Werowance attempts Upshur Vertical Single

[Art K]

Sorry, I didn't notice that I was auto corrected. That should be 450 rpm's not romo's.
Art

 

[werowance]

a little more progress. top plate done and side plates started as a pair last night

 

[werowance]

it was a wonderful weekend, warm and sunny for mid November in Virginia. so for that reason I didn't spend much time inside the shop, instead I helped my brother saw barn siding on the sawmill and did as much as I could outside. that said I did finish up the side plates with the exception of the slot for the cam gear and the hole for the oil breather. I will wait until I am a little further along to make those cuts incase I need to adjust them any. the locktight held up well and both pieces were cut as one then heated to separate. I used the mini kant twist clamps to keep them held together as well during machining. you will see the heated locktight on one side and the other piece I cleaned it up.

Art K, I believe it was your build who said you moved the oil breather because of the mess it made? do you have some pictures of where you re-located it to or suggestions that I might consider on my build for relocating it?

werowance,
I haven't been on this forum for a while but saw you were starting to build the Upshur Vertical single. This was my first engine. Mine has run great for years and I took it apart this summer to do a rebuild on it.
I used the stock I had. This is what I found when I dissassembled it. I am planning to replace the bearings as well as the crank and rod. I am planning to use a bronze bushing this time. It's about .04 oblong and also the crank is undersized. I don't remember what steel I used but the new one will be 1144. Here is my earlier article on HMEM.
https://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/threads/my-first-engine.18599/#post-245774
The way I had it set up it would spin 7500 rpm I used a fractional bearing for the cam and metric for the crank. Pulled out the inner seal on the inside and used splash lube. I had a leaded steel sleeve in the aluminum cylinder. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
Art

 

[Art K]

I moved it back to where it should have been in the first place. I originally didn't like the location, thought it cluttered up the side of the engine and moved it behind the cam, the worst place I could have come up with I might add. All the oil the rod picked up went right up the breather. It does make an excellent oil change hole though.
Art

 

[Art K]

Looking at the last photo, if your aluminum stock is thicker than Hamilton specs you might want to make sure the rod clears it. As my redesign, the crank cleared but not with the rod installed. It is quite tight inside there. The .040" oblong in the rod was enough that the rod didn't quite clear the cylinder and the cam, worn as it was.
Art

 

[werowance]

Looking at the last photo, if your aluminum stock is thicker than Hamilton specs you might want to make sure the rod clears it. As my redesign, the crank cleared but not with the rod installed. It is quite tight inside there. The .040" oblong in the rod was enough that the rod didn't quite clear the cylinder and the cam, worn as it was.
Art

aluminum stock is the thickness the plans call for. the top plate is within allowable thickness but not as thick as maximum thickness. but the side plates are .250.

and on the note of side and front/back plates, last night I was squaring up the front/back and managed to get them wrong. must have cocked in my vice or something. one side was 1.997 and the other 2.010 a very noticible difference when compared to the sides. no saving those. so I glued up 2 more and clamped them last night and went to bed.

also I realized the oil drain hole which is labled breather side which I mistook for just breather was on the side plate which I could have done that drill/thread already. so its the back plate that has the breather hole. will have to read on and see how the breather is attached as there are no threads for that hole. I guess just lock tighted in.

 

[Art K]

If the breather is like mine it may just be pressed in with loctite as insurance.
Art

 

[werowance]

Looking at the last photo, if your aluminum stock is thicker than Hamilton specs you might want to make sure the rod clears it.
Art

Art, I stand corrected, the side plates were .250 and the plans called for .125 as I discovered this weekend. so I milled them down to the .125 as called for. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I thought the plans called for .250 all the way around.

I havnt had much time in the shop lately. Truck repairs (still on going) and thanksgiving and such. but this weekend I managed to get the front and back plates made, the side plates milled to correct thickness and a bottom plate cut and squared up. on the front and rear plates I plan to drill and ream those while bolted together to the sides and top / bottom as if the crank case was built from solid. I figure I will get a better line bore that way. bottom plate is .313 thick where the plans called for .250 but said could be thicker. my ball bearings from boca bearings arrived and for a pack of 10 was cheaper than I could order a single one on ebay from them.

 

[Art K]

Yeah we had 13 people in our house for a good chunk of time Fri -Sat. It was good to have all the in-laws in town that we usually visit instead. It's also good to have the house back to normal. Good luck getting the truck sorted out, Its never fun to have vehicle problems.
I think I had some misconceived notion they were .157 I don't see a problem with the plates being thicker you just have to compensate for it. Were you going to use bearings on the cam and crank? or just the cam. I used an 8mm ID bearing on my crank so that I didn't have to push it on the whole length of the shaft, and I could still use the .3125 shaft size. The beauty of this hobby is that you can modify it any way you want, or not.

 

[werowance]

I'm using bearings for the cam and crank. the boca are for the crank and for the cam I'm using the same rc car bearings I used for for the piston rod on the Webster that I did. (which were not in the plans but I managed to find some small enough for). truck is back together and at the alignment shop this morning and after that should all be done... I hope anyway. ball joints, tie rod ends etc. then the change oil notice came on this morning on the way to the alignment shop. guess Ill be back underneath it again this weekend for a little while lol.

 

[Art K]

I have to admit that I've done that job before but on a 140 series Volvo more than 2 decades back. Were you planning to have splash lube and pull the inside seals out? I would suggest making up a tool to push in the seals especially the id ones on the crank & cam. I must admit to ruining the cam bearings on my Val engine and having to send for more from Boca. Mainly so you are only pressing on the appropriate bearing race. Vals cam bearings are 5mm ID 10mm OD so very small & delicate, It didn't take much to have them notchy and glitchy.
Art

 

[werowance]

on the cam bearings I have already attempted to remove the seal on one of them and ruined it. fortunately they come in 3 per pack on those. I may test 1 of the crank bearings as well but if it doesn't want to remove ill just leave the seals in place. maybe pin prick a few small holes in it to allow oil seepage?

on another note, I was shoping for some material to attempt my first 1 piece crank from. seems 1144 is the material suggested in a lot of builds I see. on that note I don't seem to be finding 1144 in flat bar stock on my initial quick shoping search for it. if it doesn't come in flat stock - I don't want to mill down round stock to flat then what other material might be suggested as a substitution?

 

[Art K]

I have to say that 1144 is the preferred choice for a crank. I made mine with round stock and rather than adding the woodruff key Hamilton suggests I machined it from round adding the counter weights.

This is a photo of my crank, connecting rod, piston. I had crankcase limitations so I needed the narrowed portion on the outside diameter. I think that if you do it in round with some counter weight you won't regret it.
Art

 

[werowance]

drilled the holes in the base last night and started looking at the radiused corners. not sure how i can do those? i mean i can take this new to me used set of radius gauges and mark the radius in blue and use the sander to make them but thats not really a machined true radius. now i realize that the radius are optional and purely for looks but how would you radius them in production if it needed to be precise? normally i would have had the hole drilled exactly center of what the radius should be and just use a dowel in a plate and move back and fourth and mill it that way but the hole isnt center of the radius as per plans. i guess what i am saying is yeah ill probably take the easy way and sand it till it looks good but what are the more profesional ways it should be done that you all can tell me so i can learn?

 

[Brian Rupnow]

I have a big stationary vertical belt sander that is used to make that kind of radius. It takes a bit of practice and a keen eye but all of my radiused parts are done that way. If you are looking for a true radius as per the drawing, use a drafting template with a 1/4" hole in it, position it adjacent to the two sides and use a scriber to mark the radius first.

 

[werowance]

ah ok i see almost like drilling the hole dead center of the radius but using another sacrafical plate and attaching this part to that plate and drilling the hole in that sacrafical plate to pivit on the dowel

 

[awake]

Radius could be machined precisely using a rotary table, but it would be a lot of set up - resetting for each corner. Alternately, some DRO's have the ability to guide you in approximating a radius using a series of cuts - or you can calculate the positions and do them manually, but again very tedious. The resulting approximation needs only a bit of filing or sanding to smooth out the ridges.

Of course, there's always CNC ...

 

[Brian Rupnow]

No, I do it freehand. I will post a picture of my belt sander and that may make things a bit clearer. I built this many years ago when I was building hotrod chassis, for cleaning up the edges of flame cut brackets.

 

[werowance]

i wasnt saying free hand when i was describing what i took from your post Brian. what i took from it is to make another plate just like the one im working with except on the corners move that hole to the center of that radius. then bolt the real part to that plate using the other 4 screw holes. then i have a plate i put in my mill vice which has a rod or dowel sticking up that i use to pivit on with that hole that is drilled dead center of the radius. that way i get a precise enough radius. ive seen you do it but i just cant find a picture to describe what im talking about. i to also have a belt sander with disk sander on the side with a table that i have used before and also i can use the same type of setup with a pivit pin on it as well but its just easier done in the mill vice and do it there. i hope i can find a picture soon and post it.

 

[awake]

i wasnt saying free hand when i was describing what i took from your post Brian. what i took from it is to make another plate just like the one im working with except on the corners move that hole to the center of that radius. then bolt the real part to that plate using the other 4 screw holes. then i have a plate i put in my mill vice which has a rod or dowel sticking up that i use to pivit on with that hole that is drilled dead center of the radius. that way i get a precise enough radius. ive seen you do it but i just cant find a picture to describe what im talking about. i to also have a belt sander with disk sander on the side with a table that i have used before and also i can use the same type of setup with a pivit pin on it as well but its just easier done in the mill vice and do it there. i hope i can find a picture soon and post it.

Yes, that should work. Mind you, Brian can get all four corners finished on that monster of a sander before you or I could finish preparing the fixturing plate.