Finishing off a 5" Gauge Supper Simplex Loco

[SBWHART]

I decided some time ago that the Mabel loco I'm building would not suite my needs so thats bin put under the bench to be finished off some other time. I started to look arround for a completed or a nearly running 5" loco to buy, and came across this one.

Its a Supper Simplex to Nigel Evans design with a Belper Boiler its a very popular loco simple to build with a good performance, ther's about 5 that run regularly at our club.

Don't you Tim. I know your lerking :big:

Its about 90% complete but what sealed it was it has a boiler cirtificate tested to 200 psi for running at 100 psi, it was built by a guy who unable to complete it due to ill health, the price was right so i took it on.

Briefly it needs most of the plumbing work doing, including a boiler feed pump, a lubricator, and a good tidy up, I wan't to try and get it in steam for the boiler steaming test by the end of summer if i can, then I'll do the tidying up work including a repaint through the winter.

First job is to make the feed pump. you can get a casting for it but I dropped on a chunk of bronze so first job was to square it up and mark the key holes out.

Then centre it up under the mill zero the DRO and set the vice stop, then rough drill out for the bore and finish off with a 14mm reamer, drill the cover holes and the bypass hole.

Flip it round in the vice and drill the cover holes at the other end.

Put it on its side and drill and tap for a plug and the outlet hole.

Onto the other side and drill and tap for the inlet hole, the bottom of the hole has four 2mm holes drilled on a pitch circle in the bottom.

Then over onto the the tapping stand to thread the rest of the holes.

Now to check out where it fits ??? the streacher it fits on should be 1 1/8" wide for some reason the guy made it 1 1/2" wide and no holes are drilled, its a complete strip down to get the streacher out nothing for it but to change the fixing.

But thats for another day.

Stew

 

[doubletop]

Stew

I've been waiting for you to make a start on this. Now you have started the feed pump, are you doing the right one? Martin Evans re-designed it for the Super Simplex and when I got mine apart I found I had another version again.

When you get that stretcher out remove the one above the eccentric and mill out the center. you can then get to the eccentric to lube from the top and apparently it gives it some clearance

Pete

 

[steamer]

Nice Start Stew!

Dave

 

[SBWHART]

Stew

I've been waiting for you to make a start on this. Now you have started the feed pump, are you doing the right one? Martin Evans redesigned it for the Super Simplex and when I got mine apart I found I had another version again.

When you get that stretcher out remove the one above the eccentric and mill out the center. you can then get to the eccentric to lube from the top and apparently it gives it some clearance

Pete

Hi Pete

I'm making the pump for the super simplex, I came across a number of versions too, the pump for the super was upgraded from the lessons learnt from the other versions.

Thanks fro the tip regarding the stretcher I was going to try and fit the pump around it but after a good study, I decided that this would probably lead to other complications, just spent the last couple of days stripping the engine down, I was trying to avoid this but I think this will save me a lot of head aches down the line, as the strip down showed up one of two areas I wouldn't be happy with. I'll just take my time and build it up to my satisfaction.


Thanks for your interest Dave.

Stew

 

[SBWHART]

Her's a few pics of the stripped down loco.

The linkage is comming out as well, but that will be in a couple of weeks.

And the boiler and supper heater.

Stew

 

[arnoldb]

It's nice to see you starting work on this one Stew Thm:

I'll just take my time and build it up to my satisfaction.

Aye - That's the spirit.

Kind regards, Arnold

 

[doubletop]

Looks like an opportunity for a repaint. To inspire you

Before (mine was in a bit of a state)

Stripped and cleaned

Primed

Painted - I used smooth Hammerite spray cans. It goes a bit thin at the sharp edges bit gives what I'm hoping to be a durable finish

(there's that opening above the eccentric I mentioned.)

Pete

 

[Lesmo]

I was trying to avoid this but I think this will save me a lot of head aches down the line, as the strip down showed up one of two areas I wouldn't be happy with. I'll just take my time and build it up to my satisfaction.

Hi Stew

So it looks as if this project could take a little more time than we might imagine then, judging by your previous high standards. Will be following along as usual.

Cheers Les

 

[SBWHART]

Thanks for you're interest Les

Peter I was thinking about using hammerite I guess thats sealed it you're looks great.

Are they wick type oilers i can see on the cut away streacher over the wheel bearings.

I'll definatly open out that streacher to get to the pump eccentric, a couple of the guys at the club have worn the pump eccentric out on their simplexes they had to make new eccentric straps.

Did to case harden the velve linkage ?.

Stew

 

[doubletop]

Stew

Yes, they are the wick oilers. If you look at the grotty pic you can see the end of the tube and the bent over pipe cleaner. The other end just sits in the top of the horn and drips across the gap into a countersunk hole in the axle box.

I do plan to harden the linkages. The Terence Holland articles in currently running in ME suggest its optional. I believe my loco was run pretty frequently at a club, for want of a technical term to describe it, it's shagged. I was aware of the issues with it when I purchased it, none of which can't be sorted. I'm reaming the parts to the next size up and making oversize pins. It's working out quite well going from imperial to metric pins. As Kasenite isn't readily available any more I've got hold of some "Cherry Red". I tried it the other day, a pretty easy job. It cleans up OK just needs the parts polishing afterwards. Something that you'll have no problem with. For me the other parts is either remake the part (piston, piston rods, crosshead, crosshead bars, cylinder gland nut) or make new bronze bushes.

Pete

 

[doubletop]

Stew

Looking through my pics I find I've got a better one of the modified stretcher over the eccentric, and the oiler cups. They do have caps for running.

This was just after I'd finished milling the opening to remove the two bodged holes.

Hope that helps

Pete

 

[SBWHART]

Thanks for the information and advice Peter it's much apreciated.

Finished of the pump piston

Then whilst I waited delivery of a 5/8"*26 BSB tap and die decided to strip out the streachers for modifying, and uncovered a load of problems, the linkage has bin made as rough as a bears arse, not only is the finish crap, loads of things have been bodged to fit, the coupling rods should articluate but they are locked solid, screws missing etc etc etc, its such a bag of crap that I decided the only thing to do was to strip it down and build it back up fixing things as I go, it looks like I'll have to remake/rework lots of parts.

This is it stripped down.

One positive things that the strip showed up however is that the wheel bearings can be lubricated through the centre of the axle.

I've got more to do to get it running than I thought though



Stew

 

[doubletop]

I've got more to do to get it running than I thought though

Stew

You knew that would be the case. You'd never accept second best.

An observation now you've got it apart. Are you sure its a Super Simplex? You mention the articulation of the coupling rods. On the base Simplex the joint is on the drive pin on the Super its separate to the rear of the drive pin. Your frames have round holes for the inlet/exhaust pipes, on the Super they should be oval for different pipework fittings. Mine came as an 'extended' simplex. It's a base Simplex with an extended cab and is 3/4" wider over the running boards.

I ask the question because if you are re-making motion parts the dimensions are different between the two types so you'll need the correct drawings.

Pete

 

[SBWHART]

Pete, You're correct about the coupling rods, they had me scratching my head as they didn't match the drawing for the supper, measured the hole centres and they didn't match either, then compared them with the simplex and everything tied together, so I recon its a simplex with a belpher boiler, goodness knows what cylinder size I'll find when i strip them down. Luckily I have drawings for both types.

I recon I have a case to take it back as it was advertised and sold as a supper simplex, but thats not my way, supper or a plain simplex I would have bought it any way, I was just not switched on enough to spot the diference, as for the problems well I went into it with my eyes open, I could see that the linkage was rough and reconed that I could tidy it up, its just a bit worse than i thought.

Stew

 

[doubletop]

Stew

I went through a similar head scratching session on some basic dimensions as length over the buffers was neither a Super or base Simplex. Equally I knew no different but it came with adequate documentation for both and it didn't take long after I got it home to work out what it was. Like you it didn't make a jot of difference to my decision to purchase. I was aware of its faults, in fact it came with a set of photos taken in 2002 documenting the major issues. Obviously nobody had done anything about them in the intervening 10 years.

I'm working through the problems and enjoying every moment.

Pete

 

[SBWHART]

I'm working through the problems and enjoying every moment.

True very true ;D ;D

A bit more progress I seem to swapping about on this I like to work a bit more methodical, but I keep having to put parts aside whilst I wait delivery of something, I've tried planning ahead but my plans keep comming unstuck.

Cut a sqaure in the streacher that covers the feed pump eccentric so that it can be lubricated.

Then the 1/4 dia s/steel balls arived so back onto the feed pump.

Made the front cover and gland this calls for an odd thread size 5/8 * 26 BS Brass, luckily I was able to borrow a tap and die from a club member.

To seat the balls you have to give tham a sharp square bash using a drift.

Then carfully measure the depth to the ball.

Then work out the length of the fitting to give the ball a 1/32 lift so that the valve works correctly.

These are the pump bits

Then I had to put this aside whilst I took delivery of some 3/8 steel plate for the mounting steacher.
:

So on with something else

Stripped the cylinders down to take a look, (bores 1 1/2") some good bits some bad, the steam galleries on one cylinder had been quite mangled, the other had just been drilled under size, not much I could do with the mangling the best i could do was to open up the undersize ports in the other cylinder to balance the steam flow a bit better. So set it up in the mill and lined the holes with a drill and a square by Mk 1 eyeball then opened them out to 1/8

Then with swiss files joined the holes up.

The valve boxes had some studds misssing, so made some of these but I had to turn down some 4mm bar to 3.55 (4BA) for this I used this little gadget I've shown this before but it won't harm to show again.

Itys a small moving steady

To use make a bush for the gadget the size of the raw bar.

Then turn a spiggot on the end of the bar the size you want to turn down too, to set the tool in the gadget

Put the bar in the lathe roughly centre the gadget start the end of the bar into the bush and off you go.

Cut the studs of to length and thread job done.

 

[ProdEng]

I like the steady, have some M2 and M1.6 bits to make and one of those would come in handy :bow:

Jan

 

[steamer]

Stew....I've got one of those that I got at a flea market....but I've never tried it....guess I'll have to!

Dave

 

[SBWHART]

Well I guess its time i brought you all up to date with this project, I must admit I've been a little remis at taking picture the reason being is my trusty old shop camera started playing silly buggers, and I've only just got a replacement.
So what have i been up to:- well I've more or less remade everything you see in this picture, this doesn't include the cylinders and vlave chest, but everything else I've remade including fitting cast iron pistons and rings.

This is my pile of bits I've scrapped off so far.

Still got a few more bits to make:- motion plate bits for the lifting link and valve link, when these bits are done I will have everything to start putting it back together but I I know this will take a bit of fitting and fetling to make everything to look buisness like. I'm getting a bit fed up with the project so before i put it together I'm planning on a quicky engine build, my simple horizontal mill engine.
Stew

 

[SBWHART]

Finished of the expansion link assembly this morning.



Its the bit that puts the loco in reverse

I'm going to park this project for a short while as I'm starting to get weary of it and I don't want my concentration to wonder and end up makeing a cock up.

So I'm going to make a start on the simple horizontal mill engine I drew up.


Stew