Flash Steam or Monotube boilers

[doubletop]

There's been a number of references to this subject on my "Scotch Boiler" topic. It needs a topic of its own.

As a start here's Bob Kirtlys 100mph plus steam driven hydroplane. Apparently he has/(had) the record at 120mph!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srq_pC4v5wo

 

[Blogwitch]

Isn't it wonderful what you can get up to with a bit of heat and water, plus of course, a little bit of engineering as well.

John

 

[bearcar1]

Now where's the fun in all that? 100MPH in a circle, and tethered no less. A monkey could drive that thing. Now then, unhook that bad boy and lets see what that old geezer can do with it. :big:

BC1
JIM

 

[fcheslop]

You re not wrong John (Bogs) 120 MPH for an A class hydroplane its absolutely brilliant just shows what can still be done by individuals experimenting.Mr Kirtly wrote an article for the model engineer in the late 80s or early 90s I think it was about the time that I dabbled in flash steam but I couldn't compete at this level and some times you have to know when to quit.There used to be a good small book on flash steam but the dementia's kicking in at the moment.

 

[Blogwitch]

BC,

Now where's the fun in all that? 100MPH in a circle, and tethered no less. A monkey could drive that thing. Now then, unhook that bad boy and lets see what that old geezer can do with it.

Any deranged idiot can get a blown V8 from an auto supermarket and make something go fast, in a straight line. That is why in the UK we don't buy large American cars, we need our cars to be able to steer around corners and sharp bends.

This chappie has most probably spent most of his modelling life developing that small engine and flash boiler, a tiny tweek here, a little twang there, with an eventual culmination where he took the world steam powered record.

In the model engineering world, this is equivalent to all your land and water speed records and all your dragster records as well. The only difference is, he has most probably only spent a few hundred bucks to get to that high position rather than bottomless pockets that everything I mentioned above would require.

This is model engine designing and making beyond your wildest dreams.

So please don't belittle it just because it has to be tethered to control all the power that is being produced.


Fcheslop,

I am not completely ignorant of model boat issues, for the last fifty years, I was an avid model boat and steam engine designer and maker, but nothing that I have done could compare to what he has achieved. That is true dedication.


Bogs

 

[HS93]

as bogs said a work of art, all built and re built so many times to get the max out of it, much better than a wood plynth and glass jar over it.

peter

 

[SAM in LA]

What a hobby.

That boat just screams as it goes around.

th_confused0052 th_confused0052

SAM

 

[bearcar1]

If my Grandmother had wheels she'd have been a wagon too. I was making a joke about the craft having to be tethered. I do appreciate all of the I'm sure hard work and hours that went into the power plant and hull designs. I just found it amusing in my American way of sick humor to see such an apparent work of art going balls out to nowhere is all. I apologize to anyone that decided to take offense at my remarks. I have owned two MGBs, one while I was a teenager and one that I drive now, and both of them for just the very things that have been mentioned, that and NOT having deep pockets. :bow:

BC1
Jim

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks for the pics peter. I was wondering what they looked like up close.
Awesome!


(I knew what you meant Jim.)

 

[Blogwitch]

Sorry for flying off a bit there Jim, but I am a great believer in dedication and personal achievement against the odds.

Even a lowly hand hacked wobbler deserves praise, purely because it starts as one person's dreams, and is then taken to the end, no matter what the setbacks.

People very rarely get to see the trials, tribulations and heartache that a project like that takes. Just imagine spending say six months development time and making, only to find it didn't work like it should have, so start again down a different route. That is called dedication to your hobby.


John

 

[fcheslop]

John I certainly did not imply that you were ignorant of model steam boat design and Know that is not the case.

 

[Blogwitch]

F,

It seems like all apologies today.

It wasn't meant to infer anything, but if it did offend, I am sorry.

John

 

[fcheslop]

No apologise needed John.ALL THE BEST

 

[doubletop]

What have I started here guys?

From the site http://www.flysteam.co.uk/hydro.htm

This branch of boat modelling is unique to the UK, it demands more from the builder/designer than any other form of model making I am aware of, which may account for the fact that its exponents are few and far between. It will be a very sad day if we lose it. These boats are the extreme of small steam engine performance where as mentioned earlier Bob Kirtleys PiscesII turns out 385 BHP per litre of cylinder capacity, 5 HP from 13 cc. This is a formidable performance and anyone can be forgiven for disbelieving the accuracy of this statement; consider the facts. There are two classes of Hydro. in this category, class A, up to 9lbs weight, 15cc IC engine or steam; and class B, up to 16 lbs weight, 30cc IC engine or steam. Notice that apart from the fact that the steamers are allowed to weigh a bit more than the IC engined boats they compete on equal terms and their speeds are very close. In class B Bob Kirtleys boat is making 120 mph (200 kph) and the IC boats are at about 130 mph (235 kph). Now the 30cc racing two stroke engine turns out about 5, some say 7 BHP so it must be true that Bob's Steamer is making about the same BHP but it is of only 13 cc displacement which works out at 385 BHP per litre. I have been asked by persons corresponding through this web site; how is this level of power achieved? "From a blooming steam engine," as one man once colourfully put it!

This guys has a flash steam plant in an aeroplane!!! Take the time to look over his site he has some really interesting stuff

The two books are "Flash Steam" Edgar Westbury circa 1949 and "Experimental Flash Steam" By J H Benson and A A Rayman 1973. I've read the first that got me here and am looking out for the second.

Pete

 

[fcheslop]

Thanks for the Link Pete,a very interesting site and it was the A A Raymon book I was thinking about

 

[Gemhund]

Okay, that is a most amazing vid and steam motor I have ever seen..
Not being the sharpest tool in the shed, can anybody point me to how does a steam engine get that kind of revolution? How does a burner heat water up to that temperature ( I assume) and give that kind of power?
I understand the flash concept i.e high heat, but how is it done?
Oxy/hydrogen maybe ?
Wide eyed, Hans

 

[doubletop]

Hans

Although this guy is into flying steam engines (yes flying) and not boats he has a pretty good explanation on this link. http://www.flysteam.co.uk/hydro.htm

Basically instead if heating a tankful of water until it boils off, as in a conventional boiler, these engines us small gauge stainless steel tube,in this case heated until red hot, and water is pumped through it. Theb water instantly "flashes to high pressure steam and goes straight into the engine. As well as driving a propeller, the engine has a pump attached which sucks more water from the lake and through a filter into the hot tubes and off you go until the burner runs out of gas (either UK 'gas' or US 'gas').

Hey; I've only read the book and seen the film fcheslop has been there and done that and had his boat to 70mph.

Pete

 

[Blogwitch]

This is a pic from Model Boat Mayhem, and it clearly shows, these boats don't sit in the water, but on it.

It does in fact prop ride, that is most probably only the bottom half of the propellor, one blade, in the water (more efficient) and the front sponsons only touch occasionally to give stability. All that is achieved by years of trial and error, and a little luck at times.

Bogs

 

[fcheslop]

Hi Hans,I don't know what is in Mr Kirtleys hydro plane.But the last one I built had a flash boiler wound in a Figure of 8 about if memory serves me right 10mm dia stainless tubing and I think I used about 12meters but not sure it was nearly 25 years ago it had two blow lamps and two feed pumps and was driven by a uniflow engine .The problems I couldn't over come was that the plant started oscillating as if some one was slamming a throttle open and shut and I couldn't find the cause you have to remember at these revs even the feed pumps valves start to oscillate and even though I had kept the lift on the pumps to a few thou the problem persisted I'm now pretty certain that I was encountering reverse flow in the boiler.In the end I had taken the project as far as my skills allowed and knew that I would never be able to reach the level of skill and commitment of Mr Kirtly who I believe is having another go at the record and if so wish him the best of luck.What originally got me interested in flash steam and I suppose steam boating was an elderly gentleman who sailed a straight runner on South Shields Marine Park this plant was flash steam and had seen a lot of use over the years and I often wonder what became of it.This gentleman helped me immensely by passing on a little of his knowledge by being approachable and willing to talk to a young man on my rare Sunday morning visits.Thanks

 

[fcheslop]

Sorry I did not answer your question my burners used petrol and were of the vaporising type fed from a pressurised tank I used to use a bicycle pump to start and maybe that's whats going on at the start of the video clip.Its important to remember that this speed has been achieved through a lot of hard work and persistence by this gentleman on the development of the steam plant and hull.The books Pete listed earlier are a starting point but sorry to say I don't know how far the hobby has developed in the last 25 years.Just looked at MY HOBBY STORE and they list a set of drawings for Pisces2 drawing number M72 Shows the engine and boiler and some info on the hull.Thanks