How much unobtainium in a SBL?

[user 10585]

Greetings, I'm a newby to the forum and relatively new to the world of machining. I have been teaching myself with a Sherline lathe and mill and want to step up to larger machines. I love old heavy iron and would like to find a South Bend 9 or 10 in decent shape. I realize that a 50 or 60 year old machine will need some TLC but am concerned that there may be parts that are no longer available or cost prohibitive. I know that the condition of the ways is a big deal, but what other items should I be aware of that are deal breakers on a used SBL?
Thanks.

 

[rake60]

I don't know much about the South Bend 10's, but the 9" lathes have a great history.

Parts should not be a problem with them.

Rick

 

[n4zou]

24 yrs ago I purchased a new 12"X36" import lathe. I've never regretted it's purchase. I had looked at several used lathes before purchasing the new lathe. Everyone of them had some problems and were missing things like change gears and that other set of jaws for the 3 jaw chuck. In nearly every case I would have spent as much or more fixing on of those used lathes than what I paid for the new lathe. Only recently have I ever had a problem with it. The centrifugal switch for the starting capacitor burned up after the capacitor developed a dead short. Right now ENCO has a nice 12" X 36" import lathe for $3,000 with free shipping.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPAGE?PMPAGE=/specials/510-2589

 

[steamer]

If your heart is set on a SB, go for it

There are parts galore out there for a SB9. Including kits to replace wicks and other various parts

But be warned....most of these lathes are 50-60 years old and there are issues.....take your time and find a sweet one if your goal is a "first lathe" after a Sherline. Mine has been and adventure, but I've got another lathe to fix it with so it's not that big a deal. I am also enjoying the adventure as it gets me out of my comfort zone and makes me think.

If your on a budget and want to get going, then the far east lathes will get you there. Rick has had a rather unpleasent experience with an ENCO 12 x 36 and some wiring that was pear shaped from the get go.....I'm sure he can speak about it better than I.

Regards,

Dave

 

[n4zou]

I wonder how that ENCO lathe was never test run before it left the shop. He ordered it pre wired for 110v single phase. I worked for Southern Machinery and Supply in the mid 70's and we always test ran every machine we sold before it left the shop. I know it was a pain in the ass for him but he did get a much better motor out of the deal without paying extra for it. I'm sure he still has the defective motor too. I would bet a case of beer that when it was being built one or more coils had there numbered wires connected wrong internally. I've seen that happen more often than I care to remember. All you can do is remove the end brackets and check and see how it's actually wired up. Then you must attach those damn metal number tags to the wires. Another thing I wondered about was wanting it wired for 110v single phase when he had 3-phase power right at the machine. I would have ordered it with a 3-phase motor instead.

 

[steamer]

Well, I believe he stated that wasn't his choice, that the electrician wouldn't go for it.

But I defer to the thread in question ...

Dave

 

[n4zou]

Apparently that electrician was too lazy to drop a 3-phase line to the new lathe. I have the same basic import 13"X36" lathe. 110v was never an option on it. The motor that came with it is 220 volts single phase only. The only other option was a 3-phase motor, and that motor would have cost less. I would love to have 3-phase power at my place but that's never going to happen.

 

[steamer]

OK....?

 

[Herbiev]

Why no 3 phase. I wouldn't be without it. It cost the same as single phase 240v.

 

[Mosey]

I offer my experience with SBL as it might help him decide.
I have a 10K SB for about 5 years, the second of 2, after my first, a clapped-out 10L. I sold my first 10K to a professional across the street after about 5 years with it, and I wonder if it wasn't the sweetest one I will ever own. I miss it, and my friend loves it in his work making custom bamboo rods, etc. The one I have now has zero wear on it's flame-hardened bed, has a quick change gearbox, 2 collet closers, and most accessories you could wish for. It may have some wear in the cross-slide, but none that I worry about. It came on a factory cabinet base, and a solid wood top to which I added a custom made metal chip tray. Yes, I would love to have a Schaublin instead, but don't have the $20 or $30K to buy one, and I simply love this machine. I have the original bill of sale to Columbia University physics department from he 70's, so I know it's provenance. I would buy it again in a heartbeat. It has never failed me, and will certainly outlast me. Good luck with your decision.

 

[chuck foster]

over the years i have had two 9" south bend lathes, the first one was missing allot of parts but i was able to make or buy all the parts required (ebay and friends)

i got the second lathe from a good friend ($50.00) it needed very little work to get it running.
there is some good deals on these smaller older lathes but you have to know what to look for.
two of the biggest things to keep in mind are how much money you can afford to spend and what are you going to be making with the lathe.

i have a friend who makes small steam engines (1/4" to 3/8" bore) and he uses a 14 x 60 lathe, i think the lathe is kinda big for the size of work but he gets along with it very well.
another model building guy i know bought a hardhinge tool room lathe with ALL the bells and whistles and 5 years latter he is still paying for it (monthly).

chuck

 

[ninefinger]

I've been searching for a lathe for the last 3-4 months around here and I finally gave up on used and ordered new from Quality Machine Tools in PA on Friday. Its also a 12x36 like the enco Rick bought but I'm thinking its a better deal - time will tell when I receive it :shrug:. My research shows that for $3400 including shipping you get a few more extras the others don't have:
nicer QC tool post(wedge type) plus the 5 tool holders, not just one
Foot brake (none of the other offered this)
Coolant pump

as far as old South bends go - they do pop up from time to time but I found that like others mention there are always things that seem to be missing or need fixing which is OK if you want to do that as part of your hobby. I looked at the capabilities and the new lathes add a few more new time savers that I decided I wanted such as cam lock spindle for easy chuck swap out and being able to run in reverse without fear of the chuck unthreading. Also, a much larger spindle bore (1.5") will let me pass a longer chunk of stock through the spindle and not waste as much chopping it to a length for chucking.

I opted for the PM1236 model mostly because of the foot brake - hope it works. Its a 9-10 week lead time on these (biggest negative - especially if you need it now). grizzly has a similar model to the Enco but those have "open" threading gearbox - the PM 1236 is closed (no idea if it will make a difference in my shop but seems smarter).

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1236.html

Good luck with your search and decision!

Mike

 

[user 10585]

Thanks for the replies, my quest for larger machinery has only just begun. I am in no particular hurry, and will see if I can find a "cream puff" SBL or buy something new if I can't find what I want or get impatient. I would like to find something made in the good old USA if I can.
Dave

 

[n4zou]

I opted for the PM1236 model mostly because of the foot brake - hope it works. Its a 9-10 week lead time on these (biggest negative - especially if you need it now). grizzly has a similar model to the Enco but those have "open" threading gearbox - the PM 1236 is closed (no idea if it will make a difference in my shop but seems smarter).

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1236.html

That's a much better lathe. It's well worth the slightly higher price. I like the enclosed gearbox. An open gear box uses a total loss lube system so the oil ends up in the chip pan and then the coolant tank leading to scum floating on top of the coolant. It will operate with a lot less gear noise too. I love the foot brake! That's a real time saver when your doing production runs of many parts. I wonder if it comes with metric threading change gears? After 24 yrs I only just cut metric threads with my lathe but apparently I'll be cutting a lot more metric threads in the near future. I would make sure it can cut metric threads and would pay extra for the change gears if necessary.

 

[rake60]

I wonder how that ENCO lathe was never test run before it left the shop. He ordered it pre wired for 110v single phase. I worked for Southern Machinery and Supply in the mid 70's and we always test ran every machine we sold before it left the shop.

I can tell you without a doubt that Enco never test ran the lathe we bought.

That crate was completely undisturbed from the time it left China until we received it.
All of the original corner seals were intact and the headstock was still full of dragon
grease with no oil added.

When you buy an import machine you have to go over every bolt before even attempting
to power it up. After doing that, you will have a decent machine.

My experience with Enco was an exception and they did make it right in the end.
It just happened to take them 2 weeks to get there this time.

I have bought a lot of tools and machines from Enco in the past and will probably
continue to do so.

Rick

 

[ninefinger]

... I wonder if it comes with metric threading change gears? After 24 yrs I only just cut metric threads with my lathe but apparently I'll be cutting a lot more metric threads in the near future. I would make sure it can cut metric threads and would pay extra for the change gears if necessary.

I was sent the threading instructions for the lathe - yes it does cut metric but like almost all lathes this size the thread dial is only usefull for inch threads. For metric you need to back out of the cut and run in reverse, not disengaging the lead screw. Or use the thread cutting tool holder discussed by bogstandard and others somewhere on this site. (still run in reverse but no need to backout of the cut)