ML4 setup

[goldstar31]

The history of the ML series of lathes suggests that Myford was no different than all the many lathe sellers in the 1930's and who obviously had to produce lathes- at a price. We know from publications from highly authorative writers like Sparey that one of the dominant features in his Amateurs Lathe book that much concerns making new spindles. Again we know that one way of taking up wear was to remove the shims on single clamped cast iron headstocks - and note the adverts for brazed up headstocks! Things improved somewhat with the introduction of phosphor bronze bearings but the records in Model Engineer show that Cleeve replaced the bearings on his ML4 - on an Annual Basis! He and many others noted that Myford had changed the bearings after the war to available lead indium bearings from Glacier-- along with hardened spindles that-- err, couldn't be machines easily. They were lubricated not by silly little oilers that were a relict of penny farthing push bikes but by bloody big sight glass drip feeders. They are still being supplied by RDG amongst others. The ML7 was a light year improvement but there were more available and better ball races which were even imported at vast risk in the bellies of Mosquito bombers. I recall that such steel even in the 1960's that things were so short that wheel bearings were made with half cages and attempts were made to utilise plastics. I knocked wheel bearings out and replaced them on an annual basis on my tuned Mini Cooper! The Myford Super 7 lathe came with a relatively massive bronze front bearing and spindle lubricated with NUTO 32 oil which was only SAE32 hydraulic oil. The remaining spindle bearings were opposed ball races and lubricated with SAE 30 motor oil.

But and I have done my homework carefully as possible, the 7" swing Myford lathe is doing no more than what the earlier machines attempted- and as I have said- were inadequate for the tasks which remain unchanged.

Today, Myford as we knew it is no more. Whatever the full reasons were for its demise, it cannot compete with other competitors. Today people are deluding themselves in failing to accept just how overwhelming today's completion is.

As far as I am concerned, history teaches many things but is best experienced from the comfort of one's arm chair.

It in a workshop? Get real!


Norm

 

[JCSteam]

Two interesting thoughts on the type of oiler, drip fed verses all in one, what I have been doing up until press is filling the cups before starting, and then letting the oil disappear, I have been topping them up after around an hour or so. I believe I'm over oiling them so have been looking for alternative cups. Which might not be so difficult to make but also provide a drip fed system.

I came across a video of a cup with a tube running up the middle to the top of the oil cup. Instead of a wick as most would have, it uses an uncoated steel wire which provides a drip of oil every minute or so.

As for size of hole. There are several sizes, headstock is a plain hole, 1/4" no thread. The other oilers on the lead screw ECT have a small 3/16" hole, then a tapered edge, the lay shaft having a threaded hole that's not been measured yet.

Jon

 

[Blogwitch]

Do not worry about over oiling.
My machines drip oil all over the place, it is the machine that does the cutting, not the oil (or discoloured paintwork).
£20 worth of oil a year is less expensive than hundreds of pounds of machine wear.

John

 

[fcheslop]

If the wall behind the lathe and the bench below it isnt splattered with oil you arnt using enough
In one of the toolrooms of a factory there used to be a shaping machine (remember those) the oilers were simple open pot type with a spring steel pin one end was tapered to adjust oil flow the other end was triangular and sat inside the pot with a push fit and you simply pulled it up for more oil pushed it in for less .Guess it was an ell cheapo way of making adjustable oilers. I think Senfits Poppin uses the same idea the drawings are on the John Tom site
cheers

 

[JCSteam]

Thanks John, and Frazer, like I said apart from a bit of mess, over oiling won't damage the lathe. Even just making larger reservoir cups with a lid will be an improvement. RDG sell little oil cups with a lid that will be suitable but I fancy making them, (Just a start of a long journey repairing and doing up the lathe). I'll check out the website and see what I find.

 

[JCSteam]

Frazer I recently saw a shaper at a guys that I went to see last week. Could be very handy for certain tooling.

 

[fcheslop]

They are a handy bit of kit if a little slow
Although for me I simply dont need one as once the Rider is finished I dont think I will ever build anything that merits having one . Im returning back to my boat building steam and maybe a Stirling engined one .Then I will have covered land sea and air
cheers

 

[goldstar31]

Jon

I see Malcolm Butler in Ashington is advertising a early ML for spares for £50 on HomeWorkshop. co uk site.

Cheers

N

 

[JCSteam]

Well I made a start on some oil cups for the headstock today, that's after I'd adjusted the grubscrews on the headstock, (butt clenching after all the warnings, but following Norms post above, I felt I may have a back up if things went belly up).

With the three jaw chuck mounted I started to turn brass, but the tools had too much top rake, had two dig ins, and then it flew out the chuck, so abandoned brass for now. While turning the brass I had heard clunks, and the finish wasn't brilliant, like the work was jumping. I knew the brass was in the chuck tight, and wasn't taking heavy cuts. I decided it was time to look at what was causing the knock.

I held the 3 jaw with both hands firm and lifted upward, CLUNK, tried again same result. I got a flat bladed screw driver and tentatively went to screw the grub screws that adjust the tension. They were loose, so I nipped them up to just passed where they started to grip, I've now noted their position so will become part of my daily start up procedure of the lathe, when oiling the pots, checking the position of the screws.

Anyhow Aluminium what a lovely material to machine, like cutting through butter. Will post some pics tomorrow when I've finished the oil pots for the headstock, nice shiny Ali.

 

[goldstar31]

Interesting! I was having a spot of deja-vu, and thought that it was about time that Jon got around to some proper tool grinding and scribbled a note about a crap piece of junk in the form of Malbenbut's advert.

With a £20 or so for a cheap 6" double ended grinder and a few bits of studding and MBB's box of spare Myford parts, it would be possible to knock up and rather versatile tool and cutter grinder- not really unlike the Stent which I have. Apart from the exotica which can also be done, one could conceivably make 'flat top tools' suitable for brass

And then I noted that it was only 4AM-- and went back to bed.

Interesting - perhaps?

N

 

[JCSteam]

I'll get around to the grinder, and some HSS blanks.

I actually thought that the sales ad yould written about was to do with spares for the lathe, saddle top slide compound ect. There in a lot better Nick on his machine than mine.

We're you meaning to build a grinder from the lathe parts?

 

[fcheslop]

Jon, for brass you only need to grind side and face no top rake required and I use the same for alloy
cheers

 

[goldstar31]

Were you meaning to build a grinder from the lathe parts?

Why not? Or if you wanted, you could change this to being a dividing head:hDe:

Before rushing off to pen yet another question, you should check what was written.

If you stop and think it is surprising what happens. My bits from my Quorn fit the Kennet and the bits from one of my dividing heads fits the mill and also goes onto the Clarkson and All the tapers fit lathes and mills and tool and cutter grinders. And , of course, the 'new' Sieg S4 lathe takes the vertical slide which was a left over from my Zyto which probably was an inferior to the ML4-- and so ad infinitum .

Always remember that the greatest unexplored part of this world is generally to be found under one's hat.

Cheers and that


Norm

 

[JCSteam]

Jon, for brass you only need to grind side and face no top rake required and I use the same for alloy
cheers

Yes I know, the tool really didn't have much top rake on it, just a quick touch of the grinder.

The issue was the headstock bearings, causing the spindle to jump, this put the tool below center hieght, which lead to the brass walking up the tool, leading to the dig in.

After I'd tightened the grub screws and the movement was gone from the spindle the work turned lovely. In Ali anyway, thought I'd give up on brass for the day.

 

[JCSteam]

Norm interesting thoughts, (as always), if you just spelled it out for me sometimes would be a lot easier. I like the idea of a dividing head, and vertical slide. Wouldn't need too much adaption would it

 

[fcheslop]

Well those bearings must be like an a+++se in a pot hmmm

 

[JCSteam]

I'll let you have a look over it when you come around. Once I'd tightened the grubs up there was no movement of the spindle. Worried at how they had come loose enough for them to cause so much movement.

 

[goldstar31]

Please refrain from 'Shouting'

 

[fcheslop]

shouting whos shouting eh though he was writing big so older members like me could read it
Lets try and get this sorted asap or its just going to become frustrating to say the least
Next week m-machine so I will have a couple of hours spare re mail youre tel no
cheers

 

[JCSteam]

Sorry I had written the response and it looked tiny writing so I had enlarged it a little. Obviously too much. Sorry!

I've sent you my number in a previous message, I'll get the measurements you asked for over to you today. After I finish work