Trying out metric

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Surprisingly car tyres (tires) use a mix of measurements ie. metric i believe for the width, percentage for the wall and wheel size in inches i might have got these definitions in the wrong order, but there are in the UK, at least these three measurements, i don't know about the rest of the globe though!
Regards Max............
 
And Schraeder valves are, as far as I know, still 5/16" x 40 tpi.
 
tel said:
And Schraeder valves are, as far as I know, still 5/16" x 40 tpi.
Tel that would throw another thread type into the pot ie. 5/16 x 40 tpi = ME (model engineering thread) interesting!
Regards Max..............
 
Who'd ever thunk the US would have something in comon with Libira and Burma, the only other countries in the world who have not converted to the metric system, which is quite annoying here because I mostly try to live in the the metric system, but they have made it very hard.

I live in a big metro area and couldn't even find a metric drill bit set.
 
Just bought some ally bar off ebay for some reason they advertise the bar with the diameter in inches and length mm ???.

Stew
 
tel said:
And Schraeder valves are, as far as I know, still 5/16" x 40 tpi.

Schraeder valves are specials to Schraeder

External Thread: 0.305 in OD, thread root diameter 0.302 in x 32 tpi (threads per inch)
Internal Thread: 0.209 in OD x 36 tpi.

John S.
 
John Stevenson said:
Schraeder valves are specials to Schraeder

External Thread: 0.305 in OD, thread root diameter 0.302 in x 32 tpi (threads per inch)
Internal Thread: 0.209 in OD x 36 tpi.

John S.

However, from my experience an ME 5/16 x 32 thread will "fit" a Shraeder valve connector despite 5/16" supposedly being .3125" O/D and the Shraeder OD being .305", as John points out.

On this dimensions thing; what's with drawings I've seen in my recent surfing that have imperial fractions, decimal inches and mm on the same page? Please don't as me to find one I've been to too many websites in the past two months since I joined the model engineering fraternity.
 
On this dimensions thing; what's with drawings I've seen in my recent surfing that have imperial fractions, decimal inches and mm on the same page? Please don't as me to find one I've been to too many websites in the past two months since I joined the model engineering fraternity.

It is possible, a drawing primerilly in fractional inches may have the centres of a pair of gears in decimal inches as they are unlikely to fit an exact fraction and maybe a metric spark plug thread. Also some drawings use decimal inches to show where the tollerance is more exact than just using fractions.

But on the otherhand it may just be bad practice ;)

Jason
 
There are many factors that effect the style, quality readability etc of drawings or prints.
1) Professional standards change over time
2) Standards are different in different parts of the world.
3) Some of the prints are done by trained professionals
a)Some self taught Rudy Kouhoupt for one
b) Or professionally trained.
4)Then some / many are amateur hobbyists
who may be professional draftsmen/designers or not.
There are many fine prints out there that were originally done the old fashioned way by hand some digitized.
and then of course Alibre cad and others has put parametric design into the hands of the armature hobbyist.
There are also a fair number of redraws out there. Such classics like Lucy and the Macabe runner that were compact one sheet originals have been turned to one or two parts per page drawings by students. Free prints off the net are great but sometimes quality is lost.
The projects in the old popular mechanics mags are great but they pack lots of info and detail in a small space.
There is no real right or wrong style of print as long as the info is complete but some do need some thinkin' .
Like I have mentioned before a re-draw sketch of each part on a 3 x 5 file card helps you understand the part, and is a ready reference at the machine.
Tin
Tin
 
John Stevenson said:
Schraeder valves are specials to Schraeder

External Thread: 0.305 in OD, thread root diameter 0.302 in x 32 tpi (threads per inch)
Internal Thread: 0.209 in OD x 36 tpi.

John S.

Oops, I meant 32 tpi. Thanks John. The odd few I've made fittings for I just use the 5/16 x 32 tap.
 
I prefer the imperial system but am slowly thinking of going metric for fastners as they are now easier to source.

If you do a wikepedia search 'Inch definitions' the ensuing answer makes very interesting reading suggesting that the unit of 25.4 mm to the inch is not correct as it makes a yard too long?

Regards,

IDP
 
IDP said:
If you do a wikepedia search 'Inch definitions' the ensuing answer makes very interesting reading suggesting that the unit of 25.4 mm to the inch is not correct as it makes a yard too long?

Regards,

IDP

Maybe its' all happened because US legislated 39.37 inches = 1 metre in 1866. Whereas it is more like 39.370147 inches.

With an error of 2 parts per million I can't get overly excited, (makes me want another *** :p).

Best Regards
Bob
 
MakMov said:
I live in a big metro area and couldn't even find a metric drill bit set.
That's because there is no such thing as a "standard" metric drill bit set.
 
The theory behind the metric system is that ten's are somehow "natural." Were that the case, harmonious scales would be based on 10 rather than 12 or 16. Just try using a base-10 system to analyze fluid flows, Earthquake propagation, or Kuanda-amplification of aerodynamics! Mind you, I grew up (until about age 10) using metric and "converted" to American inch/pounds/seconds back when the standard of American measurement was 1/128th's of an inch.

The original definition of the metre was to have been 10,000,000 metres from the equator to the North Pole. They screwed up THAT calculation. The kilogram was to be 1000 cubic-centimeters of water. They screwed up THAT calculation. The reason temperature is measured in Celsius degrees today rather than Centigrade degrees is that they screwed up the definition of ZERO and did not correct THAT until the early-1970's. In short, the metric system is a SET of screw-ups.

In most instances I care not whether metric measure or Imperial or American inch-based measure is used. My specific gripes have to do with the units derived from Pascals (N/m²). The "mesh" is wrong! The units provide no "feel" for the measurement being made.

I was the chief mechanical engineer on the program that developed the modern (late-1980's/early-1990's) automotive airbag restraint systems. [This sounds really impressive until you realize that (A) airbags are chemical rather than mechanical, and (C) I spent nearly three years working on a project that was designed to blow up in my face!] I worked with Japanese, French, and German engineers (among others) who had never used anything but metric measures. They would screw up their pressure/stress calculations because even they would get "confused" by the size of their answers. It's kind of like trying to report football (real or American) in inches -- the numbers easily became meaningless and someone exploded their unit (or failed to inflate the bag) as a result. In 1998, we lost a multi-billion dollar Mars Lander system because a French engineer lost track of the powers-of-ten in their answer for an airbag pressurization!

I have fought with metric screwthreads since the late-1960's. Until 2001, there were five "standard systems" of metric screwthreads (meaning major diameter and pitch) -- French ISO, British Standard, DIN, JIC, and American ISO. You have no idea how much "fun" I had installing RADAR domes for NATO in the early-1970's. Even today with "standardized" metric screwthread major diameters and pitches, there are still five different set of tolerances and allowances in use. If you buy a (say) M6 bolt from a German supplier and a M6 nut from an Asian (JIC-using) supplier, there is a 43% probability that the nut will not mate properly with the bolt!

Making matters worse from my knothole, changing from a "standard" metric screwthread to a "fine" metric screwthread of the same major diameter only gains me 3% on the strength/bending properties of that connection. The (currently) Unified National thread series (which derives from the WWI vintage "American-British-Canadian" standardization) gains me 15% in connection properties when I change from coarse to fine or from fine to extra-fine. [This was actually a requirement set out for the "ABC" committee by no less than Herbert Hoover!] Further, the "standard" (and "fine") pitches chosen for metric screwthreads are too fine for direct application in low-shear-strength materials. You have to use a "thread insert" whenever you face that proposition. [UNC threads work well in most low-shear-strength materials.]

Metric screw users like to claim that their system is simpler in that you only have to subtract the pitch from the major diameter to find the correct tap drill. (A) You can do the same thing using inch-based threads -- just just have to do the division to turn TPI into pitch. (B) The "answer" you get will only give you 62% (on average) of the maximum strength you can get with a properly calculated tap drill! [I have many documents about screwthread strength and tap drill calculation posted at http://www.scribd.com/Lew Merrick if anyone is interested.] Yes, this works well in most instances, but it does not work when you get into strength/mass critical applications.

Otherwise obsolete measures such as the league, furlong, and stone are important to understand. A league was the distance a Roman Legion would march in an hour. A furlong was the distance a Roman Legion was expected to run in five minutes. A stone was the mass an underfed peasant was expected to be able to "pick and place" all day long without keeling over and dying. Knowing about how these measures came into being gives a designer an understanding that is missing from more "modern" units of measure.

What "killed" the metric system here in the U.S. was the advent of the pocket calculator. Dividing by 386.35 (in/sec² for 1g) is now no harder than dividing by 10.
 
Lew_Merrick_PE said:
In 1998, we lost a multi-billion dollar Mars Lander system because a French engineer lost track of the powers-of-ten in their answer for an airbag pressurization!

Poor guy was probably as confused as the rest of the world having been brought up on the French cgs system rather than the cobbled together mess of the current Metric ISO system with its' politically correct but difficult to feel numbers.

Best Regards
Bob

 
rake60 said:
If you will excuse me now I need to go and recalibrate my adjustable Crescent
Wrench. It is Imperial of course and I need it to work on my Suzuki Tracker
tomorrow. Converting it to metric may keep me up all night! ;)
Rick, the 1967 JC Whitney catalog had a "6 inch adjustable wrench" listed for $0.75. Towards the back of the catalog under "metric tools" they had a "15 cm adjustable metric wrench" listed for $2.25. I've always wondered how many people bough the "adjustable metric wrench."
 
Dan Rowe said:
I read your Brief History of the screw thread, very interesting. You did not mention William Sellers who was the first to propose standard threads in the US in 1864.
Dan, The reason I "ignore" Sellers is that he was far from the first person to propose standardization of threads. Virtually everything in his proposal was "researched" from Whitworth's work. {As Tom Lehrer sang so well, "Who made me a big success and brought me wealth and fame? Nicholai Ivanovitch Lobachevski was his name. In one word he taught me the secret to success in mathematics -- Plagiarize, let no one else's work evade your eyes. Remember why the good Lord made your eyes, so don't shade your eyes, but plagiarize, plagiarize, PLAGIARIZE! Only always call it, please, RESEARCH!" [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL4vWJbwmqM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL4vWJbwmqM[/ame]} Where Sellers really screwed up was in concentrating on radial rather than circumferential clearances in fits. Whitworth got it MOSTLY right, Sellers was completely off base.

The reason we have Number screw sizes today is that it was Ben Franklin's proposal to simplify things for the stove industry. Franklin was a "decimalist" -- that's why the #0 screw has a .0600 major diameter rather than .0625. He wanted the progression to be made in .020 increments, but he ran into Poisson's ratio when trying to draw iron -- which is how we ended up with .013 increments for Number sized screws. If you are looking for the first person in the U.S. to propose a standard for screw threads, Ben Franklin is your man.

Sellers got the credit, but the idea had been kicking around for many years with many backers. MY "point" is that we did NOT get a real and enforceable set of standard screw sizes based in functional mechanics until the American-British-Canadian (ABC) Industrialization Council set up for WWI. Not only do I stand by that assertion, I suggest that this was the acme of standards development that should be required study for anyone in engineering or regulatory work.
 
I am not sure where the .039... conversion factor comes from.
Inch to mm - inches x 25.4
mm to inch - mm/25.4

A whole lot less numbers to remember!
 

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