ER-16 Collets and Chuck

[Metal Butcher]

I'm set up with 5C on the lathe and can handle the full 1 1/16" capacity through the headstock. It's nice except that I like to work with metric and I don't have a metric collet set yet. I'm tempted to go to an ER40 collet chuck that would thread onto the lathe spindle. That would still give me full through spindle capacity, and allow me to handle imperial and metric sizes without issue. Chances are pretty good I'll stay with 5C as I want to get a 5C HV collet indexer and a 5C chuck for the 4th axis on my mill. Metric collets (or emrgency collets) are just going to have to be invested in. Expanding collets are also available in 5C.

To me a MT to ER adapter for the lathe doesn't make much sense unless you're sure you'll never work on long parts. But, for $49 a set like Bob has would be well worth having around if you don't have any collets at all.

I agree with every thing you said, and its makes good sense to me. Bob's purchase and reason for it, also makes perfectly good sense.

I had to sort out my thoughts and understanding of the available ER system. For me to change direction with what I already have on hand, dosen't make sense for my particular situation.

Adding the additional "metric collets" seems to be a good way to go based on what you already have, and intend on adding in the future, if you were to ask me.

-MB

 

[Metal Butcher]

I just took a quick look for metric 5C collets. This might not be the best deal or up to your quality standards, but it seems to be a lot for the money.

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-C-METRIC-Coll...QQptZBI_Tool_Work_Holding?hash=item4cedd44dba

-MB

 

[mu38&Bg#]

I looked up CTC that Bob bought his collets from and they have a metric 5C set for $75!! I might take a chance how bad can they be?

 

[Metal Butcher]

I looked up CTC that Bob bought his collets from and they have a metric 5C set for $75!! I might take a chance how bad can they be?

Hold on before you make a decision! The collet set from CTC is only26 pcs. $75 plus shipping ($104.) to my location equals a total of $179!!!!!

The link I provided to the E-Bay seller is $120 with free ship, and its 28 pcs!!!

-MB

 

[Blogwitch]

Having used all the systems mentioned, and still use most of them, I can honestly say that none are perfect. All seem to have their own quirky ways of getting things done.

If the system you have can achieve say 75% of your needs, then you are onto a winner.

I used to use my ER collet system for holding cutters in my mill, but found that sometimes I needed 3 hands to mount a cutter, plus also, I lost about 2.5" of throat height, so now I invariably use R8 collets, unless I have an obscure size that my R8 collets won't hold.

But that doesn't mean the ER collets will never be used again, they will be used not only in my spindex, but on my interchangeable tooling between lathe and RT.

The 5C is the one I use mainly one the lathe, I use it about 95% of the time, but I do wish they would bring out something that could hold will the same accuracy, but up to 2" in diameter.
The only one I don't use now is the MT collet system, mainly because I don't have machines that will use them any more, without modification adapters. But that was one system I was glad to get rid of, and what Bob mentioned. They are a self gripping taper, and at times, it seemed like you were beating your machines to death to release them. But if that is all your machine will take, then they are just like any other collet system, and no worse than many.

When you boil it all down, no matter what collet system you get, it will be more versatile than fixed holders, and most probably far superior accuracy than your 3 jaw chuck with normal jaws.

Blogs

 

[kustomkb]

but I do wish they would bring out something that could hold will the same accuracy, but up to 2" in diameter.

they do, their called 25c. Nice to have if you're rich :

http://www.shophardinge.com/product.aspx?partNo=18010019020000

 

[shred]

I mostly use my ER's for holding tools and drills. Picked up that habit from a friend with a commercial CNC shop that puts all their tooling in ER collets; ER-16, with a few 20's and 32's thrown in. They make a lot of sense in a CNC environment-- any tool holder can hold any tool.

My ER chuck has less runout than my small drill chuck which is helpful for not-breaking tiny drills. I don't know if this is true in all cases. It's also really handy for holding metric cutters and other oddball sizes.

The only time I'll hold stock with ERs in the lathe is when I have small stock that I don't have a 5C for as I don't have a /64ths 5C setup. Otherwise 5C is the stock-holding collet of choice.

If you're all tooled up to hold any cutter in R8's or whatever, then there's less need to get yet another collet system.

 

[mu38&Bg#]

Hold on before you make a decision! The collet set from CTC is only26 pcs. $75 plus shipping ($104.) to my location equals a total of $179!!!!!

The link I provided to the E-Bay seller is $120 with free ship, and its 28 pcs!!!

-MB

I hadn't gone as far as checking shipping. It seems these people sell on Ebay too. I was looking for some ER16 chucks at one time, I think I saw the same seller, but don't remember the name. I hate to buy Chinese, but I won't be able to avoid it for this. The last time I saw Hardinge metric collets on thEbay the set went for $600.

 

[lock-ed]

I see several are considering to buy the CTC ER chucks and collets.

I have bought an ER25 3MT and ER25 2MT, with metric collets. So far, I am not impressed. The Er25 3MT is mounted on my Sieg X2. With the keyed chuck that came with the mill, measure 0.05mm runout. With the ER25 3MT I get in excess of 0.10mm.

I have contacted CTC/Johst Heine, but we have not sorted the matter as of yet. I will post updates in my thread "Sieg X2 Spindle Runout"

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8003.0

Brgds,
Edvard

 

[don-tucker]

When my mill and collet chuck arrive,I think I would be very lucky if the runout is acceptable so I intend machining a few thou from the taper of the chuck,using a tipped tool clamped in the vice and tilting the head over to the correct angle.Providing the Morse tapers on the chuck and spindle are a good fit the drawbar's only job is to pull the two up tight
I don't see why this shouldn't work.
Don

 

[Maryak]

woohoo1

I made it to the shop today and as promised I checked out my new ER16 collets and chuck from CTC Tools.

The run out was slightly less than 0.01mm which makes it 0.00035" - 0.00039"

My methodology was to use a piece of round tool steel in a collet and clock it with a dial indicator. One thing I did find out was that the collet must be snugged up firm in the chuck. Hand tight and I had 0.05mm run out.

This is how a genuine Mitutoyo metric dial indicator looks.

What can I say other than that I am well satisfied with my purchase.

Best Regards
Bob

 

[Twmaster]

Bob that is great news. Thank you for the update and photos.

 

[Deanofid]

Thanks for the report, Bob. Appreciate that!
I've been on the fence about buying from them. Had my eye on a full ER 25 set and MT tang/closer to use for my spindle mounted closer project for the lathe. The whole shebang for $71 including shipping sounded too good. I think I'll pop for it, now.

Dean

 

[Maryak]

I see several are considering to buy the CTC ER chucks and collets.

I have bought an ER25 3MT and ER25 2MT, with metric collets. So far, I am not impressed. The Er25 3MT is mounted on my Sieg X2. With the keyed chuck that came with the mill, measure 0.05mm runout. With the ER25 3MT I get in excess of 0.10mm.

I have contacted CTC/Johst Heine, but we have not sorted the matter as of yet. I will post updates in my thread "Sieg X2 Spindle Runout"

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=8003.0

Brgds,
Edvard

Dean,

This is the only negative comment so far but I thought I would point it out. Maybe Edvard was unlucky. :-\

Best Regards
Bob

 

[Deanofid]

I saw that one, Bob. It seems he has other problems too, and I can't quite follow from his start point. I didn't see where he eliminated the spindle taper alone.

Anyway, I'm getting ready to go for it. The collets alone cost more than that here from Shars, before shipping charges. The same Chinese stuff, wherever you go.

 

[Maryak]

The same Chinese stuff, wherever you go.

Exactly................ especially in Oz.

Best Regards
Bob

 

[arnoldb]

Good going Bob ;D

With my very limited experience of the Chinese ER25 set I have and the chuck I made for my lathe, I have found the same results; less than 0.01mm run-out on most of the collets. I have found 2 collets in my set that has a run-out of just over 0.01 mm though.
If you don't have one, I'd recommend a closer nut with a bearing in it; makes life a lot easier.

I've ordered an ER25 collet chuck set for my new mill; I'll check run-out on that once it arrives, and add some more feedback if anyone's interested.

Kind regards, Arnold

 

[don-tucker]

I like ER collets having used them for years,there is only one snag with them worth considering,they will not grip short pieces ,sorry to start this argument again but I have held a 1/4" length of 3/8" dia bar in the front and the rear end closes till the slots meet.Seems the only way out is to put a small slug of the same material in the back.
Don

 

[Maryak]

Don,

Thanks for the tip. :bow:

Best Regards
Bob