Measurement equipment

[Ryan]

So an industrial tool shop nearby sells mainly Starret products so I finished up with 799A/150 digital calipers (the latest model), 444 0-25mm micrometer and a set of Chinese telescopic bore gauges. I noticed you only get a micrometer standard with 25-50mm and larger. Is it sufficient to just close the mic. and zero it with the supplied spanner? I thought I can then use the mic. to periodically check the calipers. I have one of those flat steel protractors which is not terribly useful. Anyone have the need for a vernier protractor? or a halfway decent combination set is fine? ( I already have anengineers square)

anyone have experience with this Measumax brand that H&F sell (at somewhat expensive prices for presumably imports)? Mesumax's website seems to have a dubious lack of contact details or company information.

 

[///]

anyone have experience with this Measumax brand that H&F sell (at somewhat expensive prices for presumably imports)? Mesumax's website seems to have a dubious lack of contact details or company information.

I haven't used any of the MX gear.
MeasumaX is a tradename belonging to H&F : http://www.ipaustralia.com.au/applicant/hare-and-forbes-pty-limited/trademarks/1108240/
The New Zealand version lists the directors as Stephen and Michael Hare (as in HARE & Forbes) : http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/2374340/detail

 

[gus]

the trick to extending the battery life on the Mit micrometer and some other digital's is to set the spindle lock often just the vibration on a tool box or work bench will keep turning it on

Hi Chrs,

Thanks for the tip.
One tip for all. Buy Japanese batteries,they last n last. Stay away from Chinese batteries. And stay away from Chinese Digitals,they eat batteries.

 

[wakeup]

I don't have DROs on my machines. Yes I understand the value of DROs and its not the presence of a battery that stops me getting them.
I'm also familiar with the PC battery. Several times at work, and a couple of times here at home the PC battery has died and required a panic to replace it.
Measuremax is generic stuff. Not particularly good, or bad. I have a 5mm to 30mm inside micrometer which is ok, but feels a little course (like its full of sand, yes I have taken it to bits cleaned and carefully reassembled, it still feels like its full of sand) The thread looks like it's been carved by hand with a stone axe, compared to the Moore and Wright. That may be an overstatement.
So there is an element of you get what you pay for.
cheers
wakeup
ps Don't fully close your 0-25mm micrometers, leave a gap between the anvils, or (lightly) close on a clean piece of paper

 

[Ryan]

This seems a bit stange. Dividers, inside and outside calipers are all readily available with bow spring. Jenny/odd leg are usually only available in firm joint/slip joint. Why? do I need odd leg, or can spring dividers and digital calipers do the same job?

 

[Tin Falcon]

do I need odd leg

ryan I have several sets of inside outside calipers in my box boxes. I do not use them much but are handy for transferring measurements fro a part to a measuring tool.

dividers are used for layout. you can scribe a circle with them and divide a line or circle into even divisions. Jenny/odd leg /hermaphrodite calipers I use they are handy to layout a shoulder line in a lathe or lay out a line parallel to a edge.
I am talking the kind with one caliper *** and a point like a divider.
Tin

 

[Tinkerer58]

As wakeup says regarding Chinese threads they are not capable of making a thread. I am in the bearing industry and we import bearings from China and Korea. At one stage we were bringing in adaptor and withdrawal sleeves and lock nuts, the threads were manufactured by kids using a cold chisel they were shockers. Then we thought we will get some samples from India, they were even worse. These days we have our own office in China and everything is made to our specifications, we have even decided that our manufacturers can only buy steel from 3 plants that we have audited. We are getting some very good quality product out of China but then again we have been doing this for over 35 years. We supply Holden with strut bearings, we also used to manufacture the wheel hubs units for the AU Ford Falcon and have been supplying Victa for 32 years. We now do a lot for the mining industry and my part is in sales and engineering both in bearings and other engineering components like large hubs and axle assemblies for both mining and agricultural uses. Over the last 8 years or so the quality from China has improved dramatically, but in saying that be very very careful who you buy from. A trap for young players in China is that a lot of people see these wonderful factories on their web sites and when you visit them the pics are from other factories and we have also had it where they are just export agents and bribe a factory to stick their sign over the top of the factory's sign to make it look like it is their factory. Only experience in buy and dealing in China will save you from tears and an empty wallet. Careful when going on to Alibaba or Made In China sites you will get burnt by junk and pretty scrap metal from backyard shed factories, and NO Warranty claims will be entertained, it's buy at your own risk.

 

[Tin Falcon]

IMHO the rule with Chinese import micrometers and the like buyer beware and try before you buy.
I have heard good and bad experiences and had good and bad experiences . The quality can vary with the same item number from the same store.
Tin

 

[Cogsy]

\ I am in the bearing industry... we also used to manufacture the wheel hubs units for the AU Ford Falcon

Do you work for SKF by any chance, or maybe CBC?? Just curious as I've worked for both in the last 13 years.

 

[Tinkerer58]

I agree with Tin Falcon, quality control as we know it is generally based on if it looks OK that will be fine. The reason for variations of quality are numerous with Chinese product. They get paid by the amount of output so spending too much time making sure things are correct means lower output and less pay. The other main reason is that everyone copies products and the same machine or tool will have different model numbers but look the same, some built in good factories under the control of larger foreign companies who own the design. But the smaller companies will do work under contract to foreign companies who supply drawing and pay for tooling but they never own the tooling, if the volume is not large enough they than make or sell the designs with changes to smaller operators who build the cheap copies in backyard like conditions, and their backyard conditions make our home workshops look like state of the art operations.
So BE WARE VERY AWARE when spending your hard earned.

No Cogsy I work for General Bearing Co. SKF do Chinese bearings but they will never admit it, they have a partnership with a company in China called ZWZ and have had for many years, yet deny it veermently to the point they have tried to take legal action against other Brg Co's who have reported the fact to some of their clients.

 

[gus]

As wakeup says regarding Chinese threads they are not capable of making a thread. I am in the bearing industry and we import bearings from China and Korea. At one stage we were bringing in adaptor and withdrawal sleeves and lock nuts, the threads were manufactured by kids using a cold chisel they were shockers. Then we thought we will get some samples from India, they were even worse. These days we have our own office in China and everything is made to our specifications, we have even decided that our manufacturers can only buy steel from 3 plants that we have audited. We are getting some very good quality product out of China but then again we have been doing this for over 35 years. We supply Holden with strut bearings, we also used to manufacture the wheel hubs units for the AU Ford Falcon and have been supplying Victa for 32 years. We now do a lot for the mining industry and my part is in sales and engineering both in bearings and other engineering components like large hubs and axle assemblies for both mining and agricultural uses. Over the last 8 years or so the quality from China has improved dramatically, but in saying that be very very careful who you buy from. A trap for young players in China is that a lot of people see these wonderful factories on their web sites and when you visit them the pics are from other factories and we have also had it where they are just export agents and bribe a factory to stick their sign over the top of the factory's sign to make it look like it is their factory. Only experience in buy and dealing in China will save you from tears and an empty wallet. Careful when going on to Alibaba or Made In China sites you will get burnt by junk and pretty scrap metal from backyard shed factories, and NO Warranty claims will be entertained, it's buy at your own risk.

Hi Tinkerer,
I am in the same boat. A Chinese Compressor Plant bought manufacturing license from us and part of the agreement,we will buy some compressors .

The first shipment made in 1990 was 50% scrapped due to poor casting finish. A bitter lesson taught and learnt with the plant G.M. removed and a new team came in.And there after we receive very good casting finish which was far superior to USA and Indian Plants.

Ball bearings. We were buying from military plants and their products were of very high quality. Overnite quality went down the drain when these suppliers went private. Piston rings too. Aluminium pistons get seized.
Gudgeon Pins too tight or too loose. Finger valves made by the best in Hefei
break up. Chinese oil seals is garbage. We import from Taiwan and slept in peace.

Chinese ISO is only good as the banner hung all over the plant and in brochures. Gus got his Singapore Plant qualified for ISO 9002 in 1997 and kept it going for next four years with regular in-palnt audits and bi-annual audits by registrar.Go into any Chinese ISO plant and ask any employee to quote "Quality Statement",you get a blank reply. Ask to see the copy of the last regular in-plant quality audit report same reply.

I got off a local China flight when I was told the passenger aircraft was local made.

Gus is now happily retired. Now no more China jobs.

 

[gus]

Chinese Quality and ISO.

Spent 7 years of my retirement in China to help them make compressors. Initially quality was passable but when big and regular orders poured in. Quality suffered and my boss nearly went broke.
Took my advice and quality stabilised for next 4 years and bad quality came back staring at me.

June 2011, tendered my resignation by SMS. Hung up Hphone/email. July/August built and completed Tractor Engine. And since many more.

 

[Tinkerer58]

Yeah Gus in China if they have Quality Assurance Certificate check and make sure the company that issued it and audits them is European, American or International company, Chinese Certification is not worth the paper it's written on, I wouldn't even use it to hang on the toilet wall because the ink wouldn't be dry when you get there to inspect it. But a lot of this quality certification is a farce, it does not improve Quality it only documents what your doing and your proceedures and traceablity. If your manufacturing junk it documents your manufacturing junk and how to trace it through the system. Most of it is a farce for big certification companies to make money on audits and certification. The audits just make sure what is written in your quality documents is adhered to and followed and it doesn't matter if the practises are good or bad as long as you follow them then your audits will pass. This is of course not so with companies who are dedicated to building quality product, but smaller comapnies use it to look good and this is specially the case in China, and most will still try to use their expired certification because they didn't pass their audits. So check before you buy.

 

[gus]

Yeah Gus in China if they have Quality Assurance Certificate check and make sure the company that issued it and audits them is European, American or International company, Chinese Certification is not worth the paper it's written on, I wouldn't even use it to hang on the toilet wall because the ink wouldn't be dry when you get there to inspect it. But a lot of this quality certification is a farce, it does not improve Quality it only documents what your doing and your proceedures and traceablity. If your manufacturing junk it documents your manufacturing junk and how to trace it through the system. Most of it is a farce for big certification companies to make money on audits and certification. The audits just make sure what is written in your quality documents is adhered to and followed and it doesn't matter if the practises are good or bad as long as you follow them then your audits will pass. This is of course not so with companies who are dedicated to building quality product, but smaller comapnies use it to look good and this is specially the case in China, and most will still try to use their expired certification because they didn't pass their audits. So check before you buy.

Hi Tinkerer,
My very own December 1997 ISO 9002 Registration Cert. was accredited by 2 other international bodies. And these bodies audit each other. My boss's factory no other accreditation and no regular internal audits.
While doing quality audits on potential suppliers in Nanjing,China , I was proudly shown expired/unrenewed ISO Certs.which I pointed out to owner.
The good reason was the new Cert has yet to arrive!!!! Ha Ha Ha.
I also came across Micrometers with expired Calibration Stickers.Oh.We have new Mikes coming tomorrow.

Taiwan Suppliers,
I was invited to join a team doing internal audits.

Singapore Suppliers.
Hang up no ISO banners but just an enlarged Quality Statement and valid ISO Cert. on the main office lobby wall.

Some of our current suppliers have no ISO and they were our best raw casting suppliers.We sort of grandfathered them on to our certified supplier list.