Hot-Bulb Semi-Diesel Plans Wanted

[Canyonman]

Hello All,

I recently came across an entry or two on YouTube for a Hot-Bulb Semi-Diesel. Most have been from a man named Hines located in Denmark. Searching the post provides no clues and any straight questions for plans seem to be ignored. Normal web search returns his info and a little more info but no plans anywhere.

Ideas? Help?

Take Care and Be Well,

Ken

 

[Jasonb]

They are all to his own design and he does not produce plans as far as I recall.

This is his website findsminimodelhotbulbengines.dk

I've done a couple of hot tube engines but castings no longer available

 

[Canyonman]

Hello Jasonb. Yes, I knew they were one-offs and I have been to the website. His engines are beautiful! Castings are not required as I can work from bar stock. Which is why I am searching for plans. If you have built a couple of engines might you have any plans?
Still Searching
Ken

 

[Canyonman]

Hi just a Bump.

 

[Stefan-K]

His Name is Find Hansen.
And He does not give out ANY Kind of Information. Not to mention plans.

 

[Canyonman]

Someone else must have built some [or one] There has got to be plans out there.
I am not looking for handouts I will pay [within reason]
Even just information seems to be scarce.
Any help Thanks
Ken

 

[gbritnell]

When I first saw his diesel engines on YouTube I was really impressed with what they were and thee quality of the builds. I contacted him through YouTube and asked if drawings were available or if he would share at least the diesel part of the engines. His response was, no!

 

[Canyonman]

Yea G, that's what I got too. Still there's gotta be something out there.

 

[weir-smith]

Model stationary diesel engine plans - a rare item indeed. It is not that difficult to build a self ignighting engine and model aero engines are a good example. Fine Hanson (Denmark) has built many fine examples however, he is not interested in sharing his designs or information. His engines are low pressure spray injection using I believe kero mixed with ether typically 30%. You may also note that the jerk pump used for the fuel is adjusted via a wedge which changes the stroke length. The problem is, it also changes the injection timing. His injector is of the popit type which has its limitations altho it works on engines with small diameter cylinders. Basically, if you can obtain reasonable cylinder pressure say 100psi and can inject (spray) a very small amount of voitile fuel then you can get the engine to run. Note, ether has the lowest self ignition point of all of the available (to the average person) types of fuel - just need to mix it with some kero.

I went down the path of designing a true diesel that is, one that will run on diesel. I started down the path of building a proof of type model that is, something that would go into the bin when I had finished with it.

Over a two year period, I made 12 fuel pumps and 8 injectors as well as rebuilding the engine twice. The poor thing now has so many holes where I changed things around it dosn't look the same as it once did.

Through this Forum, I was given good advice from several people and on that advice , I went back to basics. To run as a true diesel, you need approx. 500 psi to ignite the fuel. That means 20:1 minimum and no leaks. I set up a test and measured 300psi - not good enough so back to the drawing board. I made a blanking plate with commercial non return valves and a pressure gauge then ran the test again and was approaching 350psi. Made a new piston with additional rings and I now had well over 500psi and note, you could hardly turn the flywheel over. I reworked the valves and a further test provided an average of 500psi.

Then came the fuel pump problems. The best I could obtain from a conventional jerk pump was 1200 psi and you need a minimum of 1800 psi. In the end, I purchased a cheap small Chinese diesel engine fuel pump and removed the piston and its cylinder. This combination could produce over 4000psi so I now had a working pump.

My original injector was based on a pintal type which worked modestly well but was more of a spray rather than a mist and also dripped. I ended up purchasing the smallest pintel injector nozzle I could fine and made a new injector housing for it. The arrangement produced a very fine mist such that it was very difficult to see.

Except for some work on the timing, the engine ran reasonably well. This is a little long winded to get to the availably of suitable plans but note, you need to decide if you want a true diesel with all its problems or something simpler. What most people do not appreciate is, if you want to build a true diesel the pressures between the real thing and your model will need to be much the same. Basically you can't change the physics involved.

One engine I would recommend is the model of the Lister Diesel which was serialised in Model Engineer some time ago. A friend of mine purchased a complete engine and restored it as some of the components could have been better made. It now runs quite well on a 30% ether mix. I have included a photo of his engine which is running. I also have some info on it.

Other than that, you could take almost any four stroke engine design and modify it to run as a self igniting (diesel) engine. I am currently building a Fairbanks Morse three cylinder engine (photo included) which uses igniters. Also a work in progress, is a single cylinder vertical airblast diesel based on a 1904 engine located in Denmark.

I have acquired a wealth of information on these engines and if there is something in particular you are needing just send me a personal email.

Bruce W-S
Western Australia

Below is the part finished Fairbanks Morse engine

My proof of concept true diesel engine

 

[Canyonman]

Hi Bruce. Yea, I don't know what Mr. Hanson's problem is. You would think he would be proud to share. The request is a sincere acknowledgment of his talents. Also he could be making money on the plans, I know I would pay a small fee. With a digital download he wouldn't even have any annoyance other than the initial set-up. Oh well, I guess he has his reasons.
No, not long winded at all. A wealth of information. Thank You.
As I understand it, I believe you can use even a carburetor to load the "Hot Bulb", which pre-heats the fuel/air mixture giving almost a vapor for the cylinder charge. This also allows a lower psi in the combustion chamber. Maybe it does need an injector, I don't know. This may be way off base, I don't know. Feel free to educate me further
That Lister model looks quite interesting. I did some surfing; did you know some company in India is still making Listers? They have it listed as "multi fuel" recommended for "impoverished" areas with a need for power. I find that interesting 'cause it's not cheap by any means.
Your Fairbanks-Morse looks great! Is it a barstock build or are there castings somewhere? I, at one time, had a F-M Oilfield engine. When I could get the cranky thing to start it would walk all over the garage!
Your proof of concept engine looks to have a "hot tube" on the head???
Do you have a website?
Again Thanks. And on with the search.

 

[Tim Wescott]

I can't help with plans, but according to Wikipedia, the original oil (hot bulb) engines had fairly low compression ratios: Hot-bulb engine - Wikipedia, quite unlike Diesels.

 

[Tim Wescott]

It sounds like if you started from scratch you'd have to do some experimenting to get one working. If you just wanted a hot bulb engine, and not something that would run off of oil, I suspect you could use a carburetor and a hot tube for ignition. But it sounds like the whole "oil engine" thing means using a not-so-volatile fuel that gets injected into the hot bulb so that it can be vaporized.

I'm already out on a limb, but I suspect that if you just scaled down an original hot bulb engine, you'd have trouble keeping your bulb hot enough, because of a greater surface area to volume ratio. So a model may have to take measures to muffle the hot bulb, more than an original engine would have.

 

[Canyonman]

Thanks Tim. Might you have any links to an original hot bulb engine. I have some just would like to see if you have anything better.

 

[Tim Wescott]

No, I've seen numerous videos on YouTube, I've read "Internal Fire" by Lyle C. Cummins Jr. (from that Cummins family), and there's a section on hot-tube ignition at the back of "Gas Engine Construction" by Parsell & Weed. Other than bits & pieces I've read, that's about the extent of my received knowledge.

Mostly, if it's some interesting technical subject, I retain all the bits & pieces that I've ever read on the subject and I can usually barf them up on command. And I find hot bulb engines interesting -- so I've got lots of bits & pieces.

 

[Canyonman]

I have been finding much more information on HB engines. I find it funny that there was a big boom, so to say, of information dated 2013. Then a gap before hitting 2019.
The search goes on!

 

[Steamchick]

Hi Bruce, I like your test engine. Very conventional arrangement. I wonder - did you buy your gears for the valve drive/cam shaft drive? I have been looking and can't find any commercial gears at 2:1 ratio, and do not have the tools and ability to cut them. Ta,
K

 

[weir-smith]

I will answer the questions as follows:

The 2:1 gears used on my prototype were purchased out of the US and were of a very good quality. They had both types e.g. conventional square cut gears and the type I used. I will track down the supplier and advise. If you need square cut gears, there is a supplier in China via Ebay that has gears with teeth numbers from about 11 teeth to about 120 teeth in one tooth increments and they are cheap unlike the US made gears. I have used a pair in my Fairbanks Morse engine and can be seen on the right hand side of the engine. The brass gear is for the governor and came out of a water meter.

There have been several hot bulb engines built but I can't say that I have seen any plans as such. Do you have access to CAD? If so, it is not difficult to draw up the necessary components re the valves and hot bulb etc. You will have to decide if a vertical or horizontal engine is in order. Personally, I would suggest that the horizontal configuration would be easier. So just look at some of the many hit and miss model plans and just ignore the hit and miss components.

As for the information on the hot bulb parts, I will have a look at the mass of info that I have over next weekend and see if there is anything useful and advise. I have built all of my engines from bar stock, that is no castings have been used. The Fairbanks M is a good example of what can be done with bar stock. So don't be put off when castings have been use in any plans that you find. There is always a way to fabricate them.

I always look for interesting looking engines to model and there is plenty about to choose from to match your machine skills and equipment.

Bruce W-S

 

[Tim Wescott]

Hi Bruce, I like your test engine. Very conventional arrangement. I wonder - did you buy your gears for the valve drive/cam shaft drive? I have been looking and can't find any commercial gears at 2:1 ratio, and do not have the tools and ability to cut them. Ta,
K

Speaking of the grab-bag of unrelated detail in my brain:

www.wmberg.com
https://www.sdp-si.com/products/Gears/Index.phphttps://www.pic-design.com/products/gears/spur-gears/
I think the only gears I've actually ordered were plastic, from a surplus shop. No "your choice of brass, aluminum, or stainless". Be ready to save a lot of money -- over what you'd pay if you were worth $100 an hour (or whatever a good machinist makes these days) and machined them yourself.

Search on "Mechanical components" or "Precision mechanical components" in your favorite search engine. Then when you get to the manufacturer's site, navigate around looking for "spur gears".

Come to think of it, just searching on "spur gears" may get the job done.

 

[fencer]

I got interested in hot bulb engines after meeting an old fitter from Richard Hornsby's engineering factory where he started work in the brass gallery at the start of the last century .His knowledge of these engines was a great help in me understanding them.After I retired I went to the Lincolnshire Life Museum where their is an early example.They allowed me to measure and photograph the engine in detail.From this I was able to decide what scale was possible.I decided the most important part was the injector and how small it was possible to make a working example.The smallest I could make it was 3" scale which made an engine with a 13" flywheel.I drew up the engine from my measurements of the engine and plans that I obtained from a gentleman who owned the archives and plans of a huge number.When Siemans stored the archive it was in 50 1mtcu boxes what happened to them I don't Know.I did ask by email Find Handsen if he sold plans but the answer was no, but he did say that it is difficult to make a small injector for these engines .I did not pursue the construction of the engine.An interesting thing happened with that engine was that it had been owned form new by one farmer and when he gave it to an agricultural college the pump failed.They got on to Siemans of Lincoln who had taken over Ruston and Hornsby and asked if they had a replacement.They sent someone to look at the engine and were astonished at it's stamped number as it was built in the 1890's ,they decided to get their apprentice school to make a pump.I am still tempted but as the engine would be heavy and I am now 74 I think by the time I finish I wouldn't be able to lift it.I am interested in all your endeavours.
Frank

 

[Canyonman]

So Fencer, are you hinting at the fact that you have plans???