Flame Licker "Jan Ridders" not working

[orangeray]

Hey, my name is Michael
A month ago I started working on my first Flame Licker for a school project. This week I've finished it and saddly it isn't running at all. I saw some trouble shootings for Flame Lickers and read a lot about running this engine right, but there's nothing that fits my situation, so I've decided to ask you guys.

I'm not sure but I think the problem with my Flame Licker is, that the control piston on the left is opening way to early because of the air pressure. I' ve made a video where you can see my engine and how it runs, especially at the end of the video there's a SlowMotion shot which shows the cylinder movement slowly:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3OzK0dAcBk&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

Thanks for your help! And sorry for my English (I'm from Switzerland)

Here some pictures of my engine:

 

[JLeatherman]

I believe it moves like that in the video because it is drawing in room-temperature air. When you draw in hot air from the flame, that air cools after the valve is shut and creates a vacuum. The motion of the control piston due to air compression won't happen when there is a vacuum in the cylinder. I built a different style of flame licker, a "Poppin" but when you spin it without a flame nearby the compression of the piston returning to the top of the cylinder causes the flapper valve to be blown out slightly (similar to the movmement of your control piston) yet the engine runs happily along with a flame. I suspect you have a more mundane issue with yours. My biggest issue with mine was piston fitment. I made mine from graphite rod, which I sourced and used at a nominal diameter. Although it appeared to fit well it turned out that the OD was not perfectly round and it had poor sealing around the piston as a result. I had to make a new piston and cylinder at a smaller diameter before mine ran properly.

Given that yours appears to have decent compression, by noting the movement of the control piston, and also it appears not to have an issue with excess friction, have you tried changing the timing? It looks to me as though the timing should be more advanced, i.e. the control piston should close sooner. This gives the gas in the cylinder more time to cool and contract. If that fails I would check more fully the seal your control piston has both with regards to the cylinder bore and the flame entry window.

 

[Swifty]

If it's any consolation, I made the twin cylinder version and can't get it to run properly either.

Paul.

 

[orangeray]

@JLeatherman Thansk for your fast answer! Yeah I didn't think about this, until now I wasn't able to test the engine with a flame that is hot enough. What would you recommend should I use to burn the wick?
So you think theres not to much friction? I'm not sure because I saw some engines where the flywheel on it's own was moving for 1-2 minutes.

@Swifty The one from Jan Ridders? Yeahh at least I'm not the only one
Orangeray

 

[Swifty]

Hi orangeray, yes mine is a Jan Ridders design. I tried different fuels in the burner, but it made no difference, so still use methylated spirits as the fuel.

Paul.

 

[orangeray]

Alright, I'll try it with this fuel tomorrow, gonna post how it went.

Michael

 

[JLeatherman]

I run mine with 99.8% pure methanol (methyl alcohol) purchased from Amazon.com. I made the wick for mine by buying some premade wick for an oil lamp and cutting a strip off one edge. It more or less unraveled when I did that, but once I had it twisted up and shoved into the burner it's been working fine.

 

[portlandron]

I use Denatured Alcohol in mine. It can be found at most paint stores.
I have found that anything else creates to much moisture when it burns and makes the valve stick.

 

[Cogsy]

I've built one of these and it was difficult to get it to run. I do think you've got a bit too much friction on the flywheel - it should spin a lot longer than that. Are you using unsealed bearings with all the grease washed out? A bit of graphite from a lead pencil is enough lubrication for them.

As for the engine, you need to make sure the valve cannot be drawn too far down the cylinder when it closes. It should seal the port and then be restricted from going any further. If not, precious vacuum power is wasted drawing the valve down the cylinder and then pushing it back up the cylinder, rather than pulling the piston up the cylinder (which is what you're after).

I use methylated spirits to run mine and it burns hot enough and clean enough to run.

Your engine looks well made. I'm sure you'll eventually get it to run.

 

[Naiveambition]

I second cogsy. There must be No friction at all. These motors have almost no power so, when friction is even minimal , it's robbing the motor.

I built the Poppin, and went thru switching fuel, remaking parts and so on,but when it rolled over freely, it started right away. My particular issue was figment between the crank and piston rod.

With just flywheels on their bearings I would average 30 revolutions. With piston and no valve I would get somewhere around 10 and with valve maybe 2 to 5 revolutions.

Mine is cast iron cylinder and piston, and runs great. After every few runs I will take it apart and clean, and also oil with graphite or pencil lead. As of now not showing any signs of wear.

 

[orangeray]

Thanks for your answers!

I'm using a sealed bearing, any tips how I could get rid of the sealing? Where could I get bearings which are already unsealed?

Picture of the bearing:

Orangeray

 

[Swifty]

Easy to pull the seals out, I just use a small jewellers screwdriver and hook it on the inside diameter and flick it out. Make sure that you wash out the grease with a solvent.

Paul.

 

[Cogsy]

I use either a small screwdriver or an o-ring picker. If it has metal shields it can be a little tougher than rubber seals but still do-able, there will be a small gap between the metal shield and the inner race to get a thin probe in. Metal shields are not actually seals and do not contact the inner race, so they don't add any friction, but the grease inside is what is creating the drag. Once you wash the grease out completely they will spin a lot more freely.

Open bearings can be bought almost as easily as sealed bearings in most sizes, but watch out in the smaller sizes as the width of the bearing is often thinner for the open variety in miniature sizes. Depending on your plans this can be critical (although normally where a bearing of open width is designed and you buy a wider sealed bearing and it won't fit).

 

[orangeray]

I just washed the bearings, but I'm still not sure if it is enough. I'm gonna upload a video when I try running it the next time.

Thanks for your answers

Michael

 

[Blogwitch]

Personally, I wouldn't worry much that you can't get a long free running time on your flywheel.
I was discussing that with Jan a few years ago and was told as long as it turns over a few times it will be OK.

The critical bits are

NO lubrication at all on the cylinder and piston
Make sure your flame is exactly in the right position and at the correct length
I tried the bent type of actuating rod, but found the original design of a right angled one much better. Have a look at the picture.

http://s202.photobucket.com/user/bogstandard_photos/media/Bogs%20pictures/Boxergulp2.jpg.html

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyrWRBoC-2c[/ame]


John

 

[orangeray]

The critical bits are

NO lubrication at all on the cylinder and piston
Make sure your flame is exactly in the right position and at the correct length
I tried the bent type of actuating rod, but found the original design of a right angled one much better. Have a look at the picture.

I'll try to run it tomorrow if I can find a wick, which is going to work. So should I remake my actuating rod?

Michael

 

[Blogwitch]

Hi Michael,
I have found a better picture of the operating rod I made.

As for position of the flame.
Just to the side of the inlet hole towards the head.
Wick length, about the same length as the inlet hole, but place the wick start, where it exits the holder about 5mm (3/16") below the hole bottom edge, wick diameter, I tried all different sizes of diameter, but found that 1/4" was about ideal.
I did at one time make a couple of gas burners, but because I couldn't get them to run very cleanly, they eventually gummed up the cylinders, requiring a good clean out, which you need to do after any decent run anyway.
There is a bit of a knack to starting, I used to warm the cylinders up for about 30 seconds with a blowtorch, then let it soak the heat for about another 30 seconds, then light your wick and try again. It really is an art to get them running, but once you get the sweet spots for the wick, try moving it around by about 1/16" in all directions, you can do it every time. I actually had the wick resting against the cylinder, that way, no cold air can get drawn in.

John

 

[orangeray]

Hey guys

So I've been away for a long time due to stress in school. Now I have finished my apprenticeship as a polymechanic and I though I'd give my little engine another try as I was not able to get it to work until now.
I think I figured out what the problem is. The piston that should close the hole is opening way to early and I'm not 100% sure why it's moving like that.

Video of the Piston movement:
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q96Yw5Zklg&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

I hope you guys can help me with my problem so I can get that little engine running

Greetings from Switzerland
Michael

 

[Blogwitch]

Michael,

I suspect that it is the operating rod causing the problem. When you push on the operating rod to cover the flame hole with the smaller contra piston, does it try to open the inlet to atmosphere when you let go of the operating rod?
Maybe you haven't got enough vacuum in between the two pistons.
A flame licker works by the hot air cooling down in the cylinder, forming a vacuum and pulling the main piston back up the cylinder, so if the contra piston is moving back, then there will be no vacuum formed.
It is the vacuum that sucks both pistons together on the return stroke and keeps the cylinder sealed until the main piston operates the rod and breaks the seal, allowing the cycle to repeat itself.

John

 

[orangeray]

Hei John

I think the operating rod is working fine, if I let go it doesn't move so that should work. As for the pistons they should form a vacuum, if I cover the hole with my finger and try to move the flying wheel, it is blocked and can only be moved with "force". Maybe I used the wrong material for the pistons, I used normal steel, same material as the cylinder, might that be a problem?

Michael