Machine Tool Gearbox Maintenance Question

[ShopShoe]

Reading mikbul's postings regarding his Southbend 8K and coming to gambit_mb's need to clean out his headstock gearbox raises some questions for me.

Gambit is going to wash out his gearbox with WD-40 and then relube with 20W motor oil (USA), which he can get locally.

I wonder if WD-40 is the best solvent. In other (car, ag machine, misc.) gearbox situations I have had recommendations to use Kerosene for flushing-out and cleaning purposes. I use WD-40 for a lot of things, but I realize that its main purpose is Water Displacement, rather than lubrication. Would kerosene (paraffin?outside US?) be a better flusher-outer solvent?

Regarding the 20W oil, I use this on my Grizzly 4063 (X3) mill per Grizzly's recommendation, and also on my mini-lathe. I keep a separate pump oilcan ready with it. I have searched high and low to find Non-detergent 20W oil as I have had many recommendations to avoid detergent oil. Non-detergent oil is not easily found in my area, but persistence pays off and I keep it in stock.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge of lubricant and solvent properties can comment.

--ShopShoe

 

[Swifty]

If I was going to wash out the headstock, I would use diesel fuel. It should absorb any muck and it's oily anyway, so there should be no lasting problems. I recently changed the headstock oil and the recommendation was to refill with hydraulic oil, I recall that we used this oil at work on the lathes.

Paul.

 

[mikbul]

Reading mikbul's postings regarding his Southbend 8K and coming to gambit_mb's need to clean out his headstock gearbox raises some questions for me.

Gambit is going to wash out his gearbox with WD-40 and then relube with 20W motor oil (USA), which he can get locally.

I wonder if WD-40 is the best solvent. In other (car, ag machine, misc.) gearbox situations I have had recommendations to use Kerosene for flushing-out and cleaning purposes. I use WD-40 for a lot of things, but I realize that its main purpose is Water Displacement, rather than lubrication. Would kerosene (paraffin?outside US?) be a better flusher-outer solvent?

Regarding the 20W oil, I use this on my Grizzly 4063 (X3) mill per Grizzly's recommendation, and also on my mini-lathe. I keep a separate pump oilcan ready with it. I have searched high and low to find Non-detergent 20W oil as I have had many recommendations to avoid detergent oil. Non-detergent oil is not easily found in my area, but persistence pays off and I keep it in stock.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge of lubricant and solvent properties can comment.

--ShopShoe

Gambit already had the lathe in his basement otherwise I would have recommended clear mineral spirits. Also I didn't know he was going to pull the spindle. I believe JD hyguard is around 20 weight or ISO68, JD low viscosity is around ten weight or ISO32. There are equivalent hydraulic fluids at tractor supply.

 

[ShopShoe]

Thanks for the answers: I was just wondering ....

Swifty, I had forgotten about Diesel fuel. I did use that years ago to flush a car gearbox. I guess my mind wants to keep away from too many types of "fuel" in my shop.

Mikbul, I do use mineral spirits as a general solvent: glad to see I have not been wrong to use it. Thank you for the information on equivalent oils.

--ShopShoe

 

[terryzilla]

I am not familiar with the ins and outs of the Southbend 8K headstock gearboxes, but if the spindle bearings will run in the the gearbox oil you must use non-detergent. It don't take much detergent oil to cause problems. Just topping of a gearbox with do it. The crud particles will stay in suspension and walk through the gearbox bearings. It will start showing up in surface finishes of your parts and and also on the dial indicator. Then you will gut the whole thing and replace all the bearings. Don't ask me how I know this. Actually all bearings were open so I probably could have just cleaned and moved on. But I didn't.

Mikbul's suggestions match what my oil suppliers recommend. Decent hydraulic fluid.

Terry

 

[Walltoddj]

Interesting question when I got my DoAll lathe one of the first things I did was drain all the oils and filled with fresh clean oil AW32 for the head, gearbox, and way lube for the apron. I also added Rislone with is an engine cleaner to break down the gunk that may be in there. This was run for about three month then I drained everything again and did fresh oils again. Seems to work ok and upon checking the fluids they look good.

Todd

 

[Wizard69]

Reading mikbul's postings regarding his Southbend 8K and coming to gambit_mb's need to clean out his headstock gearbox raises some questions for me.



Gambit is going to wash out his gearbox with WD-40 and then relube with 20W motor oil (USA), which he can get locally.

I must have missed that one. I would not use WD40 at all to clean bearings. WD40 can dry leaving a film on metal surfaces.

I wonder if WD-40 is the best solvent.

Realistically it isn't even a solvent.

In other (car, ag machine, misc.) gearbox situations I have had recommendations to use Kerosene for flushing-out and cleaning purposes. I use WD-40 for a lot of things, but I realize that its main purpose is Water Displacement, rather than lubrication. Would kerosene (paraffin?outside US?) be a better flusher-outer solvent?

Or use commercial solvents made for the purpose. I hope you realize that Kerosene is flammable.

Regarding the 20W oil, I use this on my Grizzly 4063 (X3) mill per Grizzly's recommendation, and also on my mini-lathe. I keep a separate pump oilcan ready with it. I have searched high and low to find Non-detergent 20W oil as I have had many recommendations to avoid detergent oil. Non-detergent oil is not easily found in my area, but persistence pays off and I keep it in stock.

Your best bets are to use the oils recommended! Seriously companies spend significant time coming up with these recommendations. Use 20W where recommended, way oil where recommended and grease if it is recommended.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge of lubricant and solvent properties can comment.



--ShopShoe

Well stay away from WD40 for bearing cleaning or flushing. It might work if the bearing is immediately cleaned and greased afterwards. Spend the time to find the proper oils or equivalents otherwise.


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[mikbul]

Need to clear something up, I didn't recommend WD40, I use clear mineral spirits and I've mentioned in some of my posts. Also he was asking if he could use 10w motor oil and I said no use hydraulic fluid. I said Mobil DTE light, JD hyguard low viscosity or equivalent ISO 32 oil.
Post # 115 I said " just get all the grease out and all the WD"
BUT, I didn't think about the film left over so I should have told him not to use it. I do think the trace amount will get mixed with the oil and not be a problem, I could be wrong.
I edited post #3 so nobody reads it and uses WD.
The reason I didn't immediately tell him to use mineral spirits is I thought he was going to flush them in the headstock and with the cover on the chuck side there's not much room get mineral spirits in there but the WD pressured with a tube seemed to me would get the grease out.

 

[Walltoddj]

Need to clear something up, I didn't recommend WD40, I use clear mineral spirits and I've mentioned in some of my posts. Also he was asking if he could use 10w motor oil and I said no use hydraulic fluid. I said Mobil DTE light, JD hyguard low viscosity or equivalent ISO 32 oil.
Post # 115 I said " just get all the grease out and all the WD"
BUT, I didn't think about the film left over so I should have told him not to use it. I do think the trace amount will get mixed with the oil and not be a problem, I could be wrong.
I edited post #3 so nobody reads it and uses WD.
The reason I didn't immediately tell him to use mineral spirits is I thought he was going to flush them in the headstock and with the cover on the chuck side there's not much room get mineral spirits in there but the WD pressured with a tube seemed to me would get the grease out.

DTE oil is used as a Hyd oil we used DTE26 for years in all of the machines at GM. That a look at the two files they give the cross overs to each oil. The plant engineering is easier to read. I also gave you the one from my Lathe I use AW32 hyd oil in the head.

Todd

View attachment Chosing a Lubricant.pdf

View attachment Plant Engineering Lubricant Cross Over Charts.pdf

View attachment Pages from DoAll 13.pdf

 

[mikbul]

So many oils, so little time! I use JD LV Hyguard, there's always a jug hanging around here. I believe it's made by Chevron.
I used the regular Hyguard in my JD950 manual transmission and the LV Hyguard in my JD 140 and 318 hyrdros.

 

[ShopShoe]

Todd,

Thank you for posting the charts.

Mikbul,

Thanks again for your postings and information.

I did not realize this thread would continue for so long. However, I believe that I am not alone in trying to come to grips with a whole lot of diverse shop activities and different machines and mechanisms that I need to maintain and the need to have the supplies to do it along with the desire to stock what is needed, but not more than I need.

I do know kerosene is flammable, I actually do not have any right now. Nor do I have diesel fuel. I do have mineral spirits as it is easily available and I also do occasional painting with non-water-based paint. I have a local hazmat recycler available to me and I periodically get rid of old solvents and materials that I have used or no longer have use for.

--ShopShoe

 

[mikbul]

BTW WD40 is also flammable, 50% Stoddard solvent, 15% mineral oil and 25 % LP gas! From what I understand the LP gas has been replaced by carbon dioxide to bring down the flammability. Parrafin is the left over film that can also be found in Fuel oil and crude oil.
I keep my mineral solvent in a big Tupperware type container outside the shop, it's nice you can set a chuck right in it and spin the scroll and after awhile the crud floats to the bottom. I need to get some paint strainers to pour it off occasionally and clean the bottom. A little snow on it but no harm. The second container is a final rinse in clean spirits.
My shop is an Oak framed Amish shed so I'm pretty careful and try not to burn it down, have a metal can for greasy rags etc. All aerosols are in a cabinet. I do all my welding under the attached open shed with gravel floor.

 

[Walltoddj]

BTW WD40 is also flammable, 50% Stoddard solvent, 15% mineral oil and 25 % LP gas! From what I understand the LP gas has been replaced by carbon dioxide to bring down the flammability. Parrafin is the left over film that can also be found in Fuel oil.
I keep my mineral solvent in a big Tupperware type container outside the shop, it's nice you can set a chuck right in it and spin the scroll and after awhile the crud floats to the bottom. I need to get some paint strainers to pour it off occasionally and clean the bottom.

Be careful with ANY SPRAY LUBE we used spray white lithium grease to lube ejector pins in the molds till one day we had a fireball come out the end of the die. All it took was static spark to set it off and it was like a flame thrower. Yes kerosine is flammable so is Diesel fuel is flammable as well IF you get the right conditions. I wash my parts in mineral spirits and brake cleaner just have not do it where it can be a hazard. WD-40 sucks as a lube it dries out and gums up the works, if you just want a lube try PB Blaster works great on rusted parts and lubes if you leave it on.


Todd

 

[mikbul]

Be careful with ANY SPRAY LUBE we used spray white lithium grease to lube ejector pins in the molds till one day we had a fireball come out the end of the die. All it took was static spark to set it off and it was like a flame thrower. Yes kerosine is flammable so is Diesel fuel is flammable as well IF you get the right conditions. I wash my parts in mineral spirits and brake cleaner just have not do it where it can be a hazard. WD-40 sucks as a lube it dries out and gums up the works, if you just want a lube try PB Blaster works great on rusted parts and lubes if you leave it on.


Todd

A friend of mine has a potato cannon, can't remember what he charges it with. If the WD didn't have the paraffin in it would at least leave some mineral oil without the gum. Marvel mystery oil has been around at the farm for years (not the same can). I used to stick some down the carb on my R/C engines before I put them away and give it a few spins by hand and it would take care of the gummed up castor oil.

 

[Walltoddj]

My kids used hair spray man did those potatoes fly!

Todd


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