Info on piston ring pressure requirements?

[cds4byu]

Passing around that spreadsheet really violates the StrictlyIC copyright. Posting it on this forum does too. Frances Washburn, Robert's widow still sells back issues of the magazine to make a living. Making a spreadsheet for oneself from ones owned copies of the magazine is OK, it just should not be passed around.

Passing around a spreadsheet based on a formula presented in an article may violate HMEM's policies, but it does not violate copyright laws in the U.S. Copyright only applies to an expression of an idea, not to the idea itself. You can read this at the US government website:
https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#protect

Copyright law exists not only to provide benefits to authors, but also to society. One of the benefits to society is to allow ideas to get into common use. And making a spreadsheet based on a formula allows common use.

If copyright law applied to formulas, nobody could ever write a scientific paper based on a formula found in somebody else's paper, because it would qualify as a derivative work. If we want to stand on the shoulders of giants, we need to be able to use the work of those giants.

Again, as I said earlier, if HMEM wants to prevent sharing a spreadsheet based on Trimble's formula as shared in SIC, that is within their rights as the owners of the forum. But it is not required by copyright law.

 

[editor123]

Passing around a spreadsheet based on a formula presented in an article may violate HMEM's policies, but it does not violate copyright laws in the U.S. Copyright only applies to an expression of an idea, not to the idea itself. You can read this at the US government website:
https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#protect

Copyright law exists not only to provide benefits to authors, but also to society. One of the benefits to society is to allow ideas to get into common use. And making a spreadsheet based on a formula allows common use.

If copyright law applied to formulas, nobody could ever write a scientific paper base on a formula found in somebody else's paper, because it would qualify as a derivative work. If we want to stand on the shoulders of giants, we need to be able to use the work of those giants.

Again, as I said earlier, if HMEM wants to prevent sharing a spreadsheet based on Trimble's formula as shared in SIC, that is within their rights as the owners of the forum. But it is not required by copyright law.

Sorry, but I think expressing the article in a spreadsheet isn't standing on the shoulders of giants but cheating the providers of the original work. I see no advancement of the science in this case and certainly no deriivative work.

 

[cds4byu]

It's fine for you to have this opinion, but it is your opinion, and not the law. Facts (including equations) cannot be copyrighted nor patented.

 

[Gordon]

It's fine for you to have this opinion, but it is your opinion, and not the law. Facts (including equations) cannot be copyrighted nor patented.

Maybe I am missing something here but it is just a screenshot of a spreadsheet. It will not calculate anything and there is no link to the underlying formulas. It is no different than what other have shown on various build threads. Maybe I am just to dumb to get the spreadsheet to actually work.

 

[cds4byu]

Sorry, but I think expressing the article in a spreadsheet isn't standing on the shoulders of giants but cheating the providers of the original work. I see no advancement of the science in this case and certainly no deriivative work.

Actually, a spreadsheet based on a formula in the article is the very definition of a derivative work. I've taken the information, and made something different (a different expression) based on the contents of the article. If the formula is copyrightable, it is a violation of the copyright to make the spreadsheet. If the formula is not copyrightable, it's not a violation of copyright because none exists.

I provided a link to the US government site that explicitly states that facts are not copyrightable.

I am supportive of HMEM taking the position that we should not post nor share such a spreadsheet because it prevents a sale of a back issue of SIC. But claiming it has the force of law is incorrect.

 

[kuhncw]

Could it also be possible that sharing the spreadsheet may promote sale of the back issues to someone unaware the SIC articles even exist? The articles contain a lot of background and helpful how-to information not conveyed by the spreadsheet.

Chuck

 

[editor123]

It's fine for you to have this opinion, but it is your opinion, and not the law. Facts (including equations) cannot be copyrighted nor patented.

OK, if you say so. But it is morally incorrect to cheat a widow out of her method of making a living by passing the information on in a different media. Magazines in this hobby are marginal efforts and we've lost too many already. Let's not contribute to their downfall in any way, OK?

 

[mu38&Bg#]

We may as well close the forums so as to make the magazines the only source of information. Or, maybe, times change and the writing is on the wall.

 

[editor123]

We may as well close the forums so as to make the magazines the only source of information. Or, maybe, times change and the writing is on the wall.

Sounds a bit extreme to me. The Forums are great tools for what is really a fairly isolated hobby.

 

[Gordon]

This is becoming ridiculous. There is nothing in any of these posts which would allow someone to duplicate the process without the background information. It is no different than someone doing a build log on an engine using copyrighted drawings and showing a shot of a part on the drawing to explain how that part was made. If everything which is copyrighted must be entirely hidden then we are all back to reinventing the wheel over and over. If enough of the underlying information were shown to actually reproduce it I would agree but this discussion is just about aspects of the process, not the process.

I searched for enough information on the Trimble method to try to determine what folks were talking about and finally determined that there was not enough public information to actually use the method without actually purchasing the original articles so I purchased them.