Micro-milling machine for the dirt-poor

[checkedout]

OK. As I may have already made obvious, I'm not a machinist. I've been working on my next kinetic sculpture since finishing my walking machine (see my older thread about that).

I've been looking for a small (micro) milling-esque machine to put on my covered back-deck workbench.

I have kids, so, of course, I don't have any money. Maybe I'll be able to afford an actual house with a garage someday. Until then, since I own two Dremels, and most of the substrates I work with are hard plastics, aluminum, and wood, I was thinking of getting a mill vice and a this Dremel drill-press.

After reading the reviews and looking at some detailed photos, maybe this won't live up to even my low expectations/abilities. Maybe it will. Not positive.

So, in comes this dude who set up the company Vanda-Lay Industries. (Kudos to him for grabbing that name and NOT getting sued by Seinfeld). They make an Acra Mill tool that seems like it might be a good fit for a cheapo like me.

If I had the money and the space to 'do it right', I'd probably come at this from a different angle. But since the parts I've been making have all been small, and it looks like this is reasonably well-built, I figured I'd ask the experts here.

From what I've seen, it looks like the next step up would be something like the Taig MicroMill or the MicroLux R8 but those are several hundred dollars more, and I'd need to invest in a new set of bits to do my work. I already have a small collection of rotary bits for my Dremels. AND, I don't think I could get my wife to authorize spending the dough for the more expensive models. I'm not even sure I could get the authorization to get the Vanda-Lay one.

The workbench footprint that I have available is around 18" x 20"... though that would be tight. Sucks living in a condo.

Any suggestions? I'll keep searching and share updates.

If this has been thoroughly covered in another thread, I apologize in advance. I'd be happy to delete this thread and just go there. I did a cursory search and didn't find it.

 

[barnesrickw]

I have a Taig mill and lathe. Bought the lathe first with a milling attachment. Also bought eye Dremel attachment for the lathe. They are useful and have served me well, but what I have found out is you need to make accessories to get the most out of them. To some extent, this seems to be true of most machines. I have both machines mounted to a 2" X 3" bench in my shed with a rollaway tool box under the bench and a machinist toolbox on a shelf. It works for me.

More people own the Chinese mini-mills and lathes under various paint schemes. Ive heard the quality can vary depending on who rebadged the machine. I've never used one, but I can only assume they are good machines because I've seen some really nice work come off of them.

As for the kids, mine are 24 and 21. I still have no room, or money. Better learn to work with what you have.

 

[Cymro77]

I have a Microlux micro mill and a Microlux micro lathe. The mill gave me problems within the first year - it was still under warranty when the motor started to come apart. I contacted the seller Micro Mark. Their response was to tell me I had to buy a new motor. It was still under warranty they did not care. The mill continues to function after I jury rigged the motor. Now the spindle drops an eigthth of an inch and I cannot find any way to correct it. The lathe is underpowered, controls are either too tight or too loose, there is no compound on the cross feed and no room to put one. I am sick of adjusting and readjusting the gibs. I would not recommend Micro Mark. I am now looking for new tools from another source. Guess I will have to pay more money to get what works.

 

[vederstein]

My (probably) worthless 2 cents:

I think your best bet is to watch ebay and craigslist for something to come up. Perhaps you can find a closeout SEIG X1 micro-mill for cheap.

I have trouble believing it, but this guy actually built a PMR #6CI on a Micromill and Mini-lathe.

I'm of the opinion it's better not to buy anything than buy something woefully inadequate.

Unfortunately, metalwork requires a rigid setup and a rigid setup requires mass. Mass is expensive.

...Ved.

 

[checkedout]

... As for the kids, mine are 24 and 21. I still have no room, or money. Better learn to work with what you have.

Wait! They don't turn into free-money fountains at some point???
:disillusionment face:

Great points though. Thank you.
I'll keep up the research.

Cymro77: Thanks for the input. Sorry to hear about your woe with Microlux, but I really appreciate the warning. Great points.

vederstein. Agreed. I think I need to let go of these crazy dreams and wait for the right time to make a serious purchase... I'm thinking probably in the $800+ range.







... edit. I think THIS just made me pee a little.

Now. Off to sell that superfluous kidney.
It's not like I'm really using BOTH of them anyway...

 

[barnesrickw]

I don't know what the kidney brings on the market, but I do know it costs $125,000 to get a transplant from the University of Michigan. 😊

 

[ShopShoe]

checkout,

What is the largest piece you can reasonably expect to have to put in your machine? The smaller machines are very limited in terms of what size of workpiece they can handle and still allow room for work holding and tooling to do what you want.

If you don't have the need for screw cutting on your lathe, you can live with the Taig lathe or similar, otherwise you will have to spend money to get a machine that has that capability.

Another option may be to look at Sherline (I have no affiliation with them, but many members here and elsewhere use them to make incredible projects.) Although combination machines are not usually desirable, the Sherline components make use of modular design, so that you can buy a lathe and then buy the parts to change it into a small milling machine.

I believe Taig can do some of this as well, but I have only looked at their lathes and not their milling machines.

Another company I can call to your attention is Proxxon. A few years ago I asked members here about options to replace my old dremel and ended up buying two Proxxon Professional tools (Now model IBS/E). I like these better than the dremel, particularly the really good variable speed up to 20,000 RPM and the collets which do a much better job of holding professional cutters and tools for precision work. Proxxon also makes several other small power tools for detailed work you might find interesting, although I have not tried any of those. (I am not affiliated, etc.)

You may also find references and a chance to get an older Unimat lathe somewhere: There is a community to support these discontinued machines and the people who use them.

Links:


http://www.sherline.com

http://www.taigtools.com

http://www.proxxon.com

http://unimat.homestead.com

Good luck, and keep posting.

--ShopShoe

 

[barnesrickw]

I have a bit of a sentimental attachment to my Taig lathe, but I just inherited a South Bend 9" swing 3 1/2' bed lathe from my uncle. Depending on your timeline, if I can get my SB set up, I may be selling the Taig lathe cheap. If you can find some good used equipment, I think that would be the best option, but the prices can still be as high as $3,000 plus.

 

[checkedout]

I have a bit of a sentimental attachment to my Taig lathe, but I just inherited a South Bend 9" swing 3 1/2' bed lathe from my uncle. Depending on your timeline, if I can get my SB set up, I may be selling the Taig lathe cheap. If you can find some good used equipment, I think that would be the best option, but the prices can still be as high as $3,000 plus.

Thanks for the heads-up barnesrickw. I may want to take you up on that offer. Please let me know what you have, and what you might want for it.

Then again, I still need to sell my Cronite Zero Pantograph. According to some sites, I could yield upward of $4,000 for the unit (maybe more). That ought to provide funds for a good mill.

 

[Wizard69]

If you are only using a dremel at this point you could do a micro CNC router. A dremel is hardly a machine tool spindle so you won't be doing all that much more than you are now. However it in a CNC machine it would let you get started in micro machining.

Now doing a CNC router isn't easy if you aren't shop equipped but it isn't impossible. With a bit of scrounging you may be able to do something for under a grand.

Your other alternatives are Tiag or Sherline type mills. Honestly I wouldn't suggest anything smaller if you are about to invest hard earned money. Having a machine that is too small can be extremely frustrating, on the flip side too big of a machine isn't suitable for micro machining either.

 

[RonGinger]

If you are interested in CNC there are a number of small router bases sold to hold a Dremel type tool. They are surprisingly cheap. Search around ebay or a site like banngood. They have many limitations, the Dremels are not the most accurate tool, but they can be made to work and if used carefully ought to make reasonable parts from wood, plastic or maybe REAL light aluminum.

 

[MRA]

Hiya Checkedout

We're in the same boat - you might want to have a look at the 'modifications' thread I have running on seeing what can and cannot be done with an old pillar drill.

My drill is big, ancient, cast iron, and was free. The 3 axis milling table cost about £20 once I had bought it and sold the Frankenstein components someone else had married it to....but for small jobs a cheapo Chinese x-y vice would do something if you could sort the gibs out, leaving you z on the spindle.

This is all excellent in wood (I use it as a morticer, though space around it is tricky) and nylon (and great for accurately positioning holes for drilling). Up to now I can make 15-20 thou cuts in steel with a good finish - more than this and it chatters considerably - but this is not yet safe as I am awaiting a collet chuck to fit, which will not be relying on Locktight to hold it to a taper as the current drill chuck. Collet chuck and collets were expensive - total about £50, fetch me the smelling salts dear! - but I can also fit this to my lathe (luckily free...) if needs be.

I guess it depends on what we want to do. For me, it's this or nothing for the foreseeable, and 'this' is much more fun than 'nothing'. I should also admit to a bit of inverted snobbery about making things from as close to nothing as I can, though even I eventually gave up fitting used bearings to my bike engines!

 

[james_III]

Your other alternatives are Tiag or Sherline type mills. Honestly I wouldn't suggest anything smaller if you are about to invest hard earned money. Having a machine that is too small can be extremely frustrating, on the flip side too big of a machine isn't suitable for micro machining either.

Me thinks you should figure out what size mill suits you best and then buy one size bigger than actually needed. Nothing beats heavy iron and it is another matter doing something and another going round small machine limitations to get something done. Don't forget to save some money for tooling, machine is only half of total cost. With this formula I ended up to sieg super X3 with long table bought years ago and still buying and making tools needed. Buying more than needed hurts only once. Some day I might end up doing small engine

 

[barnesrickw]

Look into this guy. He has a video out there with the method he used to make his own.

http://www.cartertools.com/jose08.html

 

[Blogwitch]

The cheapest milling machine you can get is a good drill (even a manual one), hacksaw and file.

Us older ones know what it is like to have no milling machine, purely because hobby ones just weren't available at a hobby price, as they are now.

They are not a definite requirement, just saves you a bit of manual work and time.

Save your pennies for a while and get something decent in size, rather than something you will grow out of in a few months.

Bogs

 

[bazmak]

I agree with what you have said Bogs.I agree that that milling machines were
not usually financially available once upon a time.The best i ever could hope for was a vertical slide in the lathe.But with the advent of good quality,small and Cheap chinese mills i would have to say they are now indespensable
Since i bought my sieg sx2 it has done everything asked of it and is a joy to use. To be able to skim to size and square rough HRS without hacksaw file etc
is a dream.And the pleasure in making tooling for it that would normally be unaffordable.Knowing what i know now i would not go back.Just to think on my first loco,where possible i was making castings from ms with hacksaw and file
I remember 3 days of hard work making a frame stretcher from solid.I also envy the next step up to CNC,but im too old to start now.I must admit i like
the old manual way,using the skills taught as an apprentice.When learning
i would not have imagined i would still be using them 50 yrs later

 

[barnesrickw]

When I woodwork, it's only hand tools because I love that process. Never thought of doing the same for metal. Well lesson learned, but now that I have my mill.

 

[Blogwitch]

Baz,

I wasn't trying to stop him buying a mill, just postpone it a little until something more manly came along.

The number of second hand, small, nearly new machines I have seen advertised for sale beggars disbelief, the same goes for lathes as well, always get the largest you can afford or accomodate.

BTW, I WILL get into CNC eventually, I have absolutely everything needed to make one, including a brand new Sieg SX2 Plus sitting under my covered way, unfortunately my body doesn't want me to make it just yet.

Bogs

 

[Wizard69]

Me thinks you should figure out what size mill suits you best and then buy one size bigger than actually needed. Nothing beats heavy iron and it is another matter doing something and another going round small machine limitations to get something done. Don't forget to save some money for tooling, machine is only half of total cost. With this formula I ended up to sieg super X3 with long table bought years ago and still buying and making tools needed. Buying more than needed hurts only once. Some day I might end up doing small engine

Well it depends upon what the poster means by Micro machining. A large machine can be a huge disadvantage if it isn't CNC based. Generally I'm the type of guys that goes big however micro machining, at least in the way I use the term often benefits from a smaller machine if you are attempting this sort of work manually. You have to be able to feel what is going on to a finer extent than what you can get out of a Bridgeport class machine.

Also buying more than needed often outs one in the poor house idling a machine until you can catch up with tooling and fixtures. This has happened to me when I purchased something on the expensive side and had to wait for tooling. Long term it might be a good thing to have the more expensive machine, just fully equipping it takes longer.

Don't mis understand me here, I know the heart ache of buying the wrong (cheaper) machine and then realizing a year or two later that you should have stepped up a model. I do a bit of wood working and this is my experience with the miter saw. I should have invested in a slider but made a decision with my wallet instead of my brain. So yeah you can be right but but not in every case.