Setting up Shop Questions - from an NZ learner

[imagineering]

I will look to hook up with Bruce at some point in the new week or so since he's so close to home. I'm quite keen to have a look at his CNC mill.
.

Haha, Bruce built the Parts for his CNC Mill on my CNC Mill :thumbup:
I've just started a new job, was too knackered to go on Wednesday Evening. It's good that you got there and met a few of the Guys.
I'm rostered on Track Duty on the 14th. Come on out, introduce yourself and have a play on a Loco.

Murray.

Save​

 

[joco-nz]

So, having pretty much decided that the AL-320G will be the lathe of choice. Even though i keep looking at the AL-960B from Taiwan cose the finish on it looks really good and its only about 450kg. :wall:

One thing i notice on these Hafco machines in this $3k plus price point is the cross slide has no t-slots. Probably cose they expect you to have a mill.

Buying into this sized lathe means i need to save a bit longer for a mill, or more accurately a mill/drill.

Thus the question to the collective is does anyone have any experience with milling on these sized/style lathes that have no t-slots? If so how did you solve the work holding problem with no t-slots?

Or am I being a plonker with this question and if you have this sized lathe you shouldn't be mucking about trying to do simple milling opeartions on it and should break the rust on ye olde wallet hinges and get a sodding mill. :rant:

Sorry, been looking for any excuse to use previous emogi. Its just too cool. ;D

Cheers,
James.

 

[Blogwitch]

Actually James, you are quite correct in querying whether it has a t-slotted slide.

For between centre boring, it really is a must, and because mine doesn't have one, it has stopped me machining a large cylinder casting for a while now. I can do it on my mill, but it means using a boring bar held at one end and it is almost 12" long, using my right angled head. Not a solution that guarantees success.

But all is not lost.
Myself, I am fitting a cast iron removable slotted table to the top of my cross slide for when it is really needed. They are readily available at very reasonable costs, just need modding to fit your particular machine, or maybe there is enough meat on your cross slide to machine in some small t-slots. But you must be careful that you can still reach centre on the job with the extra thickness of the sub table.

John

 

[joco-nz]

John - I had been wondering if the removable table was the solution. I'm not too keen on the thought of hacking t-slots into the original cross slide. But adding a table will reduce the max swing over the slide. I guess that is better than no option to mount on the cross slide at all.

Cheers,
J.

 

[goldstar31]

My sub table on a long forgotten 920( actually an Axminster 9180) was peppered with tapped holes to hold the old bits from a Zyto, a Myford ML7, a Super7 and I presume will increase from addition of the 'new' Myford ML10.

Thinks? If I flogged some of them But then H.M. Revenue and Customs would want their share after I head for the local rubbish burning department for the statutory 9 minutes.

Cheers

Norman

 

[joco-nz]

Another approach to the t-slot problem could be per this page:
http://www.wrathall.com/Interests/machining/T-slot_cross_slide1.htm

Of course such a solution will need some kind soul with a mill to assist since it needs a mill to cut angles, steps, drill holes and counter sink various fasteners.

Cheers,
James.

 

[bruedney]

Of course such a solution will need some kind soul with a mill to assist since it needs a mill to cut angles, steps, drill holes and counter sink various fasteners.

Cheers,
James.

I'm sure we could find a "kind soul" - may need to buy some new tooling though - ohhhhh new tooling :thumbup:woohoo1

Cheers

Bruce

 

[goldstar31]

James


You have a PM

N

 

[joco-nz]

Norman - not sure how things work in Old Blighty but sale of something that is "second hand goods" if not done in a manner to suggest it is part of your normal income generation isn't typically taxable.

 

[joco-nz]

Bruce - yeah NEW TOOLS! And I'm sure beer or similar beverage of the kind souls preference can be procured to support the cause.

But got to sort this blasted garage out so I have ROOM for the soon to be procured lathe.

 

[goldstar31]

Another approach to the t-slot problem could be per this page:
http://www.wrathall.com/Interests/machining/T-slot_cross_slide1.htm

Of course such a solution will need some kind soul with a mill to assist since it needs a mill to cut angles, steps, drill holes and counter sink various fasteners.

Cheers,
James.

Actually 'Cleeve' made his tooling on the lathe.- not on a mill. He did make a drilling machine and a double ended grinder but no mill.

He made his own gears with a two ended cutter. My regret is that I never met him. I suspect that he wasn't an engineer either but could be wrong for once.

His little lathe- had two electric motors and was belt driven

 

[joco-nz]

Norman - did Cleeve have any publications or articles on what he did and probably more importantly how he did it? Apologies if you have already provided any relevant references.

Cheers,
James.

 

[bruedney]

Norman - did Cleeve have any publications or articles on what he did and probably more importantly how he did it? Apologies if you have already provided any relevant references.

Cheers,
James.

Hi James

I do not see this as a show stopper. I have made 4 engines without needing to mount any part on the cross slide. Not saying it is not a handy feature back not a necessary one

Cheers
Bruce

 

[bruedney]

Hi James

I do not see this as a show stopper. I have made 4 engines without needing to mount any part on the cross slide. Not saying it is not a handy feature back not a necessary one

Cheers
Bruce

 

[joco-nz]

Bruce - agree it's not a show stopper. But I like handy features so if I can get handy features I tend to get them. Equaly if i have to delay a mill purchase due to "lathe over eating", then having this sort of setup to allow easy mouning of a lathe milling attachment could be a good option.

We shall see. I might well end up doing what Rod did and do an AL-320G and SX3 combo. Although the number of BF20L CNC conversions I have read about look rather appealing as well.

Cheers,
James.

 

[goldstar31]

Norman - did Cleeve have any publications or articles on what he did and probably more importantly how he did it? Apologies if you have already provided any relevant references.

Cheers,
James.

There is his posthumous book- Screwcutting in the Lathe.
Again, C published in Model Engineer, in Engineering in Miniature, and (?) Practical Mechanics.

So apart from his book and what might appear from copyright sources- the square root of bugger all, it is probably lost. Obviously, I recall much-can't publish.

Cheers

N

 

[Blogwitch]

Pray tell me Bruce,
How would you go about boring the cylinder on this little job?
It is no use quoting that you have never needed T-slots, most probably because what you have already done on your lathe are fiddly little jobs compared to this one.
It is when something out of the ordinary comes along that makes you think outside of the box, and ways to get around it.
For the cost of these mods, it isn't worth waiting around until a Sunday, when everywhere is closed, you try to get your machine prepared for all and sundry.

That is why, over the years, I have been doing all sorts of usually low cost mods to my machinery, it will allow me to either do my machining better, faster or more accurately, allowing me to carry out jobs on my machine that it wasn't supposed to be capable of doing in the first place.

The cylinder casting is over 8" long.

I am one of the lucky ones who has a right angle head for my mill, so can use items such as a long boring bar in a horizontal orientation, but it isn't an ideal situation because of boring bar deflection, even in this size.

Or how do I bore this complicated casting I had made to fit around the above cylinder? You can't just wack it into your 4 jaw and hope for the best, you would most probably end up with a big 'B' in the middle of your forehead.

Now that is where a T-slotted cross slide comes into it's own. If you have a bed long enough, boring between centres has been around for well over 100 years, maybe 200. A well tried and trusted method.

Buying any machine tool is a compromise, it will never have everything you want included in it's specs. So you have to look at ways of overcoming those limitations, and in both James' and my situation, a T-slotted top plate should solve the problem, if there are no further complications. That is why I have bought two different top plates for mine, to allow me to choose whichever one suits the job the best. Smaller t-slots in a thinner plate to hold fairly lightweight items or to overcome height problems, or a heavyweight plate for those muscle bound needs.

John

 

[joco-nz]

There is his posthumous book- Screwcutting in the Lathe.
Again, C published in Model Engineer, in Engineering in Miniature, and (?) Practical Mechanics.

So apart from his book and what might appear from copyright sources- the square root of bugger all, it is probably lost. Obviously, I recall much-can't publish.

Cheers

N

Thanks Norman. I have the Workshop Series #3 "Screw Cutting in the Lathe". I'll see what results I get in finding some of his other material. I tend to look to collect useful material like this.

 

[goldstar31]

In Cleeve's book, you will see a very different to what was what I got- and everyone else if the truth be told!

Actually, he bought only part of a Myford ML7. Don't ask how but he did. In ME Volume 113( I think) he describes using two motors, one a full HP and perhaps a 1/3rd. Instead of a top heavy and unstable machine with the motor in a daft place, he used the tested overhead system of fast and loose pulleys. No VFD's and conversion to 3 phase control in those days. However, this 'toy' lathe earned him a living by making special order screws and nuts when he was made redundant. Bring yourself into the 21st Century and ask which machine does this. You are going to buy a copy lathe that questions were being asked when similar lathes were released to Joe Public from American LeaseLend after WW2. The Far East is flogging to you poor people such. Great- I'm in the Chinese circuit but fun in old age!

So Cleeve was no different to a lot of people and sheared the weak tee slots on his saddle. Mine on my second hand lathe were warped!
So he asked Myford to make him a steel one as a replacement. Again, your guess is as good as mine- but he did. Look at the book, it isn't Myford Myford! Again, he made a set of steadies that were not the three legged, bad to adjust 'Myford affairs'. They were capable of heavy cuts that came from a full horse power churning out! Again, he beefed up the Glacier bearings in the headstock with a supplementary fixed steady. This lathe was going to be built like a brick **** house.

Moving on, he got fed up with the time to bore holes and produced the swing tool holder. Despite the more recent assertions of a full patent, this is quite untrue but he simply couldn't afford to continue the administration costs. It lapsed but the concept was extended to both ordinary lathe boring but ordinary turning- with two tool posts and then by making the pivot eccentric could do retracting in screwcutting. This was all from chunks of steel fastened with home made bolts.

Time for a coffee, time to sort out Spanish Income Tax and Spanish sales before discussing farm houses in the Dordogne, France.

You get the idea? Rather more than most people know.

Cheers

Norman

 

[rodw]

Just a few observations from somebody who went through the same agonising decision making process.

If you want T slots. get the CQ6128 in your shortlist in the first post. I considered it but decided support would be suspect. Its smaller than the AL320G.
Hare and Forbes sell a vertical milling slide which you could probably fit to the AL320G. I thought about this but bought the mill instead. It's pretty small.
Don't forget that the AL320G also comes with a faceplate and I've seen a Youtube video of a guy boring a 500cc motor bike motor on a similar sized lathe using a fixture he made to hold the cylinder on the faceplate.

The BXA QCTP starter kit I have fitted to my lathe comes with a 25mm boring bar holder that will easily hold a boring bar long enough to bore 8" without worrying about deflection. The one I purchased for this holder only gives me about 7" but longer ones are available. If I wanted to go longer, I'd just grab a piece of 25mm ground bar and make my own. This is a project I've considered so I can bore out the spindle to a true 38mm as its a bit undersize in the centre (like most of the Chinese lathes).

I think it would be possible to make a tslot holder fairly easily and attach it to the cross slide without interfering with the toolpost. I'd probably use cast iron and ensure it also did away with the tinfoil cover at the rear of the cross slide. But you probably need a mill to make it....

I will say that the decision making process became a lot easier once I decided to buy a mill at the same time instead of later.