Mystery steam engine

[chris123]

Hi guys im chris
My mate alan gave me a vertical marine steam engine
Since months i try to find out what make it is so i can get plans and make the missing pieces
Any help is apriciated
Cheers chris
The engine had alu cover and underneath
The fake woodplanks on the top

 

[GreenTwin]

Externally, it looks like pretty much everything is there.
Does it have internal pistons and valves ?

Needs a little TLC, but all things considered is in pretty good condition in my opinion.

.

 

[chris123]

Thank you for the reply
Yes its got 2 pistons …
I make you a pic hang on
Ok did it what about reverse gear?
Stevenson link?
Any ideas about the make??
Thanks heeps anyway
Regards chris

 

[chris123]

Externally, it looks like pretty much everything is there.
Does it have internal pistons and valves ?

Needs a little TLC, but all things considered is in pretty good condition in my opinion.

.

Sorry bro
I replied wrong
Thank you for answering
Soemthing is missing with the reverse gear?
Where i got the plies there is an excentric to
What does this little turn wheel do?
Need info so i could get some plans
Thank you in advance for all
Chris

 

[GreenTwin]

Looks like Stephenson's to me.
So that will give you reversing.

Apparently a compound, since one cylinder (high pressure) is smaller than the other (low pressure).

It has an open frame with round columns on one side.
Stuart made some compound twins, but I am not familiar with them.
I will dig a bit on that.

The cylinders and valves appear to be cast in a monolithic block, which is nice.
Sometimes the compound cylinders and valve chests are cast in multiple pieces.

It looks pretty complete, and looks to be a well designed and well built engine.
Be sure to use WD 40 if you run it, to get any moisture out of the cylinders and valves.

D-valve on the low pressure cylinder, piston valve on the high pressure cylinder.

Take care of that engine, it is a nice one.

Unless you have removed it, there should be an arm mounted on the end of the horizontal valve gear actuating rod, and that arm ties to the horizontal arm that has the round operating handle on it.

The arm would not be too difficult to make.
You could technically operate the engine without it, in one direction only.

I will compare this style with some other engines and see if I can find out more info.
.

 

[GreenTwin]

The Stuart vertical compound engines appear to have the steam chests generally on the outsides of the cylinders, not like yours which are between the cylinders on the inside.

https://www.stuartmodels.com/products/set-of-castings/page/2/

Here is a photo from Preston Services (no my photo).
I think some sort of arm is what you need, similar to this, but not this complex.

 

[GreenTwin]

Also, be cautious about disassembling the engine, especially the eccentrics and valve gear, since it may be very difficult to get the timing set back correctly again.

Can you machine things?
The arm is not a complex thing to fabricate, assuming you know how to fabricate/machine things.

It is a matter of finding the right radius, and matching the holes required on both ends of the arm.

You can reverse-engineer entire engines from photos alone, so the fact that you have an almost comlete engine puts you way ahead of most situations.

.

 

[chris123]

Looks like Stephenson's to me.
So that will give you reversing.

Apparently a compound, since one cylinder (high pressure) is smaller than the other (low pressure).

It has an open frame with round columns on one side.
Stuart made some compound twins, but I am not familiar with them.
I will dig a bit on that.

The cylinders and valves appear to be cast in a monolithic block, which is nice.
Sometimes the compound cylinders and valve chests are cast in multiple pieces.

It looks pretty complete, and looks to be a well designed and well built engine.
Be sure to use WD 40 if you run it, to get any moisture out of the cylinders and valves.

D-valve on the low pressure cylinder, piston valve on the high pressure cylinder.

Take care of that engine, it is a nice one.

Unless you have removed it, there should be an arm mounted on the end of the horizontal valve gear actuating rod, and that arm ties to the horizontal arm that has the round operating handle on it.

The arm would not be too difficult to make.
You could technically operate the engine without it, in one direction only.

I will compare this style with some other engines and see if I can find out more info.
.

 

[chris123]

Wow thank you very much
It was actually in pretty bad nick
Before i did anything i had it about a year layed in diesel
I absolutley apriciate your time
Im not familiar with steam
I do ic engines
I got a workshop shed with lathe and miller
Have been finishing the gnome rotary
By stephen wessel
Got a lot of pics bud only now could figure out how to post
Chris

 

[chris123]

Wow thank you very much
It was actually in pretty bad nick
Before i did anything i had it about a year layed in diesel
I absolutley apriciate your time
Im not familiar with steam
I do ic engines
I got a workshop shed with lathe and miller
Have been finishing the gnome rotary
By stephen wessel
Got a lot of pics bud only now could figure out how to post
Chris

Sorry i forgot i dint remove an arm
It must be missing
Bud will make a boiler for it

 

[GreenTwin]

It is a very nice engine, and perhaps unique and custom made.
It seems to have pressure relief valves on the top of each cylinder, which is pretty rare for models I think.
When using piston valves, there is no way to relieve pressure when you get condensate in the cylinder, such as when starting the engine, unless there is a petcock that can be opened, or unless there is a pressure relieve valve like you appear to have.

Normally you open the petcocks, get the steam flowing, heat the engine and parts, and let the engine rotate slowly to clear out the initial condensed steam (water) from the engine. Once the engine is hot, then you close the petcocks.
Model engines are particularly vulnurable to condensate in the steam line, since model steam lines tend to be small, and are not part of a larger boiler/steam distribution system that would keep the steam lines hot at all times.

For D-valve engines, the valve will lift off of its seat automatically to relieve any water in the cylinder.
Piston valves don't lift off their seat, so without pressure relief of some type, you can break the rod, piston, cylinder head, etc. with a hydraulic water lock.

I know quite a bit about steam engines.
There are some here that know a lot more than I do about steam engines, and perhaps they will also comment.

.

 

[chris123]

It is a very nice engine, and perhaps unique and custom made.
It seems to have pressure relief valves on the top of each cylinder, which is pretty rare for models I think.
When using piston valves, there is no way to relieve pressure when you get condensate in the cylinder, such as when starting the engine, unless there is a petcock that can be opened, or unless there is a pressure relieve valve like you appear to have.

Normally you open the petcocks, get the steam flowing, heat the engine and parts, and let the engine rotate slowly to clear out the initial condensed steam (water) from the engine. Once the engine is hot, then you close the petcocks.
Model engines are particularly vulnurable to condensate in the steam line, since model steam lines tend to be small, and are not part of a larger boiler/steam distribution system that would keep the steam lines hot at all times.

For D-valve engines, the valve will lift off of its seat automatically to relieve any water in the cylinder.
Piston valves don't lift off their seat, so without pressure relief of some type, you can break the rod, piston, cylinder head, etc. with a hydraulic water lock.

I know quite a bit about steam engines.
There are some here that know a lot more than I do about steam engines, and perhaps they will also comment.

.

Thank you very much
I take a pic where u said the connection
Should be to the wheel
I need also a flywheel isnt It.?
Chris

 

[GreenTwin]

To make drawings for an existing engine, I generally take it apart and measure each piece (if I have possesion of the engine).

As I mentioned, be very cautious about disassembling the eccentrics and links, since you could lose the critical timing positions that are required to make this engine function correctly.
With a Stephenson's link, you need to adjust the timing to produce relatively equal valve travel in either the forward or reverse positions, and throughout the travel of the valvegear, and that can be tricky, especially when multipled by two cylinders.

I would not totally disassemble the engine unless it was absolutely necessary.

And my understanding it that some compound engines don't like to run on air, since you don't have the expansiveness of steam, but it can be done.
And I think some compound steam engines use a starting valve, to provide full steam to both cylinders during starting/warmup ?

.

 

[GreenTwin]

I don't think marine compound engines generally had flywheels.
I would not add a flywheel unless there was a problem that required it.

.

 

[chris123]

Thank you very much
I take a pic where u said the connection
Should be to the wheel
I need also a flywheel isnt It.?
Chris

 

[chris123]

The first one maybe a rod
The one with the wheel gears?
Look the excentric is right there also

 

[chris123]

Again thank you very much
I leave it alone until i know what to do
Could make a boiler for it if ther are any plans avalable and suitable for this engine
Regards chris

 

[GreenTwin]

Glancing through prints from old books, here are a few engravings that seem to have similar valvegear and arms.
.

 

[chris123]

To make drawings for an existing engine, I generally take it apart and measure each piece (if I have possesion of the engine).

As I mentioned, be very cautious about disassembling the eccentrics and links, since you could lose the critical timing positions that are required to make this engine function correctly.
With a Stephenson's link, you need to adjust the timing to produce relatively equal valve travel in either the forward or reverse positions, and throughout the travel of the valvegear, and that can be tricky, especially when multipled by two cylinders.

I would not totally disassemble the engine unless it was absolutely necessary.

And my understanding it that some compound engines don't like to run on air, since you don't have the expansiveness of steam, but it can be done.
And I think some compound steam engines use a starting valve, to provide full steam to both cylinders during starting/warmup ?

.

I thought there would be drawings around
To which this engine is made thats what i meant
So i could see how and what bud
As i said before it just came out of the diesel
And i took only the alu clad off and the timber
Because soaked in diesel
And opend the cylinders up so they clean up
Thats all i did
It is pretty stiff to move

Regards chris

 

[GreenTwin]

I am forgetting all my steam engine valvegear names.
I will try to find a good example with the correct labels.

This engine appears to be similar, but not exactly the same as yours.
.