Round Column Mill

[WisJim]

I have a round column Grizzly G1126 mill drill that came with a good vise, a hold down set, a heavy metal stand, and a large tote of tooling and accessories. I had been looking for a usable mill of some kind that was under $1000 (I had set aside some dollars saved over a few years for a mill), so when this showed up on Craigslist for $600 I immediately contacted the seller and committed to buy it. If I ever find something better for a similar amount I'll probably buy it, but my budget is extremely limited, so price is foremost. It has served me well so far, and I work around its shortcomings.

 

[justinlmartin07]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will keep the round column solutions in mind. I am going to keep looking for a used dovetail column mill at a good price on craigslist.

 

[Richard Hed]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I will keep the round column solutions in mind. I am going to keep looking for a used dovetail column mill at a good price on craigslist.

Justin, How much room have yhou got in your shop? Also, how much moolah can hyou spend? It matters. And also, what region are you in?

There are auctions going on with good mills but they are not worth bidding on if you cannot go pick them up in person. Shipping will cost a leg. Also, if you are new to auctions, the bid is just the start of what you will actualy pay--there is an auction fee, usually 18% plus tax of whatever state it is from. So if you, say, bid 1000$ and got the bid, then there would be 180$ for the auction house plus X% tax on 1180$. So for a mill that actually might be worth 2500$, yo0u might get it for half the value. Still, it will cost more than at first blush.

Since I live in the Soviet of Washington, My shipping costs are much greater than they would be for most auctions which are Texas and Michigan and east. I can't afford to ship from there unless I get a bid in for 5$ -- LOL

 

[Festus]

I made a lot of money on a round column Jet years ago. Still have it and use it. Sometimes I push it to hard and think I need something different. But to be truthful, I have more time than money and can make it do what I want.

 

[olympic]

I have been reading this with interest, and have a question. How do the manufacturers of these mills try to make allowance for a user's changing the height without losing accuracy? Is there a procedure to be followed incorporated into the owner's manual? A physical reference point somewhere on the mill itself? Some other feature or procedure of which people may be unaware?

 

[packrat]

The only way I know of without modifying the mill is to just use your center finder..

 

[Bentwings]

We have a round colum grizzly mill. The biggest fault that I see is the limited verticals adjustment and the effort needed to raise or lower it. Mostly it’s left in one position then any holding devices are shined to the operating envelope. I voted strongly against this when it was purchased for this reason but old dad doesn’t know anything. Now there is a cabinet full of various shims and set up blocks .

 

[Steamchick]

I have had some issues with a round column milling machine in that the head has rotated around the column during heavy cuts with a 3/4" side mill. This was "managable" by monitoring closely and reducing the cut as I approached "size".
New high tensile bolts in the clamp helped, and a bigger spanner!
And more care when cutting forces are tangential to the column.
Anyone have clever ideas to fix this?
K2

 

[stanstocker]

I have been reading this with interest, and have a question. How do the manufacturers of these mills try to make allowance for a user's changing the height without losing accuracy? Is there a procedure to be followed incorporated into the owner's manual? A physical reference point somewhere on the mill itself? Some other feature or procedure of which people may be unaware?

They don't, assuming by accuracy you mean location. I've had one since around 1996. Using extended center drills, screw machine drills, and reamers with overlong (for my needs) shanks cut off combined with the 5 inch or so quill travel avoids the majority of height changes. You may still have to pick up a center or edge now and then but with some wiggling of the eyebrows and thought up front a lot of it can be avoided. Using an ER32 adapter for end mill and short tool holding is helpful as well. It's worth thinking about preserving some face / corner / edge to pick up in case a head shift is needed. Keep in mind you don't loose X/Y relationships as you would with shifting the workpiece on the table, you just loose the location of the spindle centerline and Z height information. Pick up ANY repeatable point on the work to get back in business, you don't have make it a big deal. Poke a 1/4 inch hole on an edge that will be removed down the line and pick it up with a 1/4 inch bit of drill rod. For most needs the accuracy will be sufficient. When it isn't, use better methods. A laser in the spindle will do a nice job to within a few thou with a small enough dot and a clean edge on the work. It isn't as though these machines have precision ground lead screws, almost every move of any length is adding or reducing error with respect to some other point on the work anyhow. Everyone thinks about accuracy above the table, few consider the inherent variations in the parts of the machine they can't control or even see beyond trying to remember to cross the backlash. No point chasing tenths when your handwheel graduations are +/- 0.005 " over the length of travel. You want sub one thou precision and accuracy, you lock the tables, set up fences, and grab the gage blocks. It's home brew jig borer time. Do that a few times and having to relocate the spindle center line feels like a luxury

Unlike a knee or dovetail column mill, instead of just planning on moving things when needed as the job proceeds, you think about how can I work without changing Z zero where Z zero is the face of the spindle with the quill fully retracted. The patron saint of round column mills is Wile E. Coyote or perhaps Heath Robinson / Rube Goldberg.

The two things that are a real issue for clearance are coaxial centering gadgets and boring heads. The best I can say is that on the rare occasion I need to use a boring head I'm already committed to raising the head, so I make room for the coaxial indicator as it's about the easiest way I know to find center of a large hole, namely the one I'm going to bore.

If affordable knee mills were available, or the now common "affordable" dovetail column mills existed when I was buying mine a round column would not have been purchased. You buy the best you can afford and learn to work with it, and maybe upgrade when you have to or can afford to.

 

[stanstocker]

I have had some issues with a round column milling machine in that the head has rotated around the column during heavy cuts with a 3/4" side mill. This was "managable" by monitoring closely and reducing the cut as I approached "size".
New high tensile bolts in the clamp helped, and a bigger spanner!
And more care when cutting forces are tangential to the column.
Anyone have clever ideas to fix this?
K2

I roughed up the column with coarse paper for a little more bite. I also wipe off oil or grease from the column, not that that does much as there is oil soaked into the head casting as well, but it seems to help a little. As you have already figured out, more wrench applied to the bolts and smaller cuts seems to be about the best we can do with these.

Oil up the column when done, although I'm thinking that perhaps a pitted rusty surface might give enough bite to avoid the head shift on heavy cut issue It's kept things from moving on a few used "in good shape' machines I've looked at over the years...

 

[SmithDoor]

I picked a mill/drill practically brand new for 500$ Canadian six yrs ago. It has its short comings, but it does what I ask of it.
If it's good enuf for Keith Appleton, it's good enuf for me.

I agree

The best part of round column is price and some cases size.
But work with it and or fix the short comes .

Dave

 

[kwoodhands]

I have had some issues with a round column milling machine in that the head has rotated around the column during heavy cuts with a 3/4" side mill. This was "managable" by monitoring closely and reducing the cut as I approached "size".
New high tensile bolts in the clamp helped, and a bigger spanner!
And more care when cutting forces are tangential to the column.
Anyone have clever ideas to fix this?
K2

Remove both bolts and check for interference in the yoke gap. Replace the bolts and use a longer wrench to tighten the bolts. I use a 1/2" drive ratchet wrench. A friend uses a spud wrench.
mike

 

[Mike Ginn]

I think posts 29, 30 and 31 are spot on. I to have a round column mill (Warco Minor) with the limited travel quill and find with some initial planning and the use of ER collets/ collet holder that I seldom need to move the head up the column. If I do then I use a laser pointer over 3 metres to realign. I have thought about changing the mill but its fitted with a good quality DRO and recently a VFD so I guess I will stay with the mill and accept it will have accuracy issues.
Mike

 

[SmithDoor]

I think posts 29, 30 and 31 are spot on. I to have a round column mill (Warco Minor) with the limited travel quill and find with some initial planning and the use of ER collets/ collet holder that I seldom need to move the head up the column. If I do then I use a laser pointer over 3 metres to realign. I have thought about changing the mill but its fitted with a good quality DRO and recently a VFD so I guess I will stay with the mill and accept it will have accuracy issues.
Mike

There is a advantage to round column mill most bever think about .
You can extend the range of mill cut without unbolting the part by swing the head. Great for a small shop.

Dave

 

[Saddo]

I don't chime in often as most things have already been said. I've had a Warco Minor mill since '98, the best mod which made it a gem to use was a digital readout. Anyway back to my point when locking the head, it came with a special spanner of a particular length to stop you over tightening the locking bolts and cracking the casting. I'm guessing if the head moves when taking a cut you've probably gone beyond the mills capacity. The same issue affects all round column mills, I've seen few Dore Westbury mills with broken castings due to overtightening.

 

[Mike Ginn]

Saddo
Maybe a little of topic but related to the Warco Minor and I guess similar Grizzly machines. After a few years of light usage the spindle suddenly locked during milling. Reversed the spindle by hand and all was well until it happened again. I removed the spindle and bearings to discover the top bearing was dry. Somewhere I had read that the bearings were sealed for life but in fact they were 2 part roller bearings originally designed for use in the handle bars of motor bikes! The bent metal cage had worn and moved to jam between the roller and the outer thus causing an instant lock. I replaced the bearings and greased but the only way to re-grease is to dismantle the spindle after "n hours" usage and I don't know what "n hours" is! I tried to get better quality bearings but nothing available at a sensible price.

What do you Guys do regarding lubrication? I note that by removing the front plastic cover plate (not on all similar mills) I can get access to the top bearing and give it a squirt of oil. The bottom bearing seems to remain lubricated by virtue of the top oil/grease dropping down the spindle.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Mike

 

[ajoeiam]

Saddo
Maybe a little of topic but related to the Warco Minor and I guess similar Grizzly machines. After a few years of light usage the spindle suddenly locked during milling. Reversed the spindle by hand and all was well until it happened again. I removed the spindle and bearings to discover the top bearing was dry. Somewhere I had read that the bearings were sealed for life but in fact they were 2 part roller bearings originally designed for use in the handle bars of motor bikes! The bent metal cage had worn and moved to jam between the roller and the outer thus causing an instant lock. I replaced the bearings and greased but the only way to re-grease is to dismantle the spindle after "n hours" usage and I don't know what "n hours" is! I tried to get better quality bearings but nothing available at a sensible price.

What do you Guys do regarding lubrication? I note that by removing the front plastic cover plate (not on all similar mills) I can get access to the top bearing and give it a squirt of oil. The bottom bearing seems to remain lubricated by virtue of the top oil/grease dropping down the spindle.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

Mike

Well - - - mr Mike - - - - if you absolutely don't value your time and don't mind the pita needing to dismantle the drive to grease the bearings - - - - then you have your answer. On the other hand if you do mind then you will need to spend more to get something that will work. In my experience - - - things that make lubrication easier - - - - they usually pay off - - - cause the lubrication is more likely to get done - - - - if it don't get done then I know things get expensive.

(I'm in the process of dismantling the running gear on a few reefer trailers (cold hauling originally) and the automatic greasing systems have been noted even if I don't have an official use for them at this point!)

 

[Lloyd-ss]

I had thought everything had been said, and re-said, and said and re-said. But nope, now the subject of bearings.
If interested, take a look at this very similar thread about bearings in round column mills.

https://www.homemodelenginemachinis...ents-hf-33686-round-column.35030/#post-399089
It is obvious when reading various threads that we have a pretty clever and resourceful bunch of members. We WILL find a way to do it, whatever "it" happens to be. Everyone, please give yourself a pat on the back. Seriously.

 

[Jannemanne]

I have round column mill and stop torque and it is very accurate too.

My drawing on this in the download section.

Dave

Hi, is there a link to the drawing in the download section? I maybe a novice here, i can't find it. Cheers, Janne.

 

[olympic]

Hi, is there a link to the drawing in the download section? I maybe a novice here, i can't find it. Cheers, Janne.

Here's what SmithDoor posted:

https://www.homemodelenginemachinis...ith-torque-arm-add-to-mill.29461/#post-341358
That being said, I must say I can't understand the torque arm completely. Perhaps a further comment would help.