Little Adept lathe for my 5 year old

[BaronJ]

Hi John,

No I've not tried the speed control yet, although it is sat with the lathe. I only finished getting the lathe back together yesterday, before all hell broke loose with the boys and the cat. Then the afore mentioned 4 hour drive, which included two children feeling travel sick, an unplanned toilet stop, a diversion, and lack of a good meal beforehand meant a bit of a grumpy driver. I finished putting it all together late last night after getting home, and the pics above are as far as I got.

The Gibs for the slides were all adjusted, and although a little stiff, there is no movement of the compound now. The saddle moves the full length of the bed easily without getting tighter, so signs are good for little wear. Need to get a bottle of oil with one of those blunt syringe needles fitted to make lubricating the oil holes easier, I used a cocktail stick and just let a drip into all the holes. the oil dispersed gradually, in the spindle, so I imagine the spindle is fairly good fit. overall the strip down clean and paint has improved the finish of the work no end from my initial test cut with no work done, so I'll grind some tools, dig the feeler gauges out, and set it up and see if it works better a second time around when I aren't so tired and have more patients to try trouble shooting the poor finish.

Regards
Jon

Hi Jon, Guys,

Good to hear that the gibs are sorted. As far as oil is concerned I have a number of plastic bottles, about 150 - 200 ml that have a nice spout. If you want a couple text me somewhere to send them to. As long as there is no bronze or brass bushes SAE 5 engine oil is good for general use. I mention brass/bronze because some oils have additives that attack those metals.

As far as lathe tools are concerned, I was under the impression that 1/4" (6 mm) HSS tool stock was the correct size for that lathe. I bought 200 mm lengths of 3, 4, 5, 6, and 12 x 2 mm HSS from Aliexpress for about £8, post free, good value for money, the only down side is that it took 4 weeks for them to arrive here.

 

[goldstar31]

I'm having n old fashioned thought about 'boring'

If the worn bore is notionally 1/2", why not make a D Bit from a pice of 13mm silver steel- and ruduce the part that goes through the tailstock and say- use a drill to rotate the cutting. Then make up the new slightly larger mandrel.

It's Sparey- not my idea

Norman

 

[JCSteam]

Well after sat at the dining table working on the little lathe, messing around with the HSS tool, I was just about to set away on another cut to test what id done, when the magic smoke got out the foot pedal..........At first I thought it was a stone caught in the fish tank pump, then the crackle started and I realised. quickly unplugged from motor and wall. Thankfully nothing damaged externally. Though my cat sniffed at the foot pedal quite cautiously after hearing the crackling and coming to investigate. I believe the motor is undamaged but brought it into work to check before plugging it in again to any other power source.
Cut is better though before it packed up


So that's that, on with electrics before much more experimenting with tools, as I don't fancy a crank handle for the lathe lol.

Kind Regards
Jon

PS John text on the way thanks.

 

[goldstar31]

Jon
Probably the foot controller is from a swing machine and if so, the repair kit((??) is under £4.

My thoughts for the day

Fingers crossed

Norman

 

[JCSteam]

Hi,
I was a bit sceptical about using it to be honest, and also for me, let alone Josh. Is hard to control a constant speed at the spindle. So I think some form of speed controller knob would be better for usability. I've brought the motor into work today to ask the advice of some of the electricians on site, see if the dimmer switch John B gave me would work, or if I need something else. So waiting for one of them to get back to me. I've seen a little 240v controller on ebay with a cooling fan, which may be handy, for around £11. LINK
Which I think for the Wattage is overkill (4000w), but when the motor is under load will likely be pulling more current than the footswitch can handle hence overheating and letting the magic smoke out. The controller on ebay would also be very easy to set up and install within a box. I need to figure out which wires control the motor, then run some new cable from the motor, and attach an earth to it somewhere on the casing. I opened the motor casing up and there was four wires, two of these go to an isolator contacts, so that a small plastic piece is removed from the motor housing, with metal pins in, and presumably kills the flow of electricity to the foot pedal much like a blade fuse in your car. But have asked the electrician to figure out what Id need, and what would work.

The other option, if the dimmer switch cant be used, and the item linked above cant be used. However very costly (for a little adept), is to buy a 350w 24v motor, a 240v to 24v power supply, and a simple speed controller. This totals around £100, and is a last resort. Though would be much safer for Josh having only 24v instead of 240v as the power supply can be concealed away from curious hands.

Regards
Jon

 

[BaronJ]

Hi,
I was a bit sceptical about using it to be honest, and also for me, let alone Josh. Is hard to control a constant speed at the spindle. So I think some form of speed controller knob would be better for usability. I've brought the motor into work today to ask the advice of some of the electricians on site, see if the dimmer switch John B gave me would work, or if I need something else. So waiting for one of them to get back to me. I've seen a little 240v controller on ebay with a cooling fan, which may be handy, for around £11. LINK
Which I think for the Wattage is overkill (4000w), but when the motor is under load will likely be pulling more current than the footswitch can handle hence overheating and letting the magic smoke out. The controller on ebay would also be very easy to set up and install within a box. I need to figure out which wires control the motor, then run some new cable from the motor, and attach an earth to it somewhere on the casing. I opened the motor casing up and there was four wires, two of these go to an isolator contacts, so that a small plastic piece is removed from the motor housing, with metal pins in, and presumably kills the flow of electricity to the foot pedal much like a blade fuse in your car. But have asked the electrician to figure out what Id need, and what would work.

The other option, if the dimmer switch cant be used, and the item linked above cant be used. However very costly (for a little adept), is to buy a 350w 24v motor, a 240v to 24v power supply, and a simple speed controller. This totals around £100, and is a last resort. Though would be much safer for Josh having only 24v instead of 240v as the power supply can be concealed away from curious hands.

Regards
Jon

Hi Jon,

If you have a browse around the local scrap yard you might find a discarded shower pump ! Most of these motors are induction types and cannot be speed controlled. However they are nearly all 1/2 Hp and 2880 rpm so you would need belts and pulleys.

Some of these shower pump motors are universal AC/DC brush motors and tend to run at 5K or more off load, and again are usually in the 1/2 Hp range, but they can be speed controlled quite easily. Some I've found even have a speed control built into the connection box, so you can adjust the shower head water pressure. All the way from dribble to stings like a swarm of bee's. DAMHIK.

That controller I gave you is rated at 800 watts or about 1.3 Hp, so it should easily cope with that tiny sewing machine motor.

 

[JCSteam]

Thanks John,

So connect terminal C to the live from the plug, then connect either of the outlets (but not both) L1 or L2 to the live to motor, Then a neutral from the motor back to the plug, earthing the lathe and any countershaft setup I do. I take it that a no release switch could also be fitted along side to give quick cut off, of power if it was needed.

I am not clued up on electrics at all, hence why I consulted one of the electricians at work. I can wire a plug and a twin socket outlet, but beyond that i'm a bit lost.

These were some of the ebay items that I had looked at.
No volt release switch
PMW controller
Box for the electronics

Regards
Jon

 

[modeng2000]

Jon, this is what I used,

The no-volt release switch is eBay (193540659522) 250v KJD17 £10.64
The speed control is Amazon Wingoneer AC220 4000w £6.99
The box is RS Stock number 174889 £6.25 plus vat.

I hope this is helpful, it may be possible to get a better price at other outlets. The box is really good quality and was the only one I found that would let me fit the parts as in the photo. It is possible to fit an IEC mains socket in the side of the box but I realised this too late so it is gromets for the cable entries.

For the switch use the two connections at the edge of the switch for live and neutral input and the two connections in the middle of the switch as the output to the speed controller etc. If you feed the middle conections you get a buzzer, dont ask how I know :-(

John

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Jon,
I wondered if you would like to see the Wizard lathe I am just restoring. It is very similar to the Adept as you can see.
I've been following your posts with interest and they have been helpful to me in deciding about layout, motor etc. I have been wondering if there are any benefits from having a countershaft. Perhaps the motor speed could be higher for a given spindle speed and so more torque for the machning.

The 8mm square shank insert tools seem to be made for this size of lathe.
John

Whoa! That's some lathe! Do you know what year that is?

 

[modeng2000]

Richard,
I don't have a real idea save that it was advertised from 1946 on to the earlie 1950s.
There is some information here :- Wizard Micro lathe

John

 

[BaronJ]

Thanks John,

So connect terminal C to the live from the plug, then connect either of the outlets (but not both) L1 or L2 to the live to motor, Then a neutral from the motor back to the plug, earthing the lathe and any counter shaft setup I do. I take it that a no release switch could also be fitted along side to give quick cut off, of power if it was needed.

Yes exactly that ! If you do decide to fit a no volt relay, it needs to be on the mains side of the speed controller. Though I personally wouldn't bother.

I am not clued up on electrics at all, hence why I consulted one of the electricians at work. I can wire a plug and a twin socket outlet, but beyond that I'm a bit lost.

These were some of the ebay items that I had looked at.
No volt release switch
PMW controller
Box for the electronics

Regards
Jon

Hi Jon,

Now I'm going to throw a spanner in the works ! Its your choice whether you catch it or not, no obligation.

I took a drive to my local scrap yard this morning and came back with this motor. I've stripped it and serviced it, done a little repair and its in good condition bar a few very minor bits of rust.

Bear in mind that it is a shower pump motor ! It has a built in soft start, about a second and a half. Its rated at 390 Watts with a 20 minute rating. All the electrical connections are screw terminals under that cover. Its 2880 rpm and has a 10 mm diameter shaft at each end.

It is not able to be speed controlled ! So you will have to make and use a counter shaft to drive the lathe. I think that it will be ideal for the size of the Adept.

Its yours if you want it

 

[JCSteam]

Thanks John,
Can you provide external dimensions, as I was going to make a countershaft but I can't see how that motor would screw/bolt to a plate. Also need to do some maths now on pulley reduction diameters.

Regards
Jon

 

[BaronJ]

Thanks John,
Can you provide external dimensions, as I was going to make a counter shaft but I can't see how that motor would screw/bolt to a plate. Also need to do some maths now on pulley reduction diameters.

Regards
Jon

Hi Jon,

I didn't actually measure the size, but roughly 5 inches cube plus the wiring box on top. As far as mounting, I didn't bother to take them both. If you look at the last picture the bottom of the motor has grooves on each side for clamp plates, they were just screwed with wood screws into the timber floor. Easy enough to make with a bit of flat plate or bar.

I'll make a point of measuring it up tomorrow.

The pumps on this one were both seized, particularly the hot side. The seals had leaked as you can see from the rust on the bottom. I'm keeping the two bronze impellers, but the pumps were plastic bodied on this one, they are usually brass or bronze.

I normally return this material to the scrap yard. Part of the deal for getting the motors. He gets the valuable stuff back and I get to keep the motor if its any good. Saves him the cost of taking them apart.

 

[JCSteam]

Just sat with the lathe and talking Josh through what does what, and where not! To put your hands or fingers. I think I may have just figured why it wasn't cutting as good as I'd hoped. I had the topslide retracted, so there would have been movement there, also the tool clamp doesn't seem able to hold the tool secure, with it tightened I can still move it with pressure on the far end of the tool. So again movement, I don't want to tighten the toolpost bolt any more as I think I'd strip the thread, (I am a big Yorkshire lad after all). So any suggestions for increasing grip on the tool?
Regards
Jon

 

[goldstar31]

So any suggestions for increasing grip on the tool?
Regards
Jon

As you haven't got a surface grinder or a T&C, you are into buying shares in a tin of Engineer's Blue and a scraper.

Go and add a bit of float glass from your local glacier- sorry-- glazier

This reference to th late David Lammas is still valid.

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A few comments to Richard especially. There seems to have been a battle about Wizard lathes- there was TWO and Lane of Houghton le Spring lost and subsequent lathes were called 'Lanes'

My old neigbour who lived in Chester le Street had one. When I moved to more exootic things, I gave him my old Round Bed Drummond . I had bought it for a vast £9
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The back history- if you believe Tom D Walshaw was many castings were bought in from perhaps single casting firms and the so called 'manufacturers' did the machining and then assembly. So a lot of bits were interchangeable
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Rather like multiple firms in copying the one design- only the other way about LOL

Laughingly, there were few of the cheaper lathes which had more than 'fine milling'.
In fact, when I stripped a Myford ML7 for overhaul, the Numbr 4 Shear was fine milled as it 'floated' in th air- because the early models were from the 'Narrow Gide principle. Then Martin Cleeve or correctly Kenneth C Hart came along

A bit more that isn't in the book!

Norman

 

[JCSteam]

I've got a nice bit of plate glass, 10mm thick. But only small, 60x300mm. The corner edges are broken off which is why it's been replaced as it was for a vacuum system on one of the production lines at work. The chipped edges means it starts to loose vacuum.

I was thinking to file the clamp underside so it's stepped, then with a triangle file cut grooves in it to increase the grip. Also a *** paper or two may also be an option.

Interesting to learn where "lanes" comes into it all with the wizard lathes. Didn't know they were built in Chester le street.

Jon

 

[JCSteam]

I need to get my ML4 put together and up and running, there seems to be quite a market for lathe tooling for these small lathes. I've seen another adept pop up on a fb group, needing jaws for a chuck, also on the same post, another person asking if anyone has a tailstock. I've probably got enough tooling to carve the bits from cast iron helping out and make a few bob along the way.
Jon

 

[goldstar31]

So 'pin back your lug holes' and a slurry of wet sand and a circular motion and then ack and forwards.
Remove the detritus and see what is bright--- and ugh-- what is not.

Probably your hole down bolt has already 'pulled and raised and arris- which means that the mating surface doesn't mate. I DID an old Enox moons ago. As you know, I'm hop;ess now with terrible ;one eye that isn't much good.

When I had a villa in the Balearics, I regularly scrapped the mouldy white Snowcem equivalent before repainting.
Now that was a job.

I am beginning to think that I was made of stern stuff then.
No files, you'll only make things worse. I had a razor sharp scraper and constantly re-honed it.

The sand treatment, incidentally, is to cut through the inevitable case hardening of the cast iron.

One aims to get 25 spots per square inch.

 

[JCSteam]

Ok Norm,

Here s a few pics, you can see where the tool has been and where it's making contact. Also the toolpost bolt, seems upright. Maybe a good wet and dry as you say and a bit of blue see where would need scraping if any.




The camera struggled to focus on that last pic so I hope it's picked it up, a slight lean on one side.

And set up as it was for machining, the feeler gauges been used to get on centre height.


Jon

 

[JCSteam]

The paper has done the trick though, no movement with my finger now on the far end of the tool


Well using arm power alone to flick the chuck around, and the smallest of small cuts, I've got a finish that I think I'd be happy with, much less chatter, and a shiny finish, so tool isn't a problem. The paper has held firm too.

The 1cm of cut brass furthest from the chuck was just now, the 1cm closest to the chuck was last night before Snap, Crackle, and POP.