Help picking the right vise?

[Naiveambition]

A few months ago I bought a zx45 mil. 9.5x32 table. And wandered what the consensus is on vise sizing.


I have it boiled down to a Kurt 675, or 688, or the glacern 4 and 5 inch.

Now the Kurt 675 is a six inch vise, but the "tightening bolt" comes out the rear of the vise 1 3/8" , which loses Y axis space. The 688 is made to cure that issue, so, saving the y axis space. I can get the 675 for 25$ more than what the Glacern costs. So my first question would be which one would u guys pick. The Kurt or glacern.

Second issue is sizing to what I will work on, and that ranges from models, to anything else I can do. So I like the option of big work but will not be most of the time.
I am concerned about vise overhang on the table. How much is acceptable. With my table being 9.5" and the vise is 16.75", for all of the vises except the four inch vises. And they measure in around 11" .
So six inches at least hanging off when mounted in table center slot for the 6" and the 5". If needed to move to the outer slot, we're looking at 10 or so inches hanging off. This seems bad to to me for rigidness and safety.
Right now my thought is to buy a 4 inch, and mount anything bigger to the table or angle plates,etc... Or get the six.
???:wall: tool buying is such a dilemma:shrug:th_rulze

 

[kvom]

On Kurt and similar vises the removable jaws and be places on the outside ends of the fixed jaws, so you can clamp very wide work. You can also mount removable jaws wider than 6".

I have some 4" Kurts as well, but I would not want it to be my only vise on a larger mill. I have a 675 on each of my mills and am very happy with them. I will say that I bought both of the used much cheaper than the new price.

The table overhang is a non-issue in my opinion.

 

[petertha]

I went through the same process on my RF-45 mill. The unfortunate part of Kurt & Glacern chew up a lot of vertical height in the 6" jaw version, even moreso if you want to run a swivel table (I don't). The 4" versions are smaller, but then the width you can get between jaws is proportionately smaller.

I ended up getting a Bison which is beautiful, accurate & low profile vise. It came at a good ebay price because they are dropping this line. Bison is nice stuff, has gotten stupidly expensive lately.

Anyway, my vise looks a lot like these Gerardi's. If I was faced with buying one, I'd consider it too. Maybe someone has some direct experience to share. My only teeny beef is the exposed vise jaw thread always attracts chips & they can jam up screwing in & out. I wish there was some sort of cover, or maybe I can make a brush washer add-on. Good luck!

http://www.pts-canada.com/cgi/CGP2LMXE

 

[Wizard69]

If the cost differential is that minor go with the Kurt as last I knew they where still American made.

As for clearance issues that is always a problem, the vise can get in the way even on a Bridgeport. It is something that you have to live with and adapt too. If the vise doesn't impact your Y it will impact your Z for some operation in the future. If you know for a certainty that the overhang will impact a good percentage of your projected use then by all means consider a smaller vise if it will work. Otherwise opt for the bigger vise.

 

[Naiveambition]

Ok, understanding now that the jaws can be moved to accommodate larger pieces , would or is it wise to need more room than what your travel would be.?

So say a 4" vise will handle 10", and my useable cutting travel is 9.5.

Whereas the 6" vises will handle 16.5".

So far the census seems that the 6" would be more useable. Cost is not an overbearing concern. Shars has Kurts cheaper than u can buy from kurt.

 

[Swifty]

Just be careful with vices that have jaws that can be used in different positions, you may not get the openings that you want. Some jaw positions are for clamping on the inside of cavities, while others will only clamp a very small section of your part, only allowing for very light machining.

I use a 6" vice, but seldom have parts anywhere near that size in it, although if it's your only vice, this may be the size to have. I purchased a Kurt vice years ago (when working) to use on a CNC mill, it was a great vice.

Paul.

 

[kvom]

If you use the rear jaw positions for extra width then obviously you can't use parallels next to those jaws. The obvious solution is to use soft jaws and machine matching ledges on both. While the jaw bodies will be reasonably flat I would't rely on them for precision in supporting parts. And if you need more than the standard bite then get extra tall soft jaws.

And if none of those works clamp the work to the table.

 

[Wizard69]

Ok, understanding now that the jaws can be moved to accommodate larger pieces , would or is it wise to need more room than what your travel would be.?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Eventually you will end up machining something that is bigger than your axis travels. That big part can be clamped in a vise or to the table. Beyond that every setup solution is unique.

So say a 4" vise will handle 10", and my useable cutting travel is 9.5.



Whereas the 6" vises will handle 16.5".

Again I'm not sure why you are dwelling on this, it isn't uncommon to machine parts in a mill that are bigger than the axis travels. How you clamp the part is dependent upon the part, the machining operation and your imagination. An example here might be a display base for a large engine.

So far the census seems that the 6" would be more useable. Cost is not an overbearing concern. Shars has Kurts cheaper than u can buy from kurt.

There is no perfect solution for everybody. I wouldn't be surprised if you found yourself wanting more than one vise in the future. Oe reality is that very small parts are often better handled by a smaller vise or an insert vise.

 

[Naiveambition]

Thanx everyone for their input. Your answers are what I needed , so I can focus on the "needs" of buying a vise, rather than a somewhat blinded pick. Many threads I've read have complaints about their vise. Hopefully I'll skip this part with a nice vise from the start.

As for the vise, I think I'm going to choose the Kurt 675. Glacern is nice and cheaper bout a 110$. I think the 675 is prob more than I will need, but it's their if I need it. And as suggested ,just buy a smaller insert vise for small work.

 

[Naiveambition]

Thought I would give a shout out to everyone that Kurt has free shipping from the factory going on right now. Not sure how long it lasts. I was able to also get 10% off going thru Enco.woohoo1. Today was a good day.

Cannot wait till it's here. I've been using a compound drill press vice with my Taig milling attachment mounted in that, just to get a straight line.:hDe: Ill leave it to your imagination cause I'm too embarrassed to show a picture:hDe::noidea:

I ordered the 688 instead. The 675 I was not able to get new and in last years Shars catalog they were 450$. The budget was the same and for 62$ more I have the 688 which is more room than all the other considerations. Was surprised that a Kurt 4 " was only 30$ less. Expensive little things,!

 

[goldstar31]

Going back to the original question, the correct answer is there is no such animal as ONE vise.
The longer that you use a mill or a lathe or a whatever( they need vises as well) the more you realise that just how many are needed.

I've lost count about how many that I have- and there is always a time when I wish that I had 'Something else' to my heap.

Yesterday, I had lost/mislaid or whatever a 'centreing tool' which is nothing more complicated than a something like a D bit which is only a bit of round which is halved. It fits into a mill or a lathe and accurately positions where the lathe tool or drill or whatever is- and it is possible to use setting blocks, cigarette papers, feeler gauges, drill shanks and a million other things to good effect.

To get iit reasonably accurate, it is better to machine it in a collet( it depends on what sort of accuracy one is chasing) but holding a bit of round in a conventional vise with square jaws is- not easy. It needs something else. I have 'tucked away' a turret vice with vees and rounds and a bit of brass that drops to avoid damaging delicate bits. As far as I know, no one makes them anymore. Mine came from an old doctor who was also an engineer- and that is my take. So now, I have to transfer the little bit of round from the lathe to the mill to a tool and cutter grinder.

And it is only a bit of any sized round! No body describes one- I wonder why?

Norman

 

[kvom]

While I made soft jaws for my Kurts the first couple of times, I've now gone to ordering them from Monster Jaws. Can't beat the price, and the quality is superb. Check them out.

 

[petertha]

I ordered the 688 instead. The 675 I was not able to get new and in last years Shars catalog they were 450$.

I'm a bit confused. Sounds like you ordered a Kurt USA in the end? But when you say Shars, isn't that a Chinese company that makes/distributes 'Kurt style' vises (not the USA brand name). Is that what you mean?

 

[Naiveambition]

Thanks for the info on Monster jaws. I was kind of blowed away at the price of jaws. It surprises me still that almost every cut you make on a mill a different tool or device is needed. Why I always pick expensive hobbies is beyond me.
Maybe I should take up crotchet and make Christmas sweaters and covers

As regards to Shars. The catalog I recieved last year has Kurt brand name vises. I believe they are made by Kurt usa. They have all the marking, color, etc.. the same as Kurt. At the time only two models were available, being the 675, and 688. Though on the current website, only the 688 is available. The price between the two is the same for 688, but the 675 was bout a 100$ cheaper. With Kurt, the 688 appears to be the new model replacing the 675 they quit making.

I would imagine they are just sellers that ship factory direct. Which could explain why Shars only lists the 688 now. When I ordered from enco, they also shipped from the factory. I was thinking they would have them in stock, and sell accordingly. I do not know much about Shars, but looking thru their catalog most items appears to be of China origin. Some stuff you can buy is advertised as american made.

 

[deverett]

Going back to the original question, the correct answer is there is no such animal as ONE vise.
The longer that you use a mill or a lathe or a whatever( they need vises as well) the more you realise that just how many are needed.

I've lost count about how many that I have- and there is always a time when I wish that I had 'Something else' to my heap.
Norman

Which is why Harold Hall advocates the use of clamps for mounting work directly to the mill table in preference to a vice of any persuasion. A vice can make you lazy in mounting the job, that's why I use one!

(Norman's quote abbreviated)

Dave
The Emerald Isle

 

[barnesrickw]

Everybody should have at least one vise. Mine is making puns.

 

[AussieJimG]

Why not make your own?

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=21800

Jim

 

[goldstar31]

Which is why Harold Hall advocates the use of clamps for mounting work directly to the mill table in preference to a vice of any persuasion. A vice can make you lazy in mounting the job, that's why I use one!

(Norman's quote abbreviated)

Dave
The Emerald Isle

Actually, I have just printed off the 5 alternative designs from Mr Hall's excellent book. These effectively deal with 'Low Profiles', Again, he produced a 'Thin piece vise' rather similar to the one by Tubal Cain( Tom Walshaw) but none the worse for that. With more time and some warmer weather, I'm going to buy a bit of 25mm square or raid the scrap box. The trouble is that I have two sizes of slots for the mill and tool and cutter grinder which means 20 of the little beasts.