Unsure what to do

[Whitehorse]

I am currently contemplating buying a lathe and associated tools, which will represent my first serious attempt at metal working. I have minor experience, very little, but am quite interested in engine building. I am currently unsure if I should make this large investment, $3000, and have no guarantee that it will be worth while. To help make my decision, I have been looking for beginner level projects and engines. If you could please recommend any simple engines that a beginner could complete, it would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance

 

[Cogsy]

Welcome Whitehorse.

Here are a couple of threads you can read for more info :

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f27/geting-started-model-engine-building-8701/

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f27/selecting-first-engine-build-15183/

There are recomendations for easy engines to build in these two threads.

It's a great hobby but can get very addictive. I've only just started but already I've had to put a picture of my wife next to my lathe so I can remember what she looks like...

Have fun!

 

[Whitehorse]

Thank you Cogsy for your reply
Both those threads are very interesting, and I'm certainly starting to consider entering this hobby. Sadly the amount of money is a lot for someone my age, and but I'm right in saying a good large will last many years?
Thanks again

 

[Cogsy]

I assume that a good lathe will last a very long time. I know I've seen posts with 60+ year old lathes in them. You can check this thread if you like : http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f13/show-us-your-lathe-18/

I went for a brand new $700 Chinese mini-lathe and then picked up a mill/drill from a deceased estate for a bargain price. Not sure how long the Chinese lathe will last, but it's doing it's job well for now. Another thing to consider is the cost of tooling. The cost of things like cutters, drill chuck, boring bar, measuring equipment, 4 jaw chuck, etc can also add up quickly. I don't want to talk you out of it, but you should know there is always something else to buy in this hobby.

Having said all that, my other hobby is riding dirt bikes. With the cost of the bike, trailer, helmet, riding gear, etc I probably spent $6500 that I couldn't afford. Now every time I go riding I'm up for fuel for the car and bike, food and drink. A weekend ride costs around $150. Plus, I probably spend at least $800-1000 on tyres and maintenance through the year.

Hobbies are not cheap, but at least with this one you can build up your tooling over time, as you can afford it, and unlike my bike (which will be outdated and virtually worthless in 5 years) most of it you only have to buy once.

 

[skyline1]

Thank you Cogsy for your reply
Both those threads are very interesting, and I'm certainly starting to consider entering this hobby. Sadly the amount of money is a lot for someone my age, and but I'm right in saying a good large will last many years?
Thanks again

If you look after it a good lathe could outlive you, My old Myford was made in 1953 which makes it older than me, It has needed a fair bit of refurb over the years, it was in a terrible state when I got it. but it's still going strong.

And by lathe standards mine is a youngster. There are many Model Engineers using machines dating from the early 1900s or even older sometimes and turning out superb work on them

Regards Mark

 

[chbeyer]

Hi Whitehorse,

you don't necessarily need to spend 3.000$ - well at least not at once ...

Before buying some tools you should make up your mind what kind of work you want to do in which scale. It makes quite a difference if you are in clocks or motorbikes

Generally very good used lathes can be purchased on e-bay, craigs list etc. Once you made up your mind about the 'good size' you should start checking the usual sources for any lathes in your area.

Check them out before bidding together with someone who has some practise in lathe working to make sure the overall conditions of the machine are OK and the price is accordingly.

Tools in general are expensive so it is also nice to buy a lathe with the usual tools alltogether. If you just get a 'naked' lathe you will soon discover that all the tools you need or want to have will cost the same amount as the lathe itself.

If you don't now if you are burning for metal-works maybe attending an evening class ore something similar would be wise too and maybe avoid disappointment ?

cheers
christoph

 

[lensman57]

Hi,

Before parting with a lot of cash you need to find out if you could actually have the ability to operate a lathe or a mill. why don't you find out if there are any model engineering clubs and society near you and give them a visit, they might even agree for you to get your hands on a working machine. If you are still interested then you could take a few night classes and learn the basics. Only then you should consider spending money on a mill and lathe.
Depending on what you want to make, the size of the projects will dictate the size of the lathe and mill. The bigger the better, I don't agree with this 100%, a lot could be achieved on a miniature lathe or mill such as a Sherline or a Taig and they take up a lot less space than their bigger cousins, are portable and have no fancy requirement for power supply.
Some of the more recent Chinese made machines from Sieg such as their SX2 mill and super c3 lathes have reasonable capacity and relatively quite affordable.
Do your homework before plunging in to buying.

Regards,

A.G

 

[Tin Falcon]

How one gets in this hobby and machine chooses varies greatly from person to person. very few buy a shop full of tools to start out. Maybe the best thing for you is buy a premachined kit.you will have to paint and assemble it. but no machining required.See details in the GSME thread above. If you are patent there are good deals on used equipment out there. I have heard of mini mills and lathes selling in the $250-350 range each used. I got a good deal on my shaper but I have seen them going for $650 to $1200 for the same machine I have. condition location etc.
you should be able to get started for a few hundred if you do your home work.

 

[gus]

Gus been fascinated with steam engines as a young 8 year old kid.50 years later ,he bought a SteamCo Mini Steam Plant. Took apart the oscillating engine and from there I got hooked.Bought a Japanese Mini Lathe and a cheapy China Drill Press and built my "monkey see,monkey do".

From here went on to build various engines. Added on a Japanese Mini Vertical Mill to expand my scope of projects.Today I am building Glow Plug Engine. This hobby is very interesting,rewarding and also highly addictive.

 

[Whitehorse]

Thank you all for your insight, I have decided to go ahead with my purchase. One final question, to start with will hss tools be suitable for all aluminium operations, or should I also purchase carbide tools?
Thank you

 

[Cogsy]

I think I've read somewhere that HSS tools give a better surface finish than carbide, but I may be mistaken on that.

I know I have used HSS with great success on aluminium. Check out my recently completed engine in my avatar or in the finished projects section - the cylinder is alli and machined with HSS tools.

 

[lensman57]

Thank you all for your insight, I have decided to go ahead with my purchase. One final question, to start with will hss tools be suitable for all aluminium operations, or should I also purchase carbide tools?
Thank you

Hi,

I use both, hss is easier on your machine but you need to watch your speed and feed rate or you will blunt it in no time, needing a regrind. The best compromise for me, a relative newbie, is an indexable carbide tool and tool bit such as a dcmt type bit. If the lathe you have purchased has enough power and rigidity then carbide will be a very good choice and provided you do not abuse the tool the bit should last a very long time.

Regards,

A.G

 

[Tin Falcon]

HSS is fine. IMHO superior to carbide for most applications on a small hobby lathe . HSS steel will cut mild steel as well. Most hobby lathes just do not have the power to make good use of carbide.
in the days of old carbon steel was the workhorse steel for cutting tools. and drill rod tools are quite adequate for brass aluminum and 12l14 as long as you slow down the speed.
so what are you buying.

Also what is your location maybe there is someone in your area that can lend a hand mentor and share some shop time and space to help you see what you are getting into.
tin

 

[gus]

Thank you all for your insight, I have decided to go ahead with my purchase. One final question, to start with will hss tools be suitable for all aluminium operations, or should I also purchase carbide tools?
Thank you

I use hss tool bits to cut aluminium.To get better finish I apply Tapmatic Tapping Oil for aluminium on cutting edge.Prevents aluminium clogging up cutting edge.

Littlemachineshop sells HSS tools bits to cut mild steel.I use same to cut aluminium.LMS has offers on their lathe which includes necessary tools.

Happy turning.

 

[albertorc19]

I think that you have a really good budget for a start. As a newcomer to this hobby I've found this youtube channel very useful: mrpete222. This gentleman has 100+ videos on machine tool operations, he has recorded a couple of nice videos on how to sharpen your HSS cutting tools. I know there're a lot of books on the subject but seeing that on video can be very useful also.

 

[Whitehorse]

Thank you all once again, it looks like I'll be starting with HSS for now. One final question before I think I have enough to finalise my purchase, which size hss is suitable, as I am noticing varying sizes. I am thinking that 1/2" will be the size I need?
Thanks once again

 

[sssfox]

Any given type works the same no matter what size you use. Larger pieces cost more, but you can extend them further from the tool post. Smaller pieces cost less and require less grinding.

Use whatever fits your lathe tool post and your budget. I have everything from 1/8" round to 3/4" square.

 

[Tin Falcon]

that depends on what size lathe you are buying. IMHO 1/2 is too large for most of my needs . I do use everything from 1/8 to 1/2 but 1/4 to 3/8 is what I use the most.
Tin

 

[rake60]

The best size of HSS tooling is dependent on the lathes tool post center,
assuming the tool post is a rigid 4 position type.

It is easiest to buy HSS tools that are on center in your tool post.

Smaller tools can be shimmed up to put them on center.
Tools that are too large have to be ground down to achieve center.
That is no fun at all...

If the tool post is a Quick Change none of that means a thing.
You just adjust the tool holder to set the center.

(I had my 9 X 20 lathe six for years before I bought a Quick Change tool post.)

Rick

 

[sssfox]

Maybe your first step should be to buy some 1/4" blanks, a small bench grinder with good quality wheels and watch the mrpete222 videos on sharpening. No matter which lathe you choose, 1/4" tools will fit and you are going to need to learn sharpening early on.

Make sure you get a pair of safety goggles, too.