Elmer's #11 Radial

[Gerry Sweetland]

Hello,
This is my second build log. I have built 2 of Elmer's engines to completion, Elmer's #2 and #50 and one other that is almost done, Elmer's #37.
I got kind of bored with the Grasshopper, it is about 95% done, just need to do the little fiddly bits like drilling Ø.062" rod with #70 holes and work out the timing. It was taking me a long time and I started getting frustrated so I put it down for a while. It wasn't long before I wanted to try something else so I built the Twin Wobbler. That went pretty quick and I was surprised how it came out.
For some reason I keep looking at the unfinished Grasshopper and say to myself, "not yet... let's do something else". So I started on the 3 Cylinder Radial.
Let me say at first that I owe the guys here a lot of thanks for and appreciation for there skill. I am amazed that most if not all of you do incredible work and are artist in their own right! I use CNC mill and have yet to even come close to what most of you do with your manual machines or just lathes even. Some how I feel like I'm cheating . I do enjoy taking Elmer's drawings and modeling them in a solid modeling program and figuring out how to set up the model in the CAM software I use and then machine them. The one thing I notice about most of you guy's work is how you really finish off your builds, polishing and painting and adding your own little bits to the original design. So my goal with the twin wobbler was, and this model is, to try and shine things up a bit and maybe do some painting as well as try to be more exact and finished with the final result.
So here goes...
I started working on this model about 2 weeks ago.
Here is what I have so far...

I started with the crankcase. I looked for 1-1/2" hex at my aluminum suppler but they did not have any drops so used a piece of 1-3/4" round. I cut a piece off that was just the right length to fit in my vice and have room to work with down the road. I faced the piece in the lathe after using a DI to make sure it was true. Then center drilled it to help me locate over on the CNC.
Here is a picture after the 1st waterline op. I just skimmed a 1/32" off with the mill.

Here it is after profiling and pocketing.

Then a photo after the spot drill, drill and tapping

Then I took it over to the lathe and parted it off with enough material left to put it back in the mill and proceed to machine the opposite side.

I then placed the crankcase in the mill to machine the holes for the cylinders and spot, drill and tap the holes for the cylinder and steam passage.

So next I started on the cylinders. After looking at some of the other builds of this engine on the forum I really wanted to make them round and put cooling fins on them (a tip of the hat to Stan AKA Sshire, beautiful work). But I also wanted to do something a little different. I wanted to make my cylinders in a rectangle like Elmer's but with a radius on the corners and with cooling fins. But I couldn't figure out to model the fins in my solid modeling software, not around a rectangle any way, I think I know how in a cylinder or square. I'll have to try and figure that out some day. I was gonna use a slitting saw on the mill to cut them. So I just made them as follows...
In the vice ready to machine the first side.

Here is a cylinder done on the first side

I then removed the cylinder and mounted it in my lathe to part off the piece with enough material to machine the opposite side.

I then mounted the cylinder in the vice to machine the other side.

And here is the finished 2nd op.

Here are the finished parts so far. Sorry, I did not take any photos of how I did the base and engine foot

In the next installment I am going to machine the valve housing, crankcase cover and cylinder head.
I'm not sure if anyone would be interested but if you would like me to upload Gcode, drawings, or even SprutCam Project files let me know and I would be glad to do that.
Thanks for reading fellas,
Gerry

 

[aonemarine]

Gerry, I have to ask, How do you like your tormach? would you buy it again or go for the 1100??

 

[vascon2196]

Nice build...this engine is on "my list". I am looking forward to see this through to the end.

I am also interested in the CNC question...it looks like a nice machine.

 

[basement_guy]

I'll follow your progress with interest.
Just started on the same engine. But I do it on a manual lathe and mill and on a slow tempo.

I like your cylinder design.

 

[Inky Engines]

Gerry

Following this one with interest, I'm very tempted to bring this one to the top off my to do list.

Kind regards

Geoff at Inky Engines

 

[romartin]

Bravo Gerry! Very nice work.

 

[Gerry Sweetland]

Gerry, I have to ask, How do you like your tormach? would you buy it again or go for the 1100??

Hi aonemarine,
I am very happy with the 770. I would definitely purchase from Tormach again. They are a very good company to deal with. I quoted and was about to order the 1100 when I purchased my 770 but I knew I would be working on pretty small parts and mostly aluminum and brass so I decided to get the 770 because of it max spindle feed instead and have not looked back. My shop size would just barely hold the footprint that the 1100 takes up too, so that was consideration as well.

I hope to purchase a 4th axis kit this year from Tormach and add that to my machine.
Gerry

 

[aonemarine]

Gerry, so far I have heard nothing but praise for the tormach machines. Im really wanting one and having the same "which size" delima as you. Id also be working on small parts so the spindle speed is a consideration. Guess I could go for the 770 and keep my bridgeport for the bigger stuff...still up in the air about it, need a good swift kick in the rear to finalize it...

 

[Gerry Sweetland]

Thank you for the kind words Chris, basement_guy, Geoff and Ian.

My next step was to machine the crankcase cover and valve housing.

The stock for the crankcase cover in the vice ready to be machined.

The crankcase cover after the first side machining.

I then removed the piece from the mill and mounted it in the lathe to part off the extra material with enough room to face and turn the flange down to size.

The facing complete.

Then re-located in the 3-jaw (should of put in there that way the first time, Doh) to turn the flange.

I did the valve housing pretty much the same way as the crankcase cover.
Here are the two parts ready for some clean up and the vibratory tumbler.

For the cylinder heads I wanted to try something I learned recently in my CAM program (SprutCam 7 or "SC").
You can use SC to define, draw 2D lines and extrude them as a fixture. SC will recognize the geometry as a fixture and will machine around the geometry. So it is very easy to create a fixture with tabs to be either machined off or in my case I used a Dremel tool and file to remove the parts from the fixture and remove the tab remnants.

Here is screen cap of SC showing what I mean hopefully.

This is the brass stock I started with, 2" X .125" X 12"

Spot drill the hole locations.

And then thru drill for Ø.089 holes.

And then the waterline roughing operation.

And here are the finished parts. One out of the SC made fixture and the other two yet to be removed.
The end mill I used looks to be pretty dull on area of the flute length towards the bottom. I need to put a new one in it's place.

Then just a little bit of filing and these parts as well will be ready for the tumbler.
I hope engine turn or jewel the face of these parts.

Next I plan on tackling the pistons, rods and con rod hub. As well as the valve.
Plus play around with engine turning.
Thanks for reading and thanks again fellas for the kind words.
Gerry

 

[Gerry Sweetland]

Gerry, so far I have heard nothing but praise for the tormach machines. Im really wanting one and having the same "which size" delima as you. Id also be working on small parts so the spindle speed is a consideration. Guess I could go for the 770 and keep my bridgeport for the bigger stuff...still up in the air about it, need a good swift kick in the rear to finalize it...

Hi aonemarine,
You probably have heard the advice when looking at machine that you should buy the biggest you can afford. That was where my thinking was at first but after some care full consideration as well as reviewing as much as I could on the web about these machine I then decided to purchase the 770 and use the extra money to get more TTS tooling and what have you.
My employer had a tool room with 4 Bridgeport machine with Southwest Industries controllers and those were nice machines. They also had some big VMC machines too, Haas and a couple others.
You have a very well equipped shop with either a 770 or 1100 with a Bridgeport.

Hope you get your new Tormach soon no matter which one you choose.
Gerry

 

[Gerry Sweetland]

Hello,
Been a couple of weeks since I updated this log.
I tried to make my own engine turning or jeweling tool out of a SS wire brush I found in a package of assorted small wire wheels from HF.
I took the smallest one in the pack and used some O-rings and heat shrink tubing to control the spread when it plunged in to the material.

I am not satisfied with the results. I am going to try trimming the heat shrink back to the first O-ring and then carefully sand the tip to make it flatter on a belt sander. If that doesn't work I may check out buying a tool from Brownells, the cratex sticks and holder?

So next I moved on to the flywheel. I cut off a short section of Ø2" cold rolled and mounted it in the lathe using a mag base and DI to make sure it was parallel to the center line and faced both ends to sit in the mill vice.
After putting it in the vice I realized that I probably only needed to true the one end and let the mill do the other end. I did get some practice though on truing stock up on the lathe.

Here is the flywheel after machining one side.

I removed the part form the mill and cut off the excess stock and mounted back in the mill vice to machine the other side.
I had photos covering the next few steps but I can't find them. Probaly some sub-conscience thing I had going because I totaly blew zeroing out my Z and proceeded to machine the features on this side .031" to deep, Ha!
I even had a photo of the flywheel with the bad side.

Well, I started over and as I had lost some of those photos as well in the asfore mentioned sub-conscience slip... but I did find these in my camera.
Cutting the excess off in the band saw.

After a waterline roughing op to thickness

Then after drilling and tapping for set screw and pin

And the machine finished part. Still need to polish.

So next on the to-do list is the conn rod hub
Again I cut off a small piece of Ø1" stock this time, trued and faced in the lathe and mounted in the mill vice. And look, I even remembered to set zero Z this time

So with a waterline roughing op and a 2D contour around the outside as well as a couple of hole ops to spot and drill the .094" holes I removed the stock from the mill vice and mounted it in the 3-jaw to turn down the center section and part off.

I then mounted the part off piece back in the mill to machine to final size on the parted off end.
Here is the finished hub.

I then moved on to the valve.
Starting with Ø1" brass stock I cut a piece off to mount in te late, true and face then mount in the mill vice.

Machined one side using waterline roughing to clean up saw marks and 2d profiling to make final diameter as well as hole op to spot and drill the Ø.062" holes.

I removed the part from the mill and parted of the valve with enough material to mill down to size and machine the pocket.

Here is the valve after finishing the opposite side.

Next I went on to the conn rods. I had a little bit of trouble with these. I ended up using around 12" of .375" square stock to get these made:wall:
I got the first three done on one side then when trying to clamp them a set of soft jaws I made for the mill vice I was squeezing them too tight and distorting the thru holes. I didn't even notice I was doing this till I clamped the third one in the vice and as I'm turning vice handle it shoots out of the vice and bounces across the room! I look at the part and notice how distorted the finished side is that was being squeezed by the vice. I inspected the other two and notice they are the same, well shoot!
So I learn that I need to machine the first side so that there is plenty of stock left to flip over and get a good bite in the vice. In addition I don't need to be so heavy fisted with the vice handle for such a small part and I usually go with pretty lite DOC's when setting up my operations in SprutCam.
So I sit back and think a little more on it and proceeded as follows...
I first do the hole operations offset from the CL of the stock.

I then flipped the part in the vice as shown below and loaded the next program into Mach 3 and ran the profile.

I then removed the part from the vice, re-set zero Z and loaded the next program. This was just a waterline roughing down to size.

Bye the way, when I run parts that I flip over to finish to size (thickness) I almost always set my zero Z on the parallels at the bottom of the part rather than the top surface as I normally would do.

Here are the machine finished conn rods

I'm getting to point where I only need to make the crankshaft, bearing, some bushings and a few pins. I still need to figure out what the "locating pin" is for as well as a lot of filling, sanding, polishing and tumbling.
Thanks for reading through my mistakes and blunders
Gerry

 

[JDLaCoss]

Looks good. Curious on the cold roll....The finished parts appear almost brass colored. Is that just the lighting, or are you putting some sort of protective finish on when you are done?

 

[vascon2196]

Looking really good! Great job.

 

[Gerry Sweetland]

Looks good. Curious on the cold roll....The finished parts appear almost brass colored. Is that just the lighting, or are you putting some sort of protective finish on when you are done?

Thanks JD,
it must be the lighting. I was wearing a Carhartt long sleeve T-shirt that is that Carhartt gold color. I think that as I was bending over the bench to get the close up on some of the steel parts it was maybe reflecting the shirt onto the part?
Gerry

 

[Gerry Sweetland]

Looking really good! Great job.

Thanks Chris,
Gerry

 

[WCPenney]

Great build! I have had my eye on Elmers #11 for some time now and these build threads are a great inspiration.

I've used a few of the small wire wheels from HF and they seem to shred and fly apart much easier than the Dremel ones I had. The Dremel ones weren't great either, but lasted at least twice as long. You might try turning a tool that looks like a poppet valve and sticking a small disk of 400 or 600 grit wet/dry on the end with some contact cement. A drop of oil can be used to soften the effect.

 

[Gerry Sweetland]

Great build! I have had my eye on Elmers #11 for some time now and these build threads are a great inspiration.

I've used a few of the small wire wheels from HF and they seem to shred and fly apart much easier than the Dremel ones I had. The Dremel ones weren't great either, but lasted at least twice as long. You might try turning a tool that looks like a poppet valve and sticking a small disk of 400 or 600 grit wet/dry on the end with some contact cement. A drop of oil can be used to soften the effect.

Thanks WCPenny,
Thanks as well for the tip on a different way to make the tool. I'll give it a try tomorrow.
Gerry

 

[Gerry Sweetland]

Hello again, time for me to update this build thread.
I'll start with the jeweling re-do. I took the advice that WCPenney mentioned and made a abrasive tool from some Ø3/16" steel rod and super glued some 240 grit sandpaper "dot" on one end.
Here is a before and after photos

Thanks WCPenney, that worked great.

I then started on the valve crank. I mounted a piece of Ø1" cold rolled in the mill vice and machined one side.

I then removed the part from the vice and chucked it into the 3 jaw and parted the part off, placed it back in the mill vice and referencing Z0 off the top of the parallels and machined it to finished thickness.

Next I worked on crankshaft. I made this pretty much the same way as the valve crank.

I then cut a piece of Ø.25" rod to length and used the head stock and tail stock as a fixture to solder them together.

I then added the Ø.125" pin to the other side and soldered that in as well.

I then got to work on the bearing column. I cut a piece of .375" X 1.25" aluminum to a length that I could mount in the mill vice having one end to reference to the right edge of the vice jaw and have enough sticking out the left end of the vice to freely machine around the stock.

Here is the first set of operations to profile and pocket the part and chamfer this side. I then removed the stock from the vice and referencing again off the right side vice jaw and chamfer the other side.

I then used the clamp set and 123 blocks to hold the part while I machined it to length.

Then I proceeded to work on the pistons. The cylinders were some of the first parts I made when I started this and I figured I could turn the pistons to their final diameter on the lathe. I discovered a problem with my lathe though. Just turning the short length required for these pistons I found that the pistons were coming out tapered just ever so slightly. .001 to .0025 across just 5/8". I have to admit I don't know how to run a lathe and where to start figuring out why it is doing this. I did a little Googling and found some avenues to check but then I decide to just go ahead and machine them on the CNC. I'll tweak the lathe later.
So here is how I proceeded. I cut some brass Ø1" bar stock to stand up in the mill vice.

I then parted the piston off in the lathe with a little extra to flip and face to size as well as add the oil grooves.

I then made a program to spot and thru drill the Ø.094" wrist pin holes.

Here are the three pistons with one having the piston rod installed temporarily to see how they fit

Next I wanted to work on the conn rod hub and conn rod soldering step.
I drew up a fixture and machined it out of a piece of scrap aluminum. I wanted to make sure the rod that is soldered in was inline with the center line of the hub as I brazed it.

I then cut and installed the rest of the con rod pins. I wanted to make sure the other two conn rods had plenty of free movement. It was a this point I realized that all this including the piston would have to be assembled with the whole thing inside the case. Wish me luck

I then proceeded to cut the 2-56 brass threaded rod I am using for the cylinder/ head studs. I screwed the studs into the crank case after cutting them a little bit long.

I then slipped the cylinders down onto the crankcase, installed the head and using brass nuts I firmly tightened them down.

I then used my Dremal tool to grind off the excess.

Here is a photo of some of the assembly, I needed to do this to give me some encouragement to continue

Well, just a few more details to finish, such as cut the steel wrist pins, make the vent, drill and tap the steam intake and exhaust and make those components as well. In addition a few other little things, I want to get it running then dismantle it and polish and paint assorted pieces. I hope I can figure out the final assembly goes. I have read Sshire's build log and the numerous advice he got trying to figure out how to get these neat little engines running... Thanks to him and all the you other fellas for inspiration to build my version.
Thanks for reading and I'll be back soon hopefully to it finished.
Gerry

 

[vascon2196]

Great work...looks like you have some great machinery and workspace. I'm looking forward to seeing this little guy run.

 

[GaryK]

Looking great!

I have a question though. When you are machining you parts the material looks like steel, but when you show the final part they look like brass.

What is the finish you are using on your parts?

Gary