Mystery steam engine

[chris123]

I don't think marine compound engines generally had flywheels.
I would not add a flywheel unless there was a problem that required it.

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Ok thank you
Chris

 

[chris123]

I think you are on the right track.
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Thank you for your work
Awsome
Best regards chris

 

[Steamchick]

I disagree Green T. I have seen marine twins with small flywheels, both simple pressure and compound. Admittedly the diameter of the flywheel is probably less than 1 1/2 times the stroke, unlike large flywheels on Mill engines, etc. Often solid and relatively massive though, especially where there is just a single H.P. cylinder on a compound, that probably has a "starter" steam feed to the L.P. cylinder. Otherwise the single H.P. cylinder acts like a single that can stall at end-of-stroke,
.But there may be some simple twins with 90 degree cranks that have no flywheels.
K2

 

[chris123]

The more I see of this engine, the more I am impressed with the quality of its design and construction. Your balsa lifting link looks about right. In an engine of this quality the links might be made with split bronze bearing blocks both ends. It looks as though you will need four of them. They need to be a good fit on the pins as they take a surprising amount of alternating load when the engine is running. If they are at all loose the whole valve gear jiggles about and makes a lot of clatter.

Hi charles another question
What is with the eccentric on the right?
On the side od the block its got like a thickened part in the cast where u could mount soemthing

 

[chris123]

I disagree Green T. I have seen marine twins with small flywheels, both simple pressure and compound. Admittedly the diameter of the flywheel is probably less than 1 1/2 times the stroke, unlike large flywheels on Mill engines, etc. Often solid and relatively massive though, especially where there is just a single H.P. cylinder on a compound, that probably has a "starter" steam feed to the L.P. cylinder. Otherwise the single H.P. cylinder acts like a single that can stall at end-of-stroke,
.But there may be some simple twins with 90 degree cranks that have no flywheels.
K2

It looked like that first if it helps

 

[Jasonb]

The eccentric most likely drove a feed pump which would top up the boiler to replace what was used in the form of steam

It is not a design I recognise so if it was a published one certainly not common. The valves between the cylinder are more difficult so that is why most models have them at either end and a lot of full size too. Muncaster did have a compound model design with the valves between cylinders but there are a lot of differences to your engine.

In full size makers like Thornycroft favoured that layout but they did not seem use cast standards

 

[Charles Lamont]

As Jason says, it is probably for driving one or more pumps. Do you know what a condenser does? (If you do it will save an explanation.)

I don't know what the pad on the side of the HP cylinder barrel is for. It would be a very unusual place to mount a pump. It would be a good place for a mechanical cylinder lubricator. While a lubricator could also be driven by that eccentric, it would be a unusual arrangement.

 

[chris123]

The eccentric most likely drove a feed pump which would top up the boiler to replace what was used in the form of steam

It is not a design I recognise so if it was a published one certainly not common. The valves between the cylinder are more difficult so that is why most models have them at either end and a lot of full size too. Muncaster did have a compound model design with the valves between cylinders but there are a lot of differences to your engine.

In full size makers like Thornycroft favoured that layout but they did not seem use cast standards

Thank you very much jason
Any suggestions and ideeas always
Apriciated
Best regards chris

 

[GreenTwin]

I have seen some modern steam engines cast with very complex cores; the german guy, I forget his name, made his own design and had a foundry cast it in gray iron. It took two attempts by a professional foundry to get a complete fill.

Making the cores for one piston valve and one D-valve would not really be any different if they were located between the cylinders, or at the outsides of the cylinders. It would probably be easier to support the cores if they were located on the ends of the cylinders.

As far as machining, using a D-valve between the cylinders could make for some tricky machining, since you would have to reach in.
Like a 20hp Stanley steam auto engine, with two D-valves between the cylinders; you have to reach in to machine the valve faces.

Long castings can be tricky to fill, and you have to make sure one end does not solidify first and draw molten metal from the other end.

It is an impressive cylinder casting, in my opinion, and impressive machining too.
.

Edit:
The german guy is Rainer Radow.
Here is a link to his website, and a few photos from that website.
All image copyrights by Rainer Radow.

https://radow.org/dampfmaschine-kaiserliche-marine.php

https://steamboating.de/kaiser/dampfmaschine-kaiserliche-marine-03-09.php

https://steamboating.de/kaiser/dampfmaschine-kaiserliche-marine-03-10.php

https://steamboating.de/kaiser/dampfmaschine-kaiserliche-marine-03-11.php


.

 

[chris123]

As Jason says, it is probably for driving one or more pumps. Do you know what a condenser does? (If you do it will save an explanation.)

I don't know what the pad on the side of the HP cylinder barrel is for. It would be a very unusual place to mount a pump. It would be a good place for a mechanical cylinder lubricator. While a lubricator could also be driven by that eccentric, it would be a unusual arrangement.

Hi charles i know what a condenser does
Yea it can reduce electric power ( sort of)
Or get rid of too much power. Well…
Soemthing like that

 

[chris123]

I have seen some modern steam engines cast with very complex cores; the german guy, I forget his name, made his own design and had a foundry cast it in gray iron. It took two attempts by a professional foundry to get a complete fill.

Making the cores for one piston valve and one D-valve would not really be any different if they were located between the cylinders, or at the outsides of the cylinders. It would probably be easier to support the cores if they were located on the ends of the cylinders.

As far as machining, using a D-valve between the cylinders could make for some tricky machining, since you would have to reach in.
Like a 20hp Stanley steam auto engine, with two D-valves between the cylinders; you have to reach in to machine the valve faces.

Long castings can be tricky to fill, and you have to make sure one end does not solidify first and draw molten metal from the other end.

It is an impressive cylinder casting, in my opinion, and impressive machining too.
.

Hi green twin
I saw actually the “ ports”. Filler and air
I shoot a pic

 

[chris123]

Hi green twin
I saw actually the “ ports”. Filler and air
I shoot a pic

I think

 

[GreenTwin]

Parting lines maybe.
.

 

[chris123]

Parting lines maybe.
.

Yea
I thought the 2 “ pimpels “ actually
Bud may not

Chris

 

[GreenTwin]

The condenser just condenses the exhaust steam.
The old engines from the 1840's, such as ship engines, used the vacuum created in the condenser to improve efficiency (perhaps all condensers improve efficiency).
You can reclaim the condensate (water) from the condenser and reuse it in the boiler, assuming you can get rid of the oil.
Oil in a boiler can make it foam, which is not a good thing.
In industrial areas with little access to large amounts of boiler feed water, condensers were a must.
.

 

[GreenTwin]

That boss on the end of the cylinder is a bit odd give how large it is.
It is as if they intended to bolt on an accessory, perhaps as others have mentioned, a condenser pump.
.

 

[Steamchick]

Looking at the photo - post #65 - it appears that the crank pins are in-line, so the pistons move together. The valves must therefore be configured so the when the bottom of the HP cylinder is open and exhausting, the LP cylinder must have the top cylinder port opened as the intake to receive the HP exhaust. And vice-versa.
Thus there is no way the pistons can move when at TDC or BDC unless carried-over by inertia from a flywheel.
I suggest the flanges on the ends of the crankshaft will have a flywheel on one end, and a coupling to the propeller shaft on the other end. The flywheel is likely to be a solid cylinder, with the diameter about the same as 2 x the radius to the outer end on the big-end side bars, and the length of the flywheel equal to the diameter. That's what I have used on Marine single engines. And although a Compound Twin, this engine acts dynamically as a single cylinder engine.
K2

 

[Charles Lamont]

I asked about condensers because if the engine had one it could typically have up to four pumps: a feed pump to put water in the boiler, a circulating pump to pump cooling water through the condenser, a so-called 'air-pump' to remove the condensate from the condenser, and a bilge pump.