Screwless vise dude

[Anko]

Hi everyone

I need your opinion, you see, i´m planing to get a screwless vise for my mini-mill, i seen a lot of people using this vise on the web, seem to work very fine and with great acuracy, also the 3" screwless vise size match perfect the mini-mill.

But to get one on my hand, i have to import the vise from LMS or Grizzly, so that will be expensive :'(, i have been saving money for a while to get a good milling vise, and is a important investment to me, so i don´t want to make a mistake about that....

I get my doubt about that vise.. on the clamping force, i work a lot with carbon steel (like 1020, and also with 4140.... and got all my end-mills edges rounds jaja), i´m sure that with aluminium or brass this vise will work very nice, but i´m not so sure that can handle with more hard materials.

So, i made a little search on the web and i found a post on the CNCzone.com forum, here they talk about this vise will not tighten down hard on the object, and it get alot of negative opinions, so now i´m not so sure about going with the screwless vise.... ???

(http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=95218)

The other options are the 3" kurt style milling vise that offer LMS, but i feel that is oversized for the mini-mill, also is bigger and heavy, the shipping will ruin me off.. :-\

So i need your experience and opinion, i have done all my milling work (not much yet) with a clamping kit, and i have a very limitated work condition...I need a milling vise now

please illuminate me with your experience, I appreciate it very much :bow:

(sorry for my poor english, i will get better!)

Saludos desde Chile!! 8)

 

[ksouers]

Hola Anko.

I have the 2" screwless from LMS and highly recommend it. I've had it about 6 years now and still functions well. Though made in China it is a very high quality tool. It's made of hardened tool steel and finely ground on all surfaces, all corners are perfectly square. The floor of the base is perfectly parallel with the bottom, no detectable taper at all.

I have used the vise to hold aluminum, brass and steel. I have had exactly one incident where it did not hold the part securely and that was my own fault, I didn't tighten down the jaw properly.

I've heard of some people having problems with the vise moving on their table because the finish is so hard and slick. The issue is resolved by placing a piece of paper under the vise before tightening it down. I personally have never had an issue with the vise moving. I use it on both an X2 mini-mill and a larger knee mill. I use it almost exclusively for my small work, I only use the larger vise when the job it too big or awkward for the screwless.


By the way, your English is just fine ;D
Looking forward to seeing the work you produce.

 

[steamer]

I used a 3" toolmakers vise on my VanNorman #12 mill for some time before I got a "big" vice, more suited to this size mill. and as long as I took my time with big end mills, it was fine.

I would highly suggest putting a sheet of paper under the vice when you clamp it down, or it will slide around. The paper gives it enough grip to stay put. That REALLY works and I would not have been able to use it otherwise.

When I say paper, I mean writing paper,,,nothing fancy.

Make sure the vise you buy has features to allow you to bolt it down properly with out the clamps getting in the way of the moving jaw. That's annoying.

LMS has a side mounted clamping kit, but I think some toe straps would work here. Don't be afraid to block it in on either side too.

You could do far worse than a 3" screwless vice, They take a little more time to set up properly, with the clamp screw in the correct hole for the part to be machined, but they are accurate. My 3" toolmakers vice is more accurate than my 2" "super precision" vice on my F1 mill.......


Hope that helps!

Dave

 

[putputman]

Anko, most of those vises are pretty good and precise. I think where some people have a problem is how they use the vise.
The tightening screw is always at an angle to the clamping. If you let the angle get too much towards vertical, you will be appling more down pressure than horizontal pressure. If you move the pivot point to another hole so that you will be more towards the horizontal with the screw, you will be able to tighten on the workpiece better. I hope I explained this so it make sense.
I have two of these vises and use them for all types of material and have never had anything come loose on me.

 

[Anko]

Thank for the responses!

seem like the problem on this vise desing is more that slips over the mill table that the clamping force..

i´m planing to get this kind of screwless vise:

the reason?
the one that have slots in place of holes is a little more expensive... this one needs a couple of special clamps to hold down to the table, besides of that, i don´t think that the diference will be so critical..

anyway, i got a big lathe and a small mill, they are like "descompensated" in size, went i want to make some tooling for the lathe in the mini-mill, i have to clamp down some large pieces up to 10cm (for the size of the mini-mill), the jaw opening on this one is 3-15/16" so that is aproximate 10cm

using the maximun clamping size... will run ok with materials like steel? ???

what do you think??

saludos desde Chile!!!

 

[cidrontmg]

I have one just like in the picture, with 50mm jaw width. It´s very good for what I do, very accurate, and I haven´t had problems with holding workpieces firmly. The only gripe is, it´s rather small sometimes, and I´m planning to get another slightly bigger (75-80mm). Most of my milling is brass and ali, also some steel and cast iron. And the paper is a good idea. I use a couple of Post-it tabs, they won´t move when adjusting the vise to square on the table.

 

[Omnimill]

I use a couple of Post-it tabs.

Thats a good idea! Thm:

Vic.

 

[Andrew_D]

I have a 3" screwless, exactly like the picture above, from LMS. I made the clamps to hold it down, similar to LMS plans on the website.

I highly recommend a screwless vise. Works great, never had any trouble. As mentioned though, watch the angle of the hold-down bolt.

Andrew

 

[walnotr]

Since Dean hasn't chimed in, I will post a link to his tutorial on how to build your own screwless vise. Dean does amazing things in his small shop.

http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/mill/vise/vise.html

Steve C.

 

[Twmaster]

I don't know if this outfit will ship outside the USA....

I have this exact same vise.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-PRECISION-SCREWLESS-VISE-NEW-VISES-/390095235475

It's terrific. Square as square gets, holds well too. The only gripe I have is when you use the short cross pin you have to be careful about getting the pin into the correct groves underneath.

 

[Metal Mickey]

I have two of these vice's and use them all the time for milling. Its seems that I may have been lucky but to be honest I never had a problem in the past. I must admit that for some tasks I always add clamps above the item if feasible. I like mine. MM

 

[d-m]

Since Dean hasn't chimed in, I will post a link to his tutorial on how to build your own screwless vise. Dean does amazing things in his small shop.

http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/mill/vise/vise.html

Steve C.

I built this vise, but scaled it down to use on my hand taper it was a rather easy build and the vise works well. As soon as time allows I plan on building 2 more for my mill, larger of coarse and think I will try o make them out of cast as I seem to have and overwhelming supply.

 

[prof65]

Hi Anko,

I bought one of these vises three years ago, and I'm very satisfied with it.

Mine is 63 mm width, and I use it on an X2 mill. Perfectly square and it holds down parts very well.

A little collection of clamps I found on the web, maybe you get some ideas:

 

[prof65]

more...

 

[Omnimill]

Thanks for the pictures of the clamps Prof, most useful. I've just got a 50mm version and plan to use it in a larger milling vice but at some point I'm sure it will be used on it's own. I wonder what the original designers of this type of vice had in mind for clamping it as so far I've not seen any commercially available clamps offered?!

Vic.

 

[Anko]

thanks for your opinions!

now i´m very confidence on getting the vise, i´m just waiting for the shipping cost budget e-mail from Grizzly, to compare with LMS, and so see who would buy.

(ofcourse is not only the vise, i´m planing to buy some other items and put all the stuff in the same shipping box)

I wonder what the original designers of this type of vice had in mind for clamping it

that is a good question!

thanks again for the pictures of the clamps, i got a few ideas of how to clamp the vise tight to the table 8), but first I will order the vise before do anything.

Saludos desde Chile!

 

[prof65]

LMS sells these clamps, but the price is too high IMHO:

http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2675&category=

Maybe Grizzly sells them too, I can't find them on their site.

Cheers

Roberto

 

[Omnimill]

I've been studying my 50mm vice while I consider making some clamps for it and noticed the screw was binding a little. On closer inspection the hemispherical washer was jammed into the jaw. After removing it from the jaw it was clear that both the washer and socket needed to be cleaned up. I turned a spigot on the end of a short length of steel bar and with this fitted in the washer used it to lap it with some valve grinding paste. I also took the sharp corner off the washer and with a little grease added it's not binding at all now.

Vic.

 

[Omnimill]

I've been thinking of some ideas for clamps and came up with this:

Opinions invited, before I turn on the Mill! :hDe:

Vic.

 

[ksouers]

It looks good, Vic. It will work just fine.

But, an observation: The angle at the bottom is not necessary, just milling it straight across to a step at the back will be an easier set up. That's the way I did mine. The angle just makes it a more complicated set up, that's all.

If you want the practice at setting up the angle, go right ahead. I'm all for it. ;D