Need a little bit of help

[user 14957]

Hi guys I'm a long time reader of this forum but this is my first time actually posting something. Im looking to make a small workshop in my apartment but I'm having trouble deciding on which mill and lathe to buy. So I've been looking for a while and ive narrowed it down to either an SX2 from LMS with a deluxe lathe both of these with their respective tooling. The SX3 or BF20 and a G4000 from grizzly and since its the only brand that will ship these model to me. Last but not least I've also looked into the Mill and lathe from bigdogmetalworks but i haven't found any info on those and i have no idea what type of tooling to buy for them.

I guess the biggest questions are which have the most travel and power for the money? Which of these are the quietest? Need to make as little noise as possible.

Thanks in advanced =)

 

[Tin Falcon]

First of all it would be helpful if you post an introduction tell us a bit about yourself and your interest in this hobby and location in the world.

If you have the funds space and ability to move the larger machines into your apartment that would likely be the way to go.

the Sx-3 has a larger working area as does the G4000.

the g-400 is listed as 250 lbs but I think that is shipping weight two guys should be able ot move it without too much trouble the S-x 3 is 450 lbs vs about 150 for an SX2 a mini lathe weighs about 100 lbs.

as far as power the lms machines are 500 watts the larger machines are 562 watts so not a lot of difference there.

Grizzly and LMS both have good reputations I have purchased from both.

Both imho have good customer service. never heard of big dog metals.
as far as quiet as long as you stick with belt drive you should be OK.

Tin

 

[user 14957]

Hi sorry last night it was late and all I had was my cellphone so I tried to make it as short as possible. I'm a Mechanical Engineering student from Puerto Rico. About a year ago I took my first Manufacturing class and noticed that I liked it a lot and I was pretty good at it. So I took a loan to buy the equipment needed to make a small Fab Lab/ Machine Shop/ Measurements Lab in the apartment, but the part of Machine Shop is pretty much where I have the least expertise equipment wise so I decided to look for a bit of help.

Currently I'm leaning to buy from grizzly as they have the SX3 and it has a DRO on the Z axis & tachometer so its one less expense on the long run when I buy DRO's. Then again LMS has both of their machines with starting tooling so its less pain at first. Yeah I was looking for belt drive since it would give me less noise and more torque plus easier repair if it breaks. Weight wise I don't really mind in worst case to move them I have 3 friends that would gladly help me lift or move it around.

I was wondering are there any other major advantages between the mills and lathes apart from area and weight? Does anyone here have any details from Big Dog Metals? Any other good 9x20 or 9x30 lathe recommendations? Thanks in advanced & sorry for the rudeness.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Most of the chinese machines are made in the same place. the differences come in a couple of areas.
( 1) acessories and improvements installed in the factory. like bigger motors DROs, tachs,cam lock tail stocks etc.
(2) distributor rep/qc in the factory. grizzly and LMS both have paid people at the factory who check and select machines before they are shipped.
(3) customer service LMS and Grizzly both have people to talk to and spare parts usually ready to ship.

Some dealers sell machines but offer no parts or support other than exchange . exchanging a machine is not an option for you.

larger machines tend to give a smoother cut. vibration tends to be absorbed by the machine.

I have heard of many folks starting with the smaller seig machines and then upgrading I can not say remember anyone buying a 9x20 and an x3 and trading down to a 7x whatever and an x-2.
the minis are not bad machines i started with them and still have them.
but if you are used to real machines i think you will be happier with the larger set. also the grizzly 10 by 20 has had good feedback and is a bit nicer than the 9x20.
I have heard of guys getting the smaller machines to have in the house for a second shop.
also be careful if renting oil on a wall or carpet can be expensive. so protect the walls and floors .
Tin

 

[Wagon173]

I live in a rental and have a small shop. I recently rented a larger shop cause it's just a pita to have one in the spare room. It's pretty cut and dry on how to take care of the carpet and walls. It's just tedious. I moved the machine several feet off the wall and taped plastic to it that draped down and taped to the top of plywood that was laid on the carpet. The plywood also had a light bead of silicon on the seams and was duct taped. As long as you're quick to clean up any spills and keep up with cleaning up your chips, I didn't have any issues. It's nice to go rent another shop somewhere though so you don't have to worry about sweeping and vacuuming every two or three cuts you've made. I can also play with more destructive solvents now like carb cleaner and acitone and not have to worry about destroying the carpet. Using my air brushes is a pretty big plus to the shop also. I only pay 50 a month for it and it's worth every penny. Maybe something to think about. As far as machines though, everything I have is small. Sometimes I think I should have gone bigger, but if you're looking to expand your capabilities with other machines and are limited on space size is definitely a factor and I've learned several ways to work around my machines shortcomings in the past. There isn't really a right or wrong answer, though. If your shop serves your purpose and doesn't endanger anybody, you win!

 

[user 14957]

Well to tell you the truth I've used both small (by small i don't mean SX2 small, well im not sure how big these are but I mean some combo machines we have in the shop) and big machines so starting in an SX2 wouldn't be really that bad but currently money would be the prob since the upgrade would mean more money on the long run, since I would upgrade to SX3 or 4 on the long run then eventually to a Knee Mill which would be a 3 step investment instead of a 2 step. You speak of a 10x20 from grizzly do you know the model? I would love to look into it. About the carpets and walls the table im putting the machines on will have a small 3/4 MDF board on the back as tall as the machine to avoid it plus the front shield i think should cover everything that could happen. Right now my biggest concern when thinking of buying the mini's is that im not sure what is the biggest piece i could make. Currently im involved on making things like SAE competition planes and Battlebot part for robots in the 15lb 30lb and 60lb so not knowing the limitations kind of makes me wonder.

 

[Tin Falcon]

there is the G0602

for $ 1250 and the variable speed version the new G0752 for $1595.

in theory the larges pice you can put on a lathe is the specification numbers like 7 x10 but in realty the numbers will likely be smaller. look at the chuck size that comes with the lathe this is a much more realistic swing. also look at the swing over bed.

a 3.5 diamerter fly wheel is probably reasonable max on a 7" lathe and a 8" on a 10 inch lathe. for a long piece extending center to center maybe 2" diameter for a 7" and 4" d for the 10" keep in mind the larger the diameter the more torque needed from the motor.
btw the 10" lathes have a 1 hp motor.
Tin

 

[user 14957]

Oh i see thing is since you said 10x20 I didnt really see it since that model says 10x22 but ok ill check it out then and ill check the G0752 out also. Since you have different types of Mills could you maybe give me a more or less working area like maybe max size on y and z since the x is not really limited by anything?

 

[Tin Falcon]

the max size part on the mill is not hard to figure out. the manufacturer will give max x,y and z movements. if you take an inch off the x and y and a couple inches off the z that will give reasonable max. z is the tricky one depends on what you are using to hold the tool and z can get tight quick on an x-2 or a mini lathe like a 7x10 . sorry for referring to the 10 x 22 as a 10 x 20.
Tin

 

[user 14957]

Oh I see, its ok I just didn't see it at first since I thought I was looking at the wrong model but I think i might go for the SX3. Now I guess the remaining question would be is the SX3 tool pack from LMS worth the price or can I get a better price buying things one by one? If so any recommendations on good quality end mills and holder?

 

[ShopShoe]

kyorinsuu,

IMHO, I am not a fan of sets that any vendor puts together unless the price of the combined items is a whole lot less than the price of quality items that do the things you want to do. There is a good chance that the vendor's idea of what is suitable is not the size, quality, finish, or level of precision that you might want.

On the LMS kit: You may want a different vise (and many, myself included, save money buy not getting the swivel base.) You may want more and differently-sized collets. I think the endmill set is useful to get started, but you may want to buy some others individually, and some in other sizes, ball-ends, etc. The choices for endmills also depend on what materials you'll be machining.

Definitely, you will want some high-quality drills (drill bits), and a high-quality drill chuck and arbor is a very worthwhile replacement for the one that comes with the mill.

And the list goes on.

--ShopShoe

 

[Wizard69]

Interesting thread.


Normally I recommend that people be careful to not undersized the machines they buy, but in your case putting the machines in an apartment adds other considerations. As has already been mentioned is the issue of an enclosure to minimize clean up issues, the bigger the machines the harder it is to contain the drips, swarf and other emissions. Combine that with your stated intentions to buy bigger machines in the future I'm tempted to say go with something like the G0704 which is an interesting arrangement of hardware. This mill has plenty on the net about upgrading to CNC so that avenue is open to you. Frankly the G0704 is the smallest mill I'd recommend to most hobbiest these days as it is small with reasonable travels.

For a lathe I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than the 9x20 for the types of things you are indicating here. That being qualified by not knowing exactly what a 60 pound class robot is. I'm just imagining fairly large shaft work and so forth on such a robot. Further watch spindle bore size, a fairly large bore will be of a big advantage even on a small lathe. This is where something like Grizzly's little SouthBend lathe might be passable even if it is lees than a 9x20. There is an old saying about where there is a will there is a way, but a lathe that is always too small serves no useful purpose and is frustrating. So you really need to imagine what parts you expect to make on this lathe to get one in the right size range.

The parameters I see as important are the swing, length between centers and the spindle bore. Note an important point here, that one dimension is the distance between CENTERS which is a useless metric for a lot of lathe work. You really need to know what is possible when you have a chuck on the spindle and a Jacobs chuck in the tailstock. On many of the small lathes it becomes next to impossible to use jobber length drill bits in the machines. This is why I resist suggesting the 7x10 or 12 lathes especially in your case where you seem to be interested in larger things.

The biggest problem with a larger lathe is installation especially in an apartment setting. The fact is they get heavy real quick. Heavy is very very good in a machine tool though. I suspect that your decision to some extent will come down to what is practical weight wise in your apartment. A 500 or 1000 pound lathe just might not be safe in some apartments too so consider that.