample of paint to be matched at the local Halfords or do what others are doing-- and buying on the 'net. The 'net is where I will have to pay a collection and delivery charge when I put my order in o feed my shivered frame tomorrow. Today, - I hope hat some nive young man will deliver a sort of backplate for my other lathe and will have received the custumary delivery payment of 50p for his services.

This- and I am trying to keep abreast of things is the 'way of things.
My father in law 'made paint' for his 50 workmen to apply on all the railway stuff from the Border at Berwick o Tweed down to York and now his great grandson is organising a fleet of drivers to deliver paint or whatever-- and receive the customary money for delivery.
Nothing has changed- apart from Lagonda car to a top of the range Mercedes still with the same numberplate. There is still a breed of people who are unwilling or unable to pay for things.
In this case- their hobby.
Nothing has changed!