Lathe Tooling

[abby]

I think I will keep my tangenitals well away from the lathe !

 

[goldstar31]

I think I will keep my tangenitals well away from the lathe !

Thanks for a bit of common sense.

As I see it, we are involved in the discussion about an obsolete lathe and attachments which in a real world only equate to a a tankful of diesel in my little car or two sets of sausage and mash in a fairly indifferent London restaurant.

Life for some of us, is not quite so trivial.

Norman

 

[radar]

Hi Radar,

You might also take a look at the indexible HSS tooling sold by A R Warner of Latrobe, PA. http://www.arwarnerco.com/c-12-turning.aspx

They sell some 1/4 shank turning sets that would fit the Taig lathe you mention.

Chuck

Kuhn, I found a nice set that is 5/16ths. Would I simply need to shave a little bit off the bottom- or would they likely be fine as is?

 

[kuhncw]

Kuhn, I found a nice set that is 5/16ths. Would I simply need to shave a little bit off the bottom- or would they likely be fine as is?

Radar,

The 5/16 set should be fine and more ridgid than 1/4 inch. The tool holder that comes with the Taig lathe will accept 5/16ths with some room to spare.

Chuck

 

[radar]

Alright this is going to sound stupid- but is I am starting to really notice a pattern here:

Micro-Mark and Harbor Freight clearly are selling some of the same products but one of them, the one from New Jersey, is clearly price jacking the same products.

 

[GLCarlson]

Hello mr Carlson

Will You be interested in testing my 2mm square carbide plus holder compared to the best HSS you have?
If you tell me distance from top of compund surface to centerline I may have a holder.
If You also tell me Yor adress things go of monday.
Given same degree of tender loving care resharpening(2 minutes) carbide will be even with HSS all the time and more,but it is nice if it can be confirmed from a respected and independent source.
A 3mm round 65mm long ,polished carbide is around 2€ and my almost square 2mm will be around 20 €.Best german

Mr. Abildgaard,

I have been a tangential user for many decades; your designs are excellent - though I use a different holder, and much prefer the 6 mm size. Carbide in a tangential is unquestionably better than HSS; but HSS is cheap! I have no doubt that carbide in a tangential holder will be the best option. Regrettably, I have no way to sharpen (don't have the right wheel). So I can't easily do a comparison.

I think the outcome is not in doubt. Perhaps we should encourage another -less evangelical- member to do the testing? !

 

[radar]

Oh, I have something I forgot to mention:

Aside from the obvious (mill and lathe) for work on smaller models and the like I will be making, I was considering the following:

-1" wide belt sander
-6" grinder
-buffer
-band saw
-1/2 ton arbor press
-hand tapping machine

Now, what kind has me scratching my head a bit with this whole matter is this: for small live steam engines and other small projects in general, is some of this over kill? If I were to get my hands on a vertical band saw could I get away with rewiring a wood cutting band saw to work for metal? Will a three jaw chuck work to hold taps well enough- or should I look into something else?

The big one that really has me wondering though is this:
Is it just me or does it seem like Micro-Mark sells a lot of stuff that I could buy from Harbor Freight (to the point of it being exactly identical) for much less?
I apologize about bombarding this place with questions.

 

[kuhncw]

Oh, I have something I forgot to mention:


-hand tapping machine

Will a three jaw chuck work to hold taps well enough- or should I look into something else?

.

I'll let someone else answer the band saw question. As to the hand tapping machine, opinions will vary, but I do all my tapping in the mill or in the lathe. I've drilled the hole in either the mill or lathe, so why not tap the hole while you are on location. I've not felt the need for a hand tapping machine, because of where I do my drilling.

Rather than a three jaw chuck, I'd suggest a tap wrench with a sliding pilot. Some are spring loaded, but then you have the spring loading the tap. Ok for larger taps, but not so good for 2-56 etc. There are designs for sensitive home built tap holders/wrenches out there. Again, I'm speaking of tapping in the lathe or mill.

No need to apologize for asking lots of questions. That is how we learn and how new ideas turn up in the forum.

Chuck

 

[radar]

I'll let someone else answer the band saw question. As to the hand tapping machine, opinions will vary, but I do all my tapping in the mill or in the lathe. I've drilled the hole in either the mill or lathe, so why not tap the hole while you are on location. I've not felt the need for a hand tapping machine, because of where I do my drilling.

Rather than a three jaw chuck, I'd suggest a tap wrench with a sliding pilot. Some are spring loaded, but then you have the spring loading the tap. Ok for larger taps, but not so good for 2-56 etc. There are designs for sensitive home built tap holders/wrenches out there. Again, I'm speaking of tapping in the lathe or mill.

No need to apologize for asking lots of questions. That is how we learn and how new ideas turn up in the forum.

Chuck

Thank you sir- what about the rest I had mentioned? Anything seem like over kill to you?

 

[kuhncw]

Radar,

I think the belt sander, grinder, press, and band saw will all be very useful. For the work you intend.

Slowing down a wood cutting band saw should work for cutting soft and/or fairly thin metals. I'd still prefer a metal cutting band saw as it would be much faster on larger barstock. There are some nice bench top band saws available.

Chuck

 

[Wizard69]

Alright this is going to sound stupid- but is I am starting to really notice a pattern here:

Micro-Mark and Harbor Freight clearly are selling some of the same products but one of them, the one from New Jersey, is clearly price jacking the same products.

Possibly, but this isn't always clear. For better or worst I purchased my 9x20 lathe from Harbor Freight, it is OK, but after viewing a machine in Grizzly's show room I'd say that the Grizzly was of better quality. Now take the drill press I bought from Grizzly and you could chuck it in the trash for all I care. There is significant differences in machine quality even from the same vendor like Grizzly. Likewise some of the crap Harbor Freight has in their show rooms is beyond belief.

In a nut shell it is pretty hard to make a blanket statement here. Micro-Mark has for example a very interesting lathe offering. How you value the combo of features is up to you.

 

[Wizard69]

Oh, I have something I forgot to mention:

Aside from the obvious (mill and lathe) for work on smaller models and the like I will be making, I was considering the following:

-1" wide belt sander
-6" grinder

At least one of the two above is required as eventually you will need to sharpen HSS tooling. Both have their advantages

-buffer

You could use the bench grinder as sort of a stand in for a buffer. If you like shinny models though I guess a buffer is required. I'd probably go with a tumbler first.

-band saw

Not required by any means but a huge convenience.

-1/2 ton arbor press

Such presses cam be very useful but if I was to buy an arbor press I'd most likely go larger.

-hand tapping machine

This is something you can make. Frankly this and even some of the machines above are good DIY candidates. Practice on none models leads to broader skills development.

Now, what kind has me scratching my head a bit with this whole matter is this: for small live steam engines and other small projects in general, is some of this over kill?

Well if you catch the tool bug the answer is no. On the other hand some of the tools above, such as the bandsaw, take up a lot of space.

If I were to get my hands on a vertical band saw could I get away with rewiring a wood cutting band saw to work for metal?

I'm not sure what you mean by rewriring. There is a massive difference in SFM (Surface Feet per Minute) between a wood working machine and a metal cutting one. This means that you need a form of gear reduction to retask a wood working machine. This is another DIY project.

Will a three jaw chuck work to hold taps well enough- or should I look into something else?

Small taps maybe. Here are a lot of crap chucks out there. At some point thought drill chucks won't supply he torque required. This usually isn't a problem in a model engineering shop though.

The big one that really has me wondering though is this:
Is it just me or does it seem like Micro-Mark sells a lot of stuff that I could buy from Harbor Freight (to the point of it being exactly identical) for much less?

In some cases yes. In other cases I suspect HF sells the seconds and screw ups.

I apologize about bombarding this place with questions.

Questions are good.

 

[Wizard69]

Thank you sir- what about the rest I had mentioned? Anything seem like over kill to you?

I might offer a slightly different view on a tapping jig. As noted doing most of your tapping in a mill or lathe just makes sense. However sometimes that isn't possible or for very small taps problematic. At work almost any thing drilled in a mill, drill press or lathe will have the taps at least started in that machine. Sometime tapped under power and sometimes with hand tools and alignment aids. I can sometimes be reluctant to do so with real small taps though.

I wouldn't totally dismiss a tapping stand but it should be your first consideration for a tapped hole. If the stand supports other functions like the common pillar tool designs then it might be easier to justify. You are back to DIY as flexible commercial units apparently don't exist.

 

[Wizard69]

Forgot the most important thing, you don't need to get them all at once. In fact that might be a bad idea.

 

[goldstar31]

Arguably, the best tapping tool is the one by George Thomas in his Workshop Techniques book.

This is not only a tapping tool but capable for staking/riveting and drilling with the ability to do divisions etc, Whilst the tool is available as castings from(say) Hemingwaykits it can be fabricated by welding. My first came from an old boy, long dead now. To make the fabricated one does involve either silver soldering or brazing or welding but once you have one- need I say more?

It's a class act and you can get into interesting things like making your own division plates.

Regards

Norman

 

[radar]

What I found that Harbor Freight had (that looked interesting at least) was some 5/16ths HSS tool holders. Came in a set with lathe dogs and stuff- but Grizzly had the important part (the holders) by themselves for less.

I think that the grinder alone would be fine. For finishing I doubt I would need a belt sander anyhow. Files and sanding blocks would probably work fine too- plus the Dremel.

The buffer is.... well..... I have OCD. Buffing something super shiny is very satisfying as a result.

I think I'll make the hand tapper and the arbor press. From what I have gathered from a fellow member of my live steam club ER collets hold dies really well, so this could get interesting.

I'll just save my money on the bandsaw, my club has one I can use when ever and its not far from home.

 

[radar]

Arguably, the best tapping tool is the one by George Thomas in his Workshop Techniques book.

This is not only a tapping tool but capable for staking/riveting and drilling with the ability to do divisions etc, Whilst the tool is available as castings from(say) Hemingwaykits it can be fabricated by welding. My first came from an old boy, long dead now. To make the fabricated one does involve either silver soldering or brazing or welding but once you have one- need I say more?

It's a class act and you can get into interesting things like making your own division plates.

Regards

Norman

Norman,

I think that I could make a simple hand tapper with out any issue- and for a lot less. A fairly sizable amount of my model engineering allowance is about to start flying out the door for my Allen Models Fitchburg Northern project. Thankfully with the large engines I have another hand to help me build it and the larger machines my local club has.

-Dean

 

[goldstar31]

Radar
I appreciate your comments and can only appreciate your concern about price.
A tapping tool CAN be fabricated from Scrap. Mine, the first edition mentioned earlier came from a guy's scrap box and was none the worse for that. Hopper wrote about Cleeve's Screwcutting in the Lathe and I can add the story of that lathe. In fact it was half a lathe and Cleeve added to it as he went along. The bits were fabricated from nuts and bolts which he made. He made the Swing Tool and tried to take out a Patent but - couldn't afford it.
His story sadly ends with him losing his job but undeterred , he made specialist nuts and bolts on the 'half lathe' as a job. He published his book but did not live long enough to get the royalties.

My first 'real' lathe was all of £9 and the motor came from a washing machine. True, life has changed in many ways for me since then but there is no reason why you cannot have a very worthwhile workshop for very little money but obviously made with a lot of thought,

So I wish you success and hope that this might encourage your own efforts

Norman

 

[Nick Hulme]

I think that I could make a simple hand tapper with out any issue- and for a lot less.

Or you could use your pillar drill or mill and a short bar with a point at one end and a countersink in the other for locating the work then keeping alignment and applying pressure on the back end of either countersunk or pointy ended taps,

- Nick

 

[goldstar31]

Or you could use your pillar drill or mill and a short bar with a point at one end and a countersink in the other for locating the work then keeping alignment and applying pressure on the back end of either countersunk or pointy ended taps,

- Nick

It is often better to visualise the broad picture rather than propound a narrow solution.

My recommendation was designed to follow the original information that the poster intended to build model locomotives. With this firmly in mind, I suggested the Universal tooling to do riveting, tapping, and all the other dividing and whatever which become the purview of the locomotive builder.


Regards

Norman