Making a Samurai Sword

[Tin Falcon]

Another PBS Nova full length documentary on ancient blade smithing.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/secrets-samurai-sword.html
on my to watch list.
Tin

 

[Beachside_Hank]

That was a good documentary, it's surprising to find the legendary curve is a byproduct of the laminating/ cladding process. Adherents to the Japanese code of Bushido learned a variety of fighting skills including the bow, which according to legend, before one let fly his first arrow he would spend an entire year just perfecting his draw. Makes me scoff at Tom Cruise becoming a Samurai in 90 seconds , fully accepted by the clan.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Watched the film. pretty amazing. I always choke on the explanations of heat treating the documentaries never really explain heat treating they only mention part of the process. Looks like they forge them from a bloom. Looks like they weld a mild steel spline in the carbon steel blank . I now rememeber a blade smith doing a demo at a local blacksmith meet demonstrating the clay pattern method that is used for catanas. the secret ingredient is clumping kitty litter. LOL.
Tin

 

[gus]

Hi Guys,
At a dinner gathering in China,I voiced my admiration for the much hated samurai sword.(Hated because they chopped off so many Chinese heads).Sitting next to me was a gentleman very well versed in Chinese history and ancient Chinese technological advancement hundreds or thousands years ago. The samurai sword was a carbon copy of the Tang Dynasty sword---------
"Tang Tau" aka "Tang Sword". During this period the Japanese were importing our engineering skills.One of my vendors,Okamoto Foundry proudly showed me records of his ancestors getting approval from the Shogun to permit employment of 100 artisans skilled in Cast Foundry in the 15th Century. These 100 Chinese artisans settled down and assimilated into the Japanese race.Besides the iron sand there were family secret additives.After the grinding and polishing,it appears to have some stainless steel alloys too. The "cat sheet" coating is one of them.The hardening and tempering technics is another.They read hardening and tempering temperature by eyeball.The sword is made tough thru folding the hot metal many times. I am not surprised they imported Chinese Sword Smiths too. They in fact imported about every thing----chinese writing/music/literature/medicine.Their names are written in Chinese.Their Imperial Court have musicians playing ancient chinese imperial court music(nan Yin).
When Gus travels in Japan,he could read the street/city names in Chinese characters.Yhe Japanese Buddhist Temples were built in out "Tang Dynasty" style with curve roof eaves. Taking their underground was fun.
Reading their newspapers takes a bit of guessing with about 6---8 Chinese text in one sentence but I got the picture.
Gus is taking his "better half" to Osaka Feb 8----13 2013. Tokyu Hands here I come.The fishing tackle shops too.

 

[Herbiev]

When I was doing my blacksmiths course our tutor used to use condemned crane cables, when heated he would include borax and very fine sand, then flatten, fold, flatten and fold several times. Ended up with a very long HSS parting blade. Magic to watch.

 

[gus]

When I was doing my blacksmiths course our tutor used to use condemned crane cables, when heated he would include borax and very fine sand, then flatten, fold, flatten and fold several times. Ended up with a very long HSS parting blade. Magic to watch.

Seeing is believing.
Was on Singapore TV. The only surviving swordsmith in Southern Taiwan would put some human bones into the forge when the sword is in the last stage of taking final form. Was a family secret.Human bones have some traces of elements that the sword blank will absorbed and give it some properties etc.He swears by it. The material use was Spring Steel and its got to be ex-UK or ex-Germany.Another trade secret!!!!! Japanese spring steel not so good.

 

[dman]

i would love to some day learn some ancient metal working. not that i believe i could master it or anything. i find it amazing they figured out forging, transformation temperatures, hardening and tempering, as well as precipitation of grain refining elements. all without instrumentation to monitor temperature or read hardness.

 

[gus]

Some updates.
While surfing the net,I trolled some interesting info from the Ming Dynasty(14----16th Century A.D.) period of China.In the 16th century,Japan was having more than its fair share of civil wars which made many Samurais into Ronins ( rogue samurais) and many of them became pirates raiding the then prosperous eastern Chinese coastal cities which export silk and porcelain to Europe and Middle East.

They robbed and plundered these coastal cities and routing the Ming foot soldiers with their superior samurai swords aka Katanas which easily chopped off the Ming cheapy broadswords.
Many Chinese Generals came down from the capital city of Changan(Today Sian) and were defeated/shamed and executed for losing to Japanese Pirates.A low ranking General Chi Zhi Guang was given the Imperial Decree/ Mandate(Win or Die) to defeat these Ronins.
The problems were ID. Poor Morale,Military Training,Corruption and poor quality weapons had to be fixed. The poor quality Broad Sword had to be replaced with a high tech sword. Eventually they came out with a longer sword forged with ''new technology and steel'' to counter the Katana. These new '' Chi" Ming Sword could severe the Katana. The Ronins were defeated and annihilated and scourge totally eradicated. Centuries later the art of making this high tech sword was lost forever. Not a single sword was found and the steel formula lost.
General Chi went on to beef up the Great Wall of China to counter the Manchus and Mongolians.

Today the same Samurai Sword is revered over the superior ''Ming Sword". The Ming Sword Smithies are dead and gone and today nobody goes to China to see how Chinese Swords are made.Chinese Sword Smiths cannot survive just making swords which are no longer in use and not even as Chinese Army Ceremonial Swords. There are a few smithies making very expensive Chinese Swords but they are only good looking collectors' swords. Recycled spring steel is the usual material.
Ancient Chinese Sword Smiths were poorly paid. Highly skilled and proven Sword Smiths were usually murdered after producing a superior sword for his War Lord. The ''born loser'' War Lord
cannot have another sword superior to his.

 

[goldstar31]

Ah Yes. Tempering was done with Virgins' Urine. So the books say.

Certainly ordinary urine and horses hooves were commonplace- when I was a kid

Norman

 

[gus]

Some of this hocus pocus may have worked.
Lard was proven as a good tapping lubricant. Just imagine the chap who first suggested Lard for tapping.Coconut Oil used for threading water pipes.
The ancient Chinese used Borax to tenderise tough meat and today still in use. Borax was/is used by Japanese Samurai Sword Smithy to forge weld soft iron to steel. Borax is a controlled chemical in Singapore. Caustic Soda is used to expand and tenderise dried squid to their original size. I have heard of Sodium Chloride being used as a degassing compound for molten Aluminum. Household vinegar used to pickle galvanised sheet steel as a bonding agent for paint to adhere to.

 

[goldstar31]

Coconut oil was thebasis of shampoo. Borax is the main constituent in washing machine/ dishwashers with Sodium Chloride( Common salt) but when mixed with sugar kills cockroaches DEAD. Borax is - as we all know- the flux for silver soldering/brazing.Common salt is good for salt baths. Vinegar is acetic acid which is for a thousand uses. Of hand, it is for pickling with spices and sauces. It also removes burnt on borax flux and is a general cleaner for most things like floors, baths and windows. You may pay more for it in a fancy bottle but most of it is vinegar. Caustic soda is good for drains, good for rusting things together, cleaning off paints and varnishes and 'getting rid of your mother in law' quietly.

I like acetic acid before the vinegar fly gets at the wine. To use the words of the Prophet- Hic!

Then you can put the beer in the freezer and get the alcohol out. Hic!

And if you are sick, you get hydrochloric/muriatic acid.

Cheers- from a sometimes very boozy Norman! Just finished off 3 litres- with a bit of help from a lady who used to be a very capable silver solderer.