Questions on progression for new modeler

[bhouin]

I am new to model engines and have a desire to ultimately build a v12 and a radial. Now I know that I won't jump right in to that level as my skills are not ready for that at this point. I intend to start with a wobbler.

Anyway this gets me to my question. What do members here think the next step builds should be in progressing from the wobbler to the ultimate goal builds?

If I posted this in the wrong place please let me know.

Thanks,
Bob

 

[kvom]

Since you want to build IC engines eventually, one of the simpler hit&miss engines (Kerzel?) might be a reasonable step up.

 

[bhouin]

Thanks. I will take a look at them. I appreciate the input.

 

[lohring]

Piston and cylinder as well as crankshaft machining are the major skills in multicylinder engine building. The various Cox engine builds are a good way to build a multicylinder engine while limiting some of the hard work. See http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f12/098-v-twin-using-2-cox-049-cylinder-assemblies-22013/ and http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f16/engine-making-possibly-helpful-6984/ for ideas. James engine plans are at http://www.jamesengine.com/index.htm

Lohring Miller

 

[Tin Falcon]

learn to measure precisely and consistently with a micrometer that measure in ten thousands. or the equivalent metric micrometer.

probably the most important skill is learning to make smooth true bore in cylinders . by true i mean no taper bell ends or egg shape.
Tin

 

[fairyanna]

Go read Ron Chernich's ModelengineNews.org tutorial on contrapiston design, fit, and cylinder lapping in general, while you still can. By the way, I have engines with leaky contrapistons that run OK. In those, the leaks are pretty minor. In at least one instance, the leak is due to poor surface finish leaving heavy scratches as leak pathways, even though the overall fit is tight. When I made the cylinder taper, the upper area of the cylinder did not quite clean up.

 

[Blogwitch]

From my experience of teaching basic skills people to pick up enough skills and machines plus tooling, depends on how deep your pockets are. To pick up the skills should normally take about 3 years before the person is both skilled and competant enough to take on a fairly complex challenge, the other part is up to the machinists themselves, lots of jobs can be done without complex machinery and tooling, but if you have them, then the 3 years would stand about right, without them, then complex setups would need to be learned, so taking a fair while longer.
I am not trying to put you off, but facts are facts. There are lots of projects gathering dust under benches because people started them before they were really ready. Take your time, learn as much as you can, and when you think you are really ready, only then take on your dream projects.

John

 

[gus]

Hi Bob,
John is quite honest and right. The skill required to make engines takes years to acquire.
In 2011,I thought my machining/fitting/milling skills was up to mark and went on to build the FireFly IC Two Stroke Glow Plug Engine. Made too many unforgivable mistakes with fits and honing. Early 2012 ,went to build the Webster,4 stroke Gas Engine.With the help and encouragement of HMEM Folks,it did start and run. Webster is an open crankcase engine and very forgiving. Went to build the Rupnow Hit & Miss Engine.The basic engine is not too tough to built but getting the Hitting & Missing part was tough but eventually done. Went on to build the Nemett-Lynx, 4 stroke , overhead cam Gas Engine which was tougher than I thought. Got it going too. Along the way picked up new skills and polished up old and forgotten skills.
I would suggest building Webster or the Rupnow H&M Engines. All made from bar stocks and no expensive castings to replace.

Right now looking for ''Vee'' Engine Drawings. Meanwhile doing housekeeping and making tool cabinets to store the ten year collection of tools. HMEM Engineers are multi skilled. Metal bashing and wood bashing.
Wish you all success. Happy New Year.

 

[Wizard69]

Here is my perspective, do anything you can with your tools! Sometimes an odd is a better learning experience than that next build you have been thinking about. I know this is a factor in wood working, every time you bash something together you improve your skills even if it isn't an attempt at fine wood working, the same thing goes for metal working.

A lot of my metal working experience has come from maintenance type machining at work. Here you never know what you will be doing next that involves a mill or lathe. It is very educational to have to look at a part and say to yourself "how in the $@&$& am I going to fix that". Obviously in the home you have fewer opportunities to do things like this but fixing things, being machining a part or simply tearing it apart and reassembling is a learning experience and brings insight as to how things work.

So in a nut shell, find any reason you can to put your machines to work. It doesn't have to be model building to be skill building.

 

[kuhncw]

Lots of good advice. Tooling and skill build over time, but don't wait too long to give a simple IC engine a try. I built an Elmer Verburg mill engine, 2/3 of a Stuart 7, and then took off on a single cylinder hit and miss engine. Bar stock designs are the way to go while you are learning. If you make a mistake, you learn, and keep going. Several simple IC engines have been mentioned in this thread.

V-12 engines and radials are a challenge, but you'll get there if you get going on the simple engines and keep at it. You'll find even a simple single cylinder bar stock engine will be quite a thrill when it fires and takes off on its own.

Good luck and ask questions along the way.

Chuck

 

[Nerdz]

Im not a machinist by any means, nor do I have much experience. What ever I have learned has been from hands on or from the many books Ive read. I have made a few wobblers, then I made the EZ engine (you can find it around here), and now Ive decided to try to make a 2 Stroke. It requires no valves and the one I am making is just as simple as the EZ engine. You just have to make sure the piston and cylinder are a close match.

This is the one one Ive decided to try:

http://ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_tweetakt_puppy/tweetakt_puppy_frameset.htm

You can ask Jan for Plans .

 

[bouch]

I am new to model engines and have a desire to ultimately build a v12 and a radial. Now I know that I won't jump right in to that level as my skills are not ready for that at this point. I intend to start with a wobbler.

Anyway this gets me to my question. What do members here think the next step builds should be in progressing from the wobbler to the ultimate goal builds?

If I posted this in the wrong place please let me know.

Thanks,
Bob

Here's the progression I would suggest:

1) Wobbler, as you've already said. This will teach you basic machining.

2) "fixed cylinder" steam engine from bar/round stock (no castings). more parts, closer tolerances, more "difficult" parts (like the cylinder) will all help improve your machining work. Suggest something like Elmer's Engines #33, or one of Rudy Kouhoupt's single cylinder engines (found in village press's "shop wisdom of..." series). The 2nd engine I ever built was Rudy's "Horizontal Mill engine" (seen here: http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/engines/horizontal-mill-engine-113.html) and it taught me quite a bit.

3) Single Cylinder gas engine from bar/round stock. Once again, more improvement in machining skills, plus you'll learn about making piston rings and seating valves to get good compression, making a camshaft, and also ignition systems. Others have suggested engines that fit this category already

4) Multi-cylinder gas engine from castings. Multi-cylinder engines have more challenges than a single cylinder, like a more complex camshaft and crankshaft. Suggest either Westbury's "Seal" (a classic 4 cylinder engine that's been around for over 60 years!) or one of Bob Shores' engines (I think his "Hercules" is a two cylinder...)

By then you might be ready to tackle your "dream project". Just remember, learning how to use your tools takes time. Don't be afraid to "repeat" any of these steps. Don't be afraid to throw away a part, if you mess up don't try to "save" it or you'll just frustrate yourself. And don't be afraid to ask more questions.

Good luck!

 

[Nerdz]

Id like to add more to the above point. At various points you will get frustrated. Dont let it get to you. Just remember its a hobby and its done for fun. Walk away if you get to frustrated with something, its not worth being angry over .