Shop lights

[Apprentice707]

I replaced the main lighting in my basement workshop a couple of years back with LED tubes purchased from Aldi wow they certainly made a big difference, brighter more economical and no maintenance (Yet). I have also fitted all my machine lights with either LED bulbs or small security type lights, these work very well too.

In addition to the above, I have a selection of task lighting ie anglepoise type lights I have converted to LEDs and these help my old eyes no end.

The lights in my home are also predominately LED's and again work well with a noticeable reduction in my electric bill. I encountered some problems with dimmer circuits so I retained the halogen bulbs and since they are not used a lot don't feel guilty about their power consumption.

On the subject of electric bills, I recently changed my tariff and knocked 17% from my monthly payment. I recommend that everyone reviews their payments annually, any savings help with the cost of model engineering these days (Maybe the subject of another forum???)

Cheers

B

 

[kquiggle]

I recently replaced the old (barely working) tube fluorescent light in my garage workshop. I had been planning to put in better lighting anyway, but when the old light became unreliable I took the plunge and bought a set of four "linkable" LED workshop lights. What a difference! The garage now has bright (but not too bright) even lighting and I don't feel like I'm working in a cave any more. I recommend getting the linkable feature - makes it super easy to install a bunch of lights without having to worry about installing additional sockets or stringing extension cords.

 

[Frederik]

I looked for years at a computerscreen which is made of many tiny ledlights, without eyeprotection. (Type of computerscreen sunglasses. Expensive ? yes)
Now, even when I drive at night I have to put sunglasses on... (all cars these days have led lights)
Otherwise the tears start streaming of my face...
In other words Cogsy, you are wrong. (And I am not going to debate you, so don`t get angry or defensive, what you say is just incorrect.)

Led lights produce such a powerfull intense bright light that they will essentially blind you after a few years.
I didn`t believe it either in the beginning, I was young, what could happen right?
Now I am crying and your not, YET...

DO NOT INSTALL LED LIGHTS !!!!!! THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR EYES !!!!
Yes it is more expensive in electricity if you install regular lightbulbs but at least you will be able to see in a couple of years.

Let me remind you that the regular lightbulbs are also bad for your eyes, but to a lesser degree.
You could break the intensity of the light of the regular lightbulbs by using a filter.
Don`t even bother filtering the leds, just throw them out !!

The best lightbulbs are still the old ones which they do not make anymore, you know, the ones with the tiny coiled wire in them.
Or better yet, use candles.
I am kidding.

I hope you are reading this because you are about to **** up your life...

 

[Cogsy]

I looked for years at a computerscreen which is made of many tiny ledlights, without eyeprotection. (Type of computerscreen sunglasses. Expensive ? yes)
Now, even when I drive at night I have to put sunglasses on... (all cars these days have led lights)
Otherwise the tears start streaming of my face...
In other words Cogsy, you are wrong. (And I am not going to debate you, so don`t get angry or defensive, what you say is just incorrect.)

Led lights produce such a powerfull intense bright light that they will essentially blind you after a few years.
I didn`t believe it either in the beginning, I was young, what could happen right?
Now I am crying and your not, YET...

DO NOT INSTALL LED LIGHTS !!!!!! THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR EYES !!!!

Frederik,
You may well have eye issues AND you may have used computer screens for years, BUT correlation does not equal causation. Undoubtedly you have also been consuming water for many years, using correlation, we could guess something in the water has affected your vision (or, more likely, it could simply be genetics, a disease, etc.). One anecdotal event, without any evidence at all, is not how science works. Many studies have been conducted on this topic and, so far, there is no evidence to suggest LED illumination is detrimental to vision or eye health. In the UK, it is actually against the law for medical practitioners to even suggest that blue light exposure is a cause of eye/vision problems.

Again, the sun emits light of far greater intensity (across the entire spectrum) than LED's do but we are not all blind from exposure to sunlight. Your recommendation (simple, energy hungry, filament globes) also emit intense light covering the entire visible spectrum as well as large amounts of IR and smaller amounts of UV to boot. UV light is even more energetic than blue light and is the stuff that causes sunburn. You really want to limit your exposure to UV light - again, normal utility LED's do not emit UV light and produce very little IR as well.

Let me remind you that the regular lightbulbs are also bad for your eyes, but to a lesser degree.
You could break the intensity of the light of the regular lightbulbs by using a filter.

You could also just close your eyes or switch the light off but that sort of defeats the purpose of lighting at all don't you think?

 

[Rotormac]

Frederik,
If uyou've been looking at computer screens for many years, it's most unlikely that they were LED. A desktop screen was - until relatively recently - a CRT (no LEDs) and most all laptops were LCD (no LEDs). So, if your eyesight has been affected by something, it's very unlikely to have been LEDs but I've been wrong before.

 

[Rotormac]

Also, most cars today (but not all) have LED sidelights or indicators. Very few have LED headlights.

 

[Jennifer Edwards]

I guess I’ll add my two cents.

I am a retired systems architect who stared at computer screens for forty years.

Yes in the beginning when they were white CRT’s they were quite annoying. However when they switched to LED’s it was a godsend! Nice bright high contrast light with no bother.

I do not doubt that the gentleman has a real debilitating issue with light but I imagine that any direct source of light over time would have had the same effect on him.

Over my four decades of constant exposure to computer screens I was very concerned that I could be causing damage to my eyes. During that time I contacted both eye surgeons and clinical researchers who studied the long term effects of exposure to CRT and later LCD screens light a number of times.

I always received the same answer: that there is no damage to vision from long term exposure to computer screens.

They however almost always mentioned that eye fatigue from any close up work can and will occur and recommended to take a break and focus on something at a distance now and then throughout the workday.

The researchers I contacted were either conducting research or had already published their results. I can tell you these guys wanted nothing more then to prove eye damage from long term computer use. It was the reason they set off on that path.

Just my two cents worth.

Btw for those forty years I missed working in machine shops which was how I paid for my education, and why I took up model engineering as my hobby.

 

[CFLBob]

I'm going to echo Jenny. I almost posted this last night, but thought maybe I shouldn't just jump in.

Frederik, I feel for you because I'm sure you're experiencing something, but whatever it is doesn't apply to everyone. I stared at LED computer monitors all day at work for as long as they were available (rough guess - '06?). There were days I only spent a few hours looking at a monitor but there were days I spent 10 hours. My wife and I were early adopters of LED lights in our home and I switched to LED monitors at home years ago. I have four LED 60 W equivalent bulbs over my head (and this LED monitor), one or two of which have been there since 2012. LEDs have slipped into almost every room of our house, including replacing halogen lights that I thought were irreplaceable. As shop lights have failed due to the ballasts going bad, I've replaced them with LED lights, and the area where I do most work has had a measurable improvement in the light around the tools.

In short, I have LED lights everywhere around me and I've never had the eye issues you describe - or any other eye issues. Nor has anyone else. You're the first person I've come across with a story like this.

I'm not saying I don't believe you. The thing I'd like to know is what's the difference between your eyes and mine? I assume you've seen a doctor for this, what did they say? How can someone tell if they're going to react like you or like me?

There are people reading this now who are going to wonder if LEDs are safe for them. They aren't for you but they are for me. How can they tell?

 

[John Antliff]

Part of growing old is "that our eyes grow dim". It is part of the aging process. At the age of 60 years old you will need 100 times more light to see the same detail that you observed when at the age of 16 years old! I also spent, during 42 years in the computer industry, a fair proportion of that time staring at screens, green CRT ones at the beginning, then orange CRT ones followed by black on white and white on black and then finally LCD screens. The major improvement for me was the lack of flicker that occurred when CRT screens were replaced by LCD ones. Apart from presbyopia (hardening of the lens) which requires me to wear glasses for reading/close work and the reduction in light stimulation, my eyesight is still good. Unfortunately my workshop does not benefit from any natural light and I rely on old fluorescents which are slowly dying and I will be investigating LED alternatives assuming the budget will support that.

 

[deverett]

Now, even when I drive at night I have to put sunglasses on... (all cars these days have led lights)
Otherwise the tears start streaming of my face...

For night driving, yellow glasses are probably more effective than sunglasses to reduce glare from on-coming vehicles.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[justintime]

I looked for years at a computerscreen which is made of many tiny ledlights, without eyeprotection. (Type of computerscreen sunglasses. Expensive ? yes)
Now, even when I drive at night I have to put sunglasses on... (all cars these days have led lights)
Otherwise the tears start streaming of my face...
In other words Cogsy, you are wrong. (And I am not going to debate you, so don`t get angry or defensive, what you say is just incorrect.)

Led lights produce such a powerfull intense bright light that they will essentially blind you after a few years.
I didn`t believe it either in the beginning, I was young, what could happen right?
Now I am crying and your not, YET...

DO NOT INSTALL LED LIGHTS !!!!!! THEY WILL DESTROY YOUR EYES !!!!
Yes it is more expensive in electricity if you install regular lightbulbs but at least you will be able to see in a couple of years.

Let me remind you that the regular lightbulbs are also bad for your eyes, but to a lesser degree.
You could break the intensity of the light of the regular lightbulbs by using a filter.
Don`t even bother filtering the leds, just throw them out !!

The best lightbulbs are still the old ones which they do not make anymore, you know, the ones with the tiny coiled wire in them.
Or better yet, use candles.
I am kidding.

I hope you are reading this because you are about to **** up your life...

Sorry to hear of your eye problems. You need to get over your delusions and find a new Eye Doctor !

 

[bruedney]

Unfortunately my workshop does not benefit from any natural light and I rely on old fluorescents which are slowly dying and I will be investigating LED alternatives assuming the budget will support that.

Hi John
I got 10 x 4' LED units from Aliexpress for just on $NZ200 - they seem pretty good but I have only installed 2 of them so far.
Bruce

 

[WOB]

Frederik,
If uyou've been looking at computer screens for many years, it's most unlikely that they were LED. A desktop screen was - until relatively recently - a CRT (no LEDs) and most all laptops were LCD (no LEDs). So, if your eyesight has been affected by something, it's very unlikely to have been LEDs but I've been wrong before.

Samsung is working on a micro LED TV display that uses a single LED for each pixel. Obviously, the same tech will be offered for computer monitors when it finally comes to market. Currently, I believe all consumer grade monitors are LCD with CCFL or LEDs as the backlight.

WOB

 

[goldstar31]

I am not an eye specialist but over the past few hours ( Yes I have been jabbed for macular degeneration and this is ongoing ) and at the mercy of a large eye hospital, age is a factor and prior to all this, I had both cataracts removed etc.

If you suffer from bright oncoming lights whilst driving, the obvious thing is to seek professional advice.

 

[arvidj]

Samsung is working on a micro LED TV display that uses a single LED for each pixel. Obviously, the same tech will be offered for computer monitors when it finally comes to market. Currently, I believe all consumer grade monitors are LCD with CCFL or LEDs as the backlight.

WOB

OLED is another option for true a LED monitor or TV. I have an OLED TV but all of my monitors are LCD with CCFL backlighting. I don't think any of them are LCD with LED backlighting.

I think the "LED screen" confusion comes from the marketing departments. When the switch from CCFL backlighting to LED backlighting took place the marketing department ... not to be confused with the 'describe the technology accurately department' ... put LED Monitor in big letters on the outside of the box. In reality it was the same LCD technology monitor they had before with different back light technology. If you changed the light in the kitchen from CCFL or incandescent to LED the marketing department would claim you now have an LED stove and refrigerator because the light shining on it came from an LED rather than whatever it was before ... and as such the $100 increase in price of the appliances is justified.

Sorry for the rant ...
Arvid

 

[ARUP]

LEDs are safe. Light is light no matter what emits it. Even the sun will destroy your functional vision if you 'stare' at it long enough because the sun emits a lot of light with lot of 'amps' behind it. That's the only analogy I can think to use. So... for those who are having problems and think it is due to LED use... go see a doctor and get your eyes examined and tested properly. I have a doctorate and know what I'm discussing, here!

 

[Wizard69]

There is a way to damage ones eyes with high intensity LED's but you will not find them in video monitors. This article highlights some issues: https://www.photonics.com/Articles/High-Power_LEDs_Pose_Safety_Hazards/a28351 but unfortunately dives into the "blue is bad" nonsense. High intensity LED's of any wavelength can damage the eyes in the same way any other high intensity light source can.

The big problem with high intensity LED's is that they are for the most part point sources of very high intensity light that can then be focused into a vary small spot in the eye. What is important to note here is that these are high intensity LED's which are not the same as back light LED's in a LCD screen.

Having a used these high intensity solutions in vision and metrology systems at work I can attest to just how bright high intensity LED's are if you are caught off guard. In home lighting fixtures the leds are normally softened by some sort of diffuser to avoid that point source risk.

So the thing here is to try to separate the real issues from the questionable science that floats about the net. Just like any other risk form bright lights the safest thing to do is to not look at the source. You wouldn't look at a welders arc, a movie projector;s bulb, the sun or other bright lights so why would anybody look at an LED?

 

[Cogsy]

There is a way to damage ones eyes with high intensity LED's but you will not find them in video monitors. This article highlights some issues: https://www.photonics.com/Articles/High-Power_LEDs_Pose_Safety_Hazards/a28351 but unfortunately dives into the "blue is bad" nonsense

Not only does it support the "blue is bad" position, it claims the 'formal' range of this damaging spectrum is defined as the "300- to 700-nm range" which covers virtually the entire (human) visible spectrum (our eyes can detect in the range of 380 - 740 nm). This is an absurd statement and is directly equivalent to saying "any visible light is damaging to our eyes". It goes on to make further preposterous claims and even suggests some equivalence between lasers and LEDs in terms of danger. They even make reference to potential thermal hazards of long wavelengths emitted by LEDs, so they are suggesting infrared being emitted by high intensity LEDs is thermally damaging to our eyes! It boggles the mind to imagine how hot an LED would have to be running to essentially 'cook' our eyeballs (remember we detect infrared radiation as the 'hot' sensation we feel whenever we get close to an emitter like a hot stove or fire).

The big problem with high intensity LED's is that they are for the most part point sources of very high intensity light that can then be focused into a vary small spot in the eye.

This 'point source' issue could only possibly be a problem with LEDs (due to their low total power output) if the entirety of the light being emitted was focused on the retina. As the light emitted is multi-directional, unlike a laser, you would have to place the LED virtually touching your eyeball to capture most of the light being emitted. As you move the LED away from your eye, more of the light is missing your eyes and not being collected.

The way our eyes work is to focus all the light being received into a spot on the retina so an image is resolved. When this focusing process is not occurring on our retina we can't see clearly and we need to wear corrective lenses to correct this focus and let us see properly. There is nothing special about the size of an LED allowing it to be focused to a single spot on our retinas.

So the thing here is to try to separate the real issues from the questionable science that floats about the net. Just like any other risk form bright lights the safest thing to do is to not look at the source. You wouldn't look at a welders arc, a movie projector;s bulb, the sun or other bright lights so why would anybody look at an LED?

If you're interested in the science behind an issue, the best research option is to read journal articles in peer reviewed literature. Google Scholar is a great place to start (https://scholar.google.com/) but be aware not all journals are created equal - you need to evaluate the reputation of a journal even when it claims to be peer reviewed. The internet being what it is (namely driven by the almighty advertising dollar) clicks are currency and so much of what is written is simply to try and garner traffic. The article you've linked to is a great example of sensationalist misinformation that exists simply to make money.

 

[MrMetric]

I don't know about the whole high intensity thing hurting your eyes (I don't make it a habit of staring at the sun or my lights!) but.... I converted from florescent to LED a year ago and, boy, what a difference! So much brighter, no buzzing, and much much smaller footprint. I used one retrofit bulb because of some logistics, but otherwise just FreeCycled all of my new/used bulbs and fixtures. It only cost me about $75 on Amazon for the Barilla brand (think that is what it is) with two runs of LEDs. The only thing I don't like is that I really wanted a translucent cover but they only had a transparent one. So I can see the individual LEDs. The lights are also cooler than I would have preferred, which probably gives me more of that much maligned blue color. However, I'm not sure I really buy into that. Just me though....

 

[tornitore45]

Light is light no matter what emits it

Well there is "white" constant light, like emitted by the sun and than there is monochromatic light that may or may not be pulsed. Then there is LED fake white light obtained by exciting a mixture of Phosphors with UV light. Then there is fake LED white light with an intensity modulation (Current ripple = Light Flicker) of various frequency and intensity.
A poorly designed LED light can be very annoying and damaging, a well designed LED light can be a good solution to indoor lighting.