Welcome to the history room

[Tin Falcon]

This sub fora is intended as place to pass on and discuss machining , industrial and Model engine building history. A place to post links of old machining books ,pictures of old tool factories old tool catalogs etc. Also pics of National historic sites that are metal working related. you get the picture.
Tin

 

[Philjoe5]

Great idea Tin.

I've attached a pdf file for the patent of a Roberts Water motor. I've managed to acquire one in very good condition and plan to restore it to working condition this winter.

It is designed very much like a duplex injection pump except it operates on water rather than steam pressure.

Phil

View attachment Roberts water motor.pdf

 

[GWRdriver]

Yes, good idea.

 

[ShopShoe]

Tin,

What an excellent idea! At first visit a subject that appeals to me would be a thread that provides capsule biographical information about some of the names I have been learning about since I started visiting here.

I don't mean an exhaustive list of everyone in the hobby, this forum. or in industry, but I would like to know more about the people that have been referenced again and again. Names that spring to my mind (most likely mis-spelled as I write this) are Elmer Verbrug and Rudy Kouphout. Add Dave Gingery and the publisher Lindsay

My starter questions:

When were (are) they active?
What did they specialize in?
What is known about their projects?
What is known about their tools and shop?
Any memorable quotations?
Is there a relevant archive that can be linked?
Is any work on public display?
If their legacy is available as purchasable material or in the public domain, who here has built one of their models or used their ideas in a new design?

Maybe this isn't feasible, but historically I am interested in the people as well as the hardware.

--ShopShoe

 

[robcas631]

This sub fora is intended as place to pass on and discuss machining , industrial and Model engine building history. A place to post links of old machining books ,pictures of old tool factories old tool catalogs etc. Also pics of National historic sites that are metal working related. you get the picture.
Tin

What started the mill or lathe? A Blacksmith with a file?

 

[Herbiev]

A blacksmith with a sharp cold chisel to make the file?

 

[FSG]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudslay

As far as I've been able to find, Mr. Maudslay was the man who started the progression from mere good handwork to real precision. He invented the micrometer, was the first to combine the leadscrew, change gears, and slide rest to make the modern precision machine tool. He struck out on his own because his cheapass boss wouldn't give him enough of a raise to support a family, and became the foremost innovator of the technologies that were crucial to the industrial revolution. Even today's super high precision CNC whizbang gagets are merely embellishments of his fundamental designs. Watt stood on his shoulders, yet few know of him. Books about him are astronomically expensive, and few libraries even have copies that can be read in their facilities. Our hero has been supressed, and maybe we should try to bring his story into the light.

 

[ShopShoe]

philjoe5,

Saw you asking about your Roberts Water Motor on the other place. I'm not a a member there so I am posting this link about water engines and water motors here:

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/waterengine/waterengine.htm

I have been intrigued by these, especially the three-cylinder versions, and was playing with the idea of making one sometime: I think the grandkids would like to see something like this running off the garden hose on a hot day.

--ShopShoe

 

[BillWood]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudslay

As far as I've been able to find, Mr. Maudslay was the man who started the progression from mere good handwork to real precision. He invented the micrometer, was the first to combine the leadscrew, change gears, and slide rest to make the modern precision machine tool. He struck out on his own because his cheapass boss wouldn't give him enough of a raise to support a family, and became the foremost innovator of the technologies that were crucial to the industrial revolution. Even today's super high precision CNC whizbang gagets are merely embellishments of his fundamental designs. Watt stood on his shoulders, yet few know of him. Books about him are astronomically expensive, and few libraries even have copies that can be read in their facilities. Our hero has been supressed, and maybe we should try to bring his story into the light.

I havent read it but am looking out for a cheaper copy of this book - looks like it might be a good one.
Henry Maudslay & the Pioneers of the Machine Age Paperback – November, 2002


by John Cantrell (Editor), Gillian Cookson (Editor)




http://www.amazon.com/dp/0752427660/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


Has anybody read it ? If yes any comments ? Worth a look ?

Bill

 

[goldstar31]

I sort of agree but after a lot more years of study, I tend to go back further to an earlier time of Megalithic Man and his 'Yard' and things like the work of professor Thom and surprisingly, into the Book of Kings and our Mr Tubal Cain and perhaps the legendary Hiram Abif and certainly real Hiram, King of Tyre.

What has to be remembered is that the so called Great Inventors were only developing from the great stone masons of the past who built the cathedrals and perhaps the Arab influence on Western Art.

I lived- or I still do, live on the banks of the River Tyne where much of the Industrial Revolution came but it was all really as Shakespeare described it of literature- a Nest of Singing Birds. Stephenson- George? Did he really do it all himself? Well, the railways- all 4 feet 8 and a half inches? Certainly not the Lad from Canny Wylam on the Tyne but Roman chariot gauge. Who was before the guys who made my boundary wall- ex from Mr Hadrian- I haven't a clue but possibly from Egypt.

Don't be carried away with others- including me. Read it up, spend a little money and enjoy every minute of your studies. Go to Europe, visit the cathedrals, go to the Alhambra, go to Ancient Roman and - my Northumberland with its ancients Druidical heritage.

Meantime, the Compliments of the Season

Norman

 

[rlukens]

This may be too "modern" as history goes.
Several years ago while traveling through Vermont, I was lucky enough to stumble on this: "The American Precision Museum, housed in the original Robbins & Lawrence Armory, now holds the largest collection of historically significant machine tools in the nation."
I spent an entire afternoon there and could have spent days. If your anyway near it, I highly recommend it.

http://www.americanprecision.org/

 

[oilmac]

Henry Maudsley was a wonderful man, and his works at Lambeth in London was the training ground of many brilliant engineers who were his pupils, Amongst others who worked in his factory were Naysmith the scotsman who invented the pillar shaping machine (The normal design of shaper still in use today,) Others were Whitworth who invented the travelling head shaper, And the greatest of all Richard Roberts, who invented the planing machine,
It is of note that the production of true flat faces in those far off days was a stumbling block to engine and machine production, At this time the planing of large engine components of a heavy nature was a real bugbear, Until the invention of the Wall slotting Machine in the works of James Watt at Birmingham, It is sad that the true inventor of this machine , plus the horizontal wall planing machine was William Murdock, a Scotsmam who was one of Watts colleagues, These machines enabled the machining of large castings which were clamped to a stationary bed plate, or in the case of the wall slotting machine , the castings were mounted on a table which was fed past the travelling tool block, As there was not in those days enough horse power to move heavy castings back and forward on the table of a conventional pattern of planing machine.
Watts sons greatly overlooked any of his many inventions in the story of Bolton & Watt Some years later in the works Of Maudsley Sons & field, another genius W.W. Hulse, ( Who was married to Whitworths daughter) designed and built, a very large combined vertical & horizontal planing machine , combining the best of both of Murdocks two machines , Some of this pattern of planing & slotting machine in an advanced pattern were manufactured up until the early 1960 period, all be it with a modern powerful electrical drive, by Loudon Brothers machine tool builders in Johnstone near Glasgow.
The last big wall slotting machine was scrapped in Paisley Scotland, in 1974, Thus ending the direct link going back to the era of William Murdock, A great shame, this old machine had been constructed by the predecessors of Loudon Brothers a firm called J.McCarthur & Co. Should you folks be able to lay your hands on a superb book Machine Tools by Steed , published about 1965 It tells of the many wonderful things achieved in Maudsleys works. He also seems to have been a jovial happy sort of fellow.

 

[Dubi]

I sort of agree but after a lot more years of study, I tend to go back further to an earlier time of Megalithic Man and his 'Yard' and things like the work of professor Thom and surprisingly, into the Book of Kings and our Mr Tubal Cain and perhaps the legendary Hiram Abif and certainly real Hiram, King of Tyre.

What has to be remembered is that the so called Great Inventors were only developing from the great stone masons of the past who built the cathedrals and perhaps the Arab influence on Western Art.

I lived- or I still do, live on the banks of the River Tyne where much of the Industrial Revolution came but it was all really as Shakespeare described it of literature- a Nest of Singing Birds. Stephenson- George? Did he really do it all himself? Well, the railways- all 4 feet 8 and a half inches? Certainly not the Lad from Canny Wylam on the Tyne but Roman chariot gauge. Who was before the guys who made my boundary wall- ex from Mr Hadrian- I haven't a clue but possibly from Egypt.

Don't be carried away with others- including me. Read it up, spend a little money and enjoy every minute of your studies. Go to Europe, visit the cathedrals, go to the Alhambra, go to Ancient Roman and - my Northumberland with its ancients Druidical heritage.

Meantime, the Compliments of the Season

Norman

Lovely post, food for thought. A very happy Christmas to you and your family despite the virus circumstances.

 

[goldstar31]

Dubi

Thank you for your kind response and may I wish you and your family not only a very Happy Christmas- or perhaps the Christ Mass and a better New Year.
I can see a little bright light at the end of the tunnel with Covid- 19 with the news that vaccines seem to be anywhere successful between 70+ and 90+ success rates and moreover are going to be relatively cheap to get. As a rather large shareholder in Astra Zeneca( ahem?), I'm glad that costs in poorer countries should enable them to have a safer present and a future. I simply cannot wait as a very vulnerable( and venerable???) old 90 year old to have a *** in my arm- perhaps 2021 arrives.
Somewhat selfishly, my thoughts are for those like my son in law who is a senior consultant heart surgeon working in a Covid-19 hospital ward.
I did get an invitation to go to the Far East and Indonesia included. I wanted to see the attractions of further travel. I managed HongKong and onto Fiji- and regrettably that is that.
You see my eyes are now so poor. So I hope that I have made sense despite age and infirmities but wish you well.

Norman

 

[Dubi]

Dubi

Thank you for your kind response and may I wish you and your family not only a very Happy Christmas- or perhaps the Christ Mass and a better New Year.
I can see a little bright light at the end of the tunnel with Covid- 19 with the news that vaccines seem to be anywhere successful between 70+ and 90+ success rates and moreover are going to be relatively cheap to get. As a rather large shareholder in Astra Zeneca( ahem?), I'm glad that costs in poorer countries should enable them to have a safer present and a future. I simply cannot wait as a very vulnerable( and venerable???) old 90 year old to have a *** in my arm- perhaps 2021 arrives.
Somewhat selfishly, my thoughts are for those like my son in law who is a senior consultant heart surgeon working in a Covid-19 hospital ward.
I did get an invitation to go to the Far East and Indonesia included. I wanted to see the attractions of further travel. I managed HongKong and onto Fiji- and regrettably that is that.
You see my eyes are now so poor. So I hope that I have made sense despite age and infirmities but wish you well.

Norman

Good morning Norman, It crossed my mind last night, after reading your very interesting post, that as you may not be able to come this way I could send you photographs that I have taken in the Far East.
If you can send me an e-mail address I will send you photos from Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam, Brunei etc.
warm regards, Dubi.

 

[goldstar31]

I think that Dubi is what w e Westerners call Dubai? I overnighted on my way to a Masonic Meeting in HongKong. I'm a very lowly Provincial Grand Lodge Officer with connections with things 'Oriental' as well as what used to bre called 'India'
Hence the Royal Air Force 31( the Goldstars) motto which translates from the Latin as :-

First in the Indian Skies

Best Wishes

Norman

 

[cds4byu]

Should you folks be able to lay your hands on a superb book Machine Tools by Steed , published about 1965 It tells of the many wonderful things achieved in Maudsleys works. He also seems to have been a jovial happy sort of fellow.

The book "A History of Machine Tools 1700-1910", by W Steeds, is available online for about $40 or £40 from various sellers.

Carl

 

[GrahamJTaylor49]

I sort of agree but after a lot more years of study, I tend to go back further to an earlier time of Megalithic Man and his 'Yard' and things like the work of professor Thom and surprisingly, into the Book of Kings and our Mr Tubal Cain and perhaps the legendary Hiram Abif and certainly real Hiram, King of Tyre.

What has to be remembered is that the so called Great Inventors were only developing from the great stone masons of the past who built the cathedrals and perhaps the Arab influence on Western Art.

I lived- or I still do, live on the banks of the River Tyne where much of the Industrial Revolution came but it was all really as Shakespeare described it of literature- a Nest of Singing Birds. Stephenson- George? Did he really do it all himself? Well, the railways- all 4 feet 8 and a half inches? Certainly not the Lad from Canny Wylam on the Tyne but Roman chariot gauge. Who was before the guys who made my boundary wall- ex from Mr Hadrian- I haven't a clue but possibly from Egypt.

Don't be carried away with others- including me. Read it up, spend a little money and enjoy every minute of your studies. Go to Europe, visit the cathedrals, go to the Alhambra, go to Ancient Roman and - my Northumberland with its ancients Druidical heritage.

Meantime, the Compliments of the Season

Norman

Tubal Cain, the first artificer in metals, and Hiram Abif, and the Temple in Jerusalem. Regards,
W.Bro. Graham T.

 

[goldstar31]

Thanks W/Bro but I'm one of the local Provincial Grand Lodge- but remain a Bro.
S&F

Norman
PPro GPurs

PS

I hadn't realised that you played the sax. Apart from anything e;se, my late wife played bari sax but also a contra bass one. She was a mate of the late Don L. Ashton who also wrote on Stephenson's and Walshaert's Gear.

 

[GrahamJTaylor49]

Thanks W/Bro but I'm one of the local Provincial Grand Lodge- but remain a Bro.
S&F

Norman
PPro GPurs

PS

I hadn't realised that you played the sax. Apart from anything e;se, my late wife played bari sax but also a contra bass one. She was a mate of the late Don L. Ashton who also wrote on Stephenson's and Walshaert's Gear.

Loved playing the Alto and Tenner sax but unfortunately developed severe arthritis in my left wrist and it was agony
to support the instrument so to avoid temptation I sold both instruments. Since then I have had an operation on
the wrist and the surgeon have removed the trapizoid bone and replaced it with some tendon from my lower
arm. The hand / wrist now work beautifully and I'm looking at getting another tenner sax.