Line shaft

[Powder keg]

Hey Everyone,

This summer I bought a post drill and I ran across a bench grinder that require flat belts to run them. I've been cleaning my shop and I have a spot for them to live\0/ I found a 1/2 horse industrial motor that I think will run them fine. My problem.....

I was born about 100 years too late :shrug: I am having a bunch of trouble finding much info on the subject. I found a book that I think will get me by. But I thought It would be neat get the info from people that have actually seen/used equipment ran with overhead belts.

I'm planing on fabricating brackets to mount the motor and shafts on the wall behind the equipment. I haven't decided if I'm going to cast them or build them up from bar stock. I've heard that cast iron bearings will outlast bronze bushings many times over.

The drill press has had liberal doses of WD40 applied latly and ticks over like a Swiss watch. The power feed will be nice. The grinder has a broken piece and a couple of pieces missing. They will be easy to fab up from pictures I have.

Thanks for any input, Wes

wEc1

 

[Metal Butcher]

The cast iron vs bronze bushing is an interesting issue. ???I Might be wrong but I think that bronze bushings would out last cast iron. The only knowledge I have as a basis for my opinion is that cast iron is usually bronze bushed, like the 'rear blade wheel' on my H/V band saw.

I have heard that bronze bushings are best greased, so I drilled a 'L' shaped passage in the shaft and added a grease fitting to its end. Been using the saw for a few years with no noticeable wear on the bushing. ;D

-MB

 

[hammers-n-nails]

it was always my understanding that the reason for using dissimilar materials was so only one part would wear, that part being designed so as to be easily replaced. so in that same line of thinking i would say yes ci berings may last longer but your line shaft will wear also. another thought, 1/2hp seems to be a little on the small side when you consider the power losses you may have in a line shaft system, but i may be wrong about everything ive said.

 

[Powder keg]

I was thinking 1/2 might be a little small. But It was free and I can always scrounge a bigger one from somewhere) I'll try and get some pictures of my post drill and grinder up here.

Thanks for the input, Wes

 

[tel]

Way back when ..... it was common practice in this country to run line shafting in wooden (River Red Gum) bearings - trouble was the red gum acts like a lap and will wear a 2" shaft right through. given enough time. Cast Iron will be OK as long as you fit oilers, bronze, fit grease nipples and, in either case, tend to them regularly.

For belt dressing common old cow molasses works fine but does tend to make a mess.

 

[Deanofid]

Hi Wes;

Cast iron bearings will last for a long, long time. I've seen some old, fairly large lathes that used only the cast iron of the head stock as the bearing for the spindle. I don't know how old they were. Old.
Then, think about all the 50-75 year old jack shafts still in use on a lot of older lathes today. Many of those have no bushing material. Just the cast iron bores that the shaft runs in, and they usually run pretty fast.

That said, I would use bronze bearing stock. Your shafting will last longer, and someday, when the bearings do wear out, they'll be easy to replace. It may also be easier from a manufacturing point of view. You can buy some types of sintered bronze bearing stock already made to the size of your shafting. Depends on the size of the shaft.

This is not a suggestion, but something you may find interesting. There was a machine shop here in town that still had overhead shaft and leather belt drive for a couple of their machines. The bearings in them were oak. No one in the shop could remember replacing them, and there were a couple of pretty old heads there.

Dean

 

[coldte]

The cast iron vs bronze bushing is an interesting issue. ???I Might be wrong but I think that bronze bushings would out last cast iron. The only knowledge I have as a basis for my opinion is that cast iron is usually bronze bushed, like the 'rear blade wheel' on my H/V band saw.

I have heard that bronze bushings are best greased, so I drilled a 'L' shaped passage in the shaft and added a grease fitting to its end. Been using the saw for a few years with no noticeable wear on the bushing. ;D

-MB

Hi,many years ago i purchased a very large planer (24 inch blades) that had cast iron bearing surfaces , on stripping it there was very little wear considering the age circa 1925 the motor to run it weighed about 160 lbs plus and was only 1 1/2 hp total weight of machine close to 450 lbs + so they have been used for some heavy machines early in the 20th century.
regards coldte

 

[Toyman01]

The drive system bearings for my lathe and the bearings in my lathe are cast iron and have no wear even though they are 50+ years old. That said, seeing as how you are building the brackets, why wouldn't you use ball bearings.

 

[Powder keg]

A buddy of mine told me about when he was a kid his dad ran a Case thrashing machine. he said a lot of the shafts on it had wood bearings on them. He said that it was pretty impressive because they were going full speed all the time trying to get the job done.

I've decided to try wood for my line shaft bearings. I can always change it later if it doesn't work. I've done a little research on wood bearings. There is a company that still makes them. Who would have thought? It turns out that oil soaks into the wood. When it starts to warm up a bit the oil gets runny and comes out of the wood to lube things then is reabsorbed as the bearing cools off. Anyway, I have some Oak that I'll fashion into bearings for my lines haft. I have them drawn up. I'll start on them as soon as my bench in clean.

Why not just by some ball bearings? Anyone can do that. This is just for fun\0/ Pictures to follow.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Oak will work fine for lineshaft bearings in a non industrial setting. Better yet, once you have the bearings finished, soak them in a container of heated oil for a couple of hours to soak the oil into the pores in the wood. A 1/2 HP motor will be too light to run a lineshaft set-up because of frictional losses unless the machines being driven turn at a low RPM.

 

[Alan J. Richer]

Brian, I will not argue with your expertise as you are far more knowledgeable than I - but I would personally have not recommended oak for a bearing. It's too open-pored in most subspecies, and tends to burn at high speeds.

Personally I would have gone for maple, which was a very common wood for bearings in textile machinery. If one visits the Slater Mill in Pawtucket, RI, you can see textile machines there that are mostly wood, with metal only where absolutely needed.

Maple well-saturated in oil will run for a very long time in a lineshaft setup. I used to see lots of that in the mills my Dad worked in as a mechanic (there called a "fixer") lo these many, many years ago.

Alan

 

[jabezkin]

Lignum Vitae. It was good enough for our first Nuclear Sub on the prop shaft.

There is, or was a couple of years ago, a Blacksmith shop in Tustin Ca that ran overhead shafts. It was a big shop and they might be a sourse of info.

Sorry I don't remember the name.

Rob

 

[Brian Rupnow]

I have used oak as bearing material with no real wear issues. In my part of Ontario, native maple is more porous, but will wear much quicker than oak. I use oak as the slider bars on the power hacksaw I built 40 years ago and it is still in great shape.---No signifigant wear is visible, and that old saw has cut a LOT of steel in the last 40 years.------- On a side note, when I was a kid my mother wanted hardwood floors put in our dining room. My dad had a lot of maple on our property, so he cut down a few of the trees and had them sawn and planed into appropriate sized boards to make a hardwood floor. It was the custom at that time (about 1958) to put the floor down, then sand it in place with a large belt sander. He had a local contracter with a lot of experience in sanding oak floors come in and do ours----And he promptly ruined the floor. The contractor told us that the maple was so much softer than the oak he was accustomed to sanding, that the sander dug in all over the place instead of "skating" on the surface like it would have on an oak floor.

 

[jabezkin]

Lignum Vitae. It was good enough for our first Nuclear Sub on the prop shaft.

There is, or was a couple of years ago, a Blacksmith shop in Tustin Ca that ran overhead shafts. It was a big shop and they might be a sourse of info.

Sorry I don't remember the name.

Rob

Tustin Blacksmith Shop.........................ADHD is a terrible thing to waste.

 

[jabezkin]

Really slow today. Go to the Machinists' Bible "Machinery Handbook" They used to give specs for using wood bearings, don't have a new copy but in the 90s they had it. (Yes the 1990s also!)

Just checked the 25th ed, its there. 2000 PSI and 2000sfpm. Not half bad.

 

[Powder keg]

Thanks for all the stories and tips fellas.

Today I moved my work bench away from the wall. The east wall had insulation, but that was it. I bought some OSB and a buddy of mine came over and helped me install it\0/ In the morning I'll start painting. I also bought a post to hold my new drill press. As soon as I get my bench back, I'll start making parts and pieces for my line shaft setup. I've also been trying to find a bigger motor. I'd like a 1 or 1.5 horse motor. That should be plenty.

I've been doing some research on the belts. I think I'll buy the leather and make my own. I can't decide if I should glue them together or lace them? I haven't found a recommendation on what kind of glue would work best. Probably doesn't make that much difference? If I glue them I'll probably make a jig to plane down the lap joint and hold and clamp it while the glue dries.

 

[Kermit]

Have you considered a chain drive connection from motor to shaft?

Might get better transmission of torque for sudden loading. And no slip.


Just a thought,
Kermit

 

[Powder keg]

If set up right, I think the belts should run fine. I am mainly trying to have a later 1800's setup with these tools ;D I like the old stuff. I might even learn something

Thanks

 

[Powder keg]

Here is a quick picture of the grinder and drill press. I have a post now to mount the press to\o/

More later.....

 

[Deanofid]

Oh, that's a nice bit of ol' machinery, Keg. I like it.

Dean