Werowance attempts Upshur Vertical Single

[werowance]

had part of the day Saturday to play in the garage and made the flywheel and rope start pully but before i went out i also 3d printed the insulator block. the screws in the insulator block are just there to test fit only. i am going to try to make the points as per plans instead of using off the shelf points like in the webster build. also debured some of the drill / ream holes which left a large bur on the exit side of them. 6061-t6 aluminum is what the side plates were made out of. seemed a bit gummier or softer than the same material i used on the webster. maybe just me and its not a problem to debur, just an observation.

 

[werowance]

and the pulley/flywheel

 

[Art K]

Did you make the flywheel in one piece?
Art

 

[werowance]

no 2 piece. plans call for it that way. the flywheel and pulley get pressed on a bushing which holds the 2 together and then that bushing is reamed to fit the crankshaft. i prefer to make a dbit reamer out of left over material from the crankshaft to ream the flywheel or in this case bushing so that i get a spot on fit with no wobble. i usually take a piece of emory cloth to that dbit before its actually cut into a dbit so its diameter is slightly smaller thus making a tight fit reamed hole for bushing or flywheel so it doesnt wobble.

 

[werowance]

thinking ahead here but in the plans, the head is made of aluminum and the valve seat is actually cut right into the aluminum with a press in brass guide tube but the seat is part of the aluminum head itself. so i was thinking about this. 1. is aluminum acceptable for a valve seat? if so great no problem. if not then i have a very large chunk of bronze, almost a firelog chunk size of it i picked up dirt cheap. would bronze be acceptable to make the head out of thus having a bronze valve seat? i suppose i could also cut a piece of brass and press it in to make the seat out of as well if the aluminum is not acceptable.

 

[Art K]

I did use the aluminum as the valve seat. I had no problem with that, as I probably said earlier "run hard put away wet". I didn't see the point in doing the 3 part flywheel, so I did it one piece with taper lock mounting to the crank. I need to make a new one to incorporate a one way bearing for the starter & maybe a pulley to run a generator.
Art

 

[josodl1953]

I think it depends on the aluminium quality you are using. The original Edwards radial 5 design specifies both valve guide and seat to be machined directly in the 7075T6 aluminium heads. So yes, aluminium valve seats are definitely an option if you can machine them in one operation with the valve guides. However , I found it easier to use the valve cage construction with the valve seat and guide machined in one operation from bronze as a separate insert mounted with Loctite or a shrink/press fit in the cylinder head. It is up to you to choose whatever suits you best.

Jos

 

[werowance]

ok, so bronze is acceptable as a valve seat. wasn't sure as I figured bronze may be softer than 360 brass ? on that note I don't even have a chunk of aluminum large enough for the head but I do have a chunk of bronze large enough. so I may use that for the head instead of aluminum.

ive not gotten much done but I did cut the cam shaft rod as well as part of the crankshaft rod. pretty much just had to use emory cloth to bring it down very slightly so it would slide into the ball bearings. then I looked around for the square stock needed for the crank and found a stick of unknown steel that I picked up several years ago to make feather/wedges out of to remove some rocks in my yard. it started out as a 20 foot stick and is now down to about 10 or 15 feet long. I cut a couple slugs off of that and will glue them together to make final size cuts and drill / ream operations. I was going to try a 1 piece crank but since I cant get stress proof in square stock and a chunk large enough make a square out of round would be costly and time consuming so since I had the square stock in hand I'm going to try and go that route with it. the bearings in the pics are just barely pushed in. ill do the final push in with some locktight when the time comes.

 

[werowance]

and a question, since I'm going to switch to a built up crank, plans for the built up version call for silver solder which I am so so at doing but the high heat needed to do it concerns me about warpage. I saw a different build where it was pinned (as my plans say to do as well) but instead of silver brazed it was simply lock tighted and pinned. anyone have any good or bad experience doing it that way? then another question, I know silver solder comes in at least 3 grades, hard, medium and soft. the soft is still hard compared to regular solder and still needs a lot of heat. was wondering if there is a grade that is even softer and lower heat but not as soft as plumber solder that might work?

 

[werowance]

today I did some experimenting with silver soldering and a built up crank. this has probably been done before or is a bad thing I don't know but the experiment turned out well. the grove in the rod is way to large and was just simply done as a quick and dirty test piece. but here is what I want to do. drill and ream all holes, insert rods and position to where they need to be. cross drill like Im going to pin them. then disassemble, cut grooves in the rods at the cross drill just enough to bend silver solder into. flux (after all cleaning was done) and then insert rods back into the square stock with silver oring bent into the grove. then into the cross drill hole where a pin would be inserted I stick a piece of the silver solder into that hole. hole was measured / drilled just for this silver wire.

results on test piece were great. not runs or puddles. everything still nice and square etc. I tried to cut an inside grove like an internal snap ring grove for the solder and had problems so instead I cut the groove on the rod and all went very nice. again this is a test piece and the grove and such will be cut with a little more care and accuracy.

I cut a countersink in the outer hole to let a little silver pool up but I didn't put enough silver sticking out so it ran on down in the hole and filled the excess grove that I had cut. that grove also had silver solder wrapped around it but the groove was way bigger than it needed to be since I didn't bother to realy measure for a test. so next time the grove will be cut more precise. the countersink hole will have a little more silver solder sticking out of it to pool up and flow down through the cross drill hole and ring.
no puddled up solder around the important edges to file or cut off and clean up. just clean up the nasty flux.

 

[werowance]

edited becuase of double post of previous one. something went wrong with my internet

 

[werowance]

edited becuase of double post of previous one. something went wrong with my internet

 

[werowance]

so here we start with the crank, getting it ready to solver solder. the 3 flecks of aluminum are just spacers to keep the width for the rod correct when clamped. the reamed holes are very nice and tight. was dificult to get them pushed through by hand, i hope that keeps things straight when brazing.

 

[awake]

Looking good!

 

[Cogsy]

so here we start with the crank, getting it ready to solver solder. the 3 flecks of aluminum are just spacers to keep the width for the rod correct when clamped. the reamed holes are very nice and tight. was dificult to get them pushed through by hand, i hope that keeps things straight when brazing.

STOP! Hopefully I caught you in time before you soldered it. If you clamp against the aluminum spacers you will have a problem with the spacers melting as you silver solder and your spacing will get all messed up. Yes, speaking from personal experience here...

 

[minh-thanh]

. If you clamp against the aluminum spacers you will have a problem with the spacers melting as you silver solder and your spacing will get all messed up. Yes, speaking from personal experience here...

 

[werowance]

Thank you. glad I put it up on the shelf last night and called it quits. my thought was the solder wouldn't stick to the aluminum like a steel spacer would if I had any of it run out or something. but ill change them to steel spacers tonight or this weekend before I solder. I really appreciate it Cogsy.

been trying to think of an easy way to keep it all squeezed together when brazing. what do you think about some steel rebar wire twisted around it in 3 places like where the spacers are? do you think it would get to hot and break? I'm sure copper wire would.

its so small but I could get a little bite on the bottom with the old drill press vice I often use just for brazing in but then the top would need something to hold it so it doesn't make a V shape from clamping at the bottom only.

 

[CFLBob]

In jewelry making, steel wire is pretty commonly used to hold things together for silver soldering. Stuff like this:
https://www.riogrande.com/product/stainless-steel-round-wire-for-handling-and-binding/503076gp
(just looked it up for an example - the stuff I have isn't stainless and was treated with something to leave a brown finish)

 

[werowance]

Bob, thanks for that. now that I think of it I believe the wife has some stainless steel wire like that in the house. ill have to read the label and make sure what its made of and maybe even do a test run on something else with it. since I posted earlier I also thought about some stainless steel zip ties I have. they look like the kind you use for cv joint boot repair on a car that I used to re clamp down a heat shield on an exhaust pipe on the car. might give one of those a test burn as well to see.

 

[JohnBDownunder]

Hi Werowance,
You said "the reamed holes are very nice and tight. was difficult to get them pushed through by hand, i hope that keeps things straight when brazing."
My thought was if that is true where is the solder going to go? My understanding is that it needs a few thou clearance. I would possibly try a small chamfer on the hole ends and a few strokes with a small triangular file edge in three spots around the bore. Shouldn't affect the fit but give the solder somewhere to go.
Others with more experience than I will guide you IF you have not already soldered.
Looks good so far though.
Regards,
John B