Steam Verses Diesel On the Horseshoe Curve

[rake60]

I live near the Horseshoe Curve section of railroad in Altoona Pennsylvania.

In the 1850's the railroad needed a way to cross the Allegheny Mountains.
John Edgar Thomson and Herman Haupt came up with a way to do that.
They didn't build the rail bed over the mountains, they built the rail beds
within the contours of the mountains.

The Horseshoe Curve was completed in 1854.
It was still a steep climb. Even today, it takes 5 Conrail diesel electric engines
to pull a modern freight train up the grade. (It doesn't mention the 2 pushers).

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysnoJlURJQg&feature=related[/ame]

In the "past modern days of 1945" 2 steam engines could pull a train of their
era up that same grade. Just water up at the bottom and go to work!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVhm3q_zU2E&feature=related[/ame]

Gotta love the power of the steam!

Rick

 

[Stan]

If they got the stack emissions down to EPA standards they wouldn't have enough power to leave the water stop.

 

[Noitoen]

Burning wood is supposed to be "carbon neutral". The co2 emission is balanced by the tree's carbon absorption during it's life :hDe:

 

[Stan]

Noiteon: The green people have been using that argument for years. If it is valid, then burning coal is also carbon neutral since it was once plant life.

 

[smfr]

Noiteon: The green people have been using that argument for years. If it is valid, then burning coal is also carbon neutral since it was once plant life.

Only if you assume that some forests around today will soak up carbon, and then turn into coal to lock up equivalent carbon to that released by the coal you're burning. The whole issue with CO2 rise due to burning fossil fuels is that without humankind, those fossil fuels would have remained underground, their carbon locked safely away. We're pumping that carbon into the atmosphere way faster than it is being sequestered away by natural processes (coal/oil formation, limestone accretion etc.) now.

 

[mu38&Bg#]

I think there's far more tonnage on those diesels than the steamer. If steam had an advantage today, we'd see modern steam engines burning fuel oil. Steam power blows me away.

Didn't the recent volcanic eruptions put human impact on atmosphere at a small scale?

 

[Bernd]

I think there's far more tonnage on those diesels than the steamer. If steam had an advantage today, we'd see modern steam engines burning fuel oil. Steam power blows me away.

You got that one right Greg. Also consider that in the steam days a lot of those cars had friction bearings were as today they all have roller bearings. I remember 5 of us once pushed an empty hopper car across a turnout. Also it was on level track. The car was empty of course, but we won't have been able to do that with car having friction bearings.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with railroad terms. The friction bearing is a piece of bronze that the axle rides in and is supplied with waste cotton soaked in oil for a lubricant. I'm sure all of you know what a roller bearing looks like.

I've been down to the Curve many times in the past. Remember when it was four track and very busy. Sure miss those days.

Bernd

 

[ChooChooMike]

For those of you who are unfamiliar with railroad terms. The friction bearing is a piece of bronze that the axle rides in and is supplied with waste cotton soaked in oil for a lubricant. I'm sure all of you know what a roller bearing looks like.

...supplied with oil from a reservoir containing waste cotton that holds the oil. The cotton waste (basically torn up cotton rags) serves to prevent the oil from splashing about and wicks it to the axle/journal surfaces.

I too am fascinated by steam locomotive power, not that my user name gives that away or anything .... :big:

Seeing the old footage of steam on Horseshoe curve is amazing ! I think there's a viewing platform there now and an upcoming Altoona museum ?? I was in the neighborhood there last year in PA, but didn't have enough time to see it all.

Mike

 

[purpleknif]

There was a company in Akron Ohio a few years back called "American Combustion Engineering (A.C.E.) that designed a "modernized" steam locomotive that used pre-packed and palletized coal and water units. It was supposed to be able to hook up w/diesels too if it led. Guess they finally figured out that steam power is maintainence intensive still. Pre-production drawing sure looked cool though. Might find reference to it on line.

 

[substandard]

There was a company in Akron Ohio a few years back called "American Combustion Engineering (A.C.E.) that designed a "modernized" steam locomotive that used pre-packed and palletized coal and water units. It was supposed to be able to hook up w/diesels too if it led. Guess they finally figured out that steam power is maintainence intensive still. Pre-production drawing sure looked cool though. Might find reference to it on line.

My Grandpa started out on the AT&SF as a engine tender. His job was to sit in the cab of the steam locomotive and maintain the boiler so the locomotive would have a head of steam for when it was needed. The railroad was paying for one man to sit in each idle locomotive, plus the fuel being burnt to keep up the steam. Compared to a diesel that can sit with the engine stopped and be up and running in a matter of a couple of minutes.

The other draw back on the steam was they needed to stop every 100 miles to take on water, so there was not only the added time of the stop but the extra expense of maintaining water towers every 100 miles.

Although I love to feel the rumble of the diesels and the smell of the exhaust, I still wished I had been around to see the days when steam ruled the rails. There is just something about seeing the power and motion of a steam locomotive running the rails.