Electric car plant

[Jules]

My 40yr old Homelite 50cc two stroker chain saw still going strong. My 25 yr old 4hp tecumseh mower never misses a beat. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
All this electrical conversion because of "climate change"
I find (in my opinion) the idea of "man made" climate change a little more than misleading, especially when the earth has done more harm to itself over time than we ever have.

Everyone can have an opinion but I find it hard to believe any intelligent human, finds it hard to believe that burning millions of tons of fossil fuels, wouldn’t warm up the planet.
Most of the energy from the gas you put into your engines, is turned into heat.
The rise in temperature since the industrial revolution is far faster than normal climatic change.
This heat would normally escape but the CO2 prevents it.

 

[Robsmith]

Everyone can have an opinion but I find it hard to believe any intelligent human, finds it hard to believe that burning millions of tons of fossil fuels, wouldn’t warm up the planet.
Most of the energy from the gas you put into your engines, is turned into heat.
The rise in temperature since the industrial revolution is far faster than normal climatic change.
This heat would normally escape but the CO2 prevents it.

What about Volcanoes. There's heaps of them going off around the world at the moment. Nobody counts them into the big picture.

 

[terryd]

Just saw images of exploding stars in our galaxy where the smoke and dust is thousands of light years across.
A little old 2 stroke outputs contribution is well down on any above effect.

Hi bluejets.

Those exploding stars, even while in our galaxy are still billions upon billions of kilometres (one lightyear is about 5.8 trillion miles - 9.46 trillion km and our nearest star, Alph Centauri is 4 light years distant) away from our atmosphere whereas greenhouse gases and dust from our and natural activity is 50 -60 km above your head. Imagine a town 50km (30+ miles) away and that is how close the greenhouse layer is to you.

A Swedish scientist - Svante Arrhenius - forecast greenhouse gas heating in 1896 saying that the effects off CO2 being poured into the atmosphere by industry would make the world uninhabitable for humans in 10,000 years, but since then those gases have increased and the amount of CO2 added in 2020 was over 320 billion tonnes, yes billions, and increasing, and there are other greenhouse gases worse that CO2 which are also increasing due to our activities so yes, your, and hundreds of millions of other 'little old two strokes' worldwide are indeed adding to the problem. Below is an extrac from teh 1902 Selma Times:

And again from a 1912 US journal:

Terry D

 

[terryd]

What about Volcanoes. There's heaps of them going off around the world at the moment. Nobody counts them into the big picture.

Vulcanologists and scientists have ideed been studying this effect for many years and the conclusion accross teh scientific community is that they have a negligible effect on global worming. In fact the sulpuur the emit acutally ha a cooling effect. To Quote:

"Carbon dioxide (CO2) has built up in the atmosphere over the last 200 years from human activities, not from volcanoes. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), “the emissions of CO2 from volcanic eruptions are at least 100 times smaller than anthropogenic [human-caused] emissions, and inconsequential for climate on century time scales."

And:

"Another way to look at this is to consider how often a large volcanic eruption would need to occur in order to match human emissions. Consider, for example, the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in 1991, which was one of the three largest volcanic eruptions of the 20th century. Scientists estimate that Pinatubo’s eruption released about 50 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere in 9 hours. To match human emissions over a year, the planet would have to experience a volcanic eruption like Mt. Pinatubo’s every 12.5 hours!"

Furthermore volcan activity has been around since the earth began and is settling down slowly.and here is a chart of CO2 levels:

Sure there were ups and downs, but not to the scale of the last couple of hundred years.

Al refereced from here - Are Volcanoes Causing Global Warming?


Needs action

TDx

 

[Rocket Man]

I put a fork lift electric motor on a go-kart once push the switch is was instant full power, it would spin the tires until it picked up speed to 30 mph. Going down the street at 30 mph it was very quiet sounding. It only had 2 speeds, zero and 30. LOL. It was FUN.

 

[Bentwings]

I am very split on this matter, I have had a hybrid car (Lexus RX450h) for the past 8 years, it is now 11 years old and still performs well. The last service indicated that the batteries are still achieving 98% charge retention.
Last week I went shopping for a new car for my wife to replace her 16-year-old Mercedes SLK 200, an excellent car that returns over 40 miles to the gallon. A small hybrid SUV at a reasonable trim standard costs over £40,000 and this brings into play the government's latest revenue earner the increased car tax for 5 years after purchase. Although the road tax may be £0 because of the additional tax it then becomes £330, this really doesn't encourage electric/hybrid ownership. On the matter of all-electric cars, I am concerned about the range of these vehicles and what happens when a 5-hour jam occurs on the M25 on a boiling hot day and the users have their a/c on (or heater in cold weather)? How do they recover scores of vehicles with flat batteries or even worse people with medical conditions?

On the subject of Lithium, I thought I would have a punt on some Lithium mine shares, these were for a Canadian company mining in Arizona so I bought some, they did well for a while until Obama took the reins in the USA and condemned the mining of Lithium, the shares fell overnight so once again the public end up with the bill.

Incidentally, the solar panels on my UK home work well and are as advertised, but they are only economical because I get the larger FIT that was prevalent 10 years ago. I don't think they are as good now unless the system has a rechargeable battery bank (Costs £5000 +)

What are other members' thoughts on this subject?

I’m not a green new deal person at all science does not agree. Look at yhe 535AD eruptions. They were the biggest climate things since dinosaurs. The earth has healed itself from this completely we are doing little or nothing to affect climate the latest gear waves are created by solar storms predicted years ago All the electric car thing does is create local
Messes recycling mining with child labor and other local things Dinosaurs gave us a gift let’s use it . If clean is the word neuclear energy is thevonlyvwavyongo . As for taxes our idiotic politicians can be thanked for that we have one very powerful weapon for that……. Our votes get then the h….. out of office permanently.

 

[Bentwings]

Vulcanologists and scientists have ideed been studying this effect for many years and the conclusion accross teh scientific community is that they have a negligible effect on global worming. In fact the sulpuur the emit acutally ha a cooling effect. To Quote:
Nice reply why can’t our stupid politicians see this . They are supposed to be highly educated . They must have skipped physics and math .

I have a 40 yr old classic car that gets 30 mpg starts every day heat and Sv on demand never more than 10 minutes at the gas pump license is 50$ Insurance is 300$ per year for agreed value not pro rated rated. If it’s totaled I get the agreed value something on the order of twice what I paid for it goes up every year . An appreciating asset.
"Carbon dioxide (CO2) has built up in the atmosphere over the last 200 years from human activities, not from volcanoes. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), “the emissions of CO2 from volcanic eruptions are at least 100 times smaller than anthropogenic [human-caused] emissions, and inconsequential for climate on century time scales."

And:

"Another way to look at this is to consider how often a large volcanic eruption would need to occur in order to match human emissions. Consider, for example, the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo in 1991, which was one of the three largest volcanic eruptions of the 20th century. Scientists estimate that Pinatubo’s eruption released about 50 million tons of CO2 into the atmosphere in 9 hours. To match human emissions over a year, the planet would have to experience a volcanic eruption like Mt. Pinatubo’s every 12.5 hours!"

Furthermore volcan activity has been around since the earth began and is settling down slowly.and here is a chart of CO2 levels:

View attachment 138725

Sure there were ups and downs, but not to the scale of the last couple of hundred years.

Al refereced from here - Are Volcanoes Causing Global Warming?


Needs action

TDx

I’m not a green new deal person at all science does not agree. Look at yhe 535AD eruptions. They were the biggest climate things since dinosaurs. The earth has healed itself from this completely we are doing little or nothing to affect climate the latest gear waves are created by solar storms predicted years ago All the electric car thing does is create local
Messes recycling mining with child labor and other local things Dinosaurs gave us a gift let’s use it . If clean is the word neuclear energy is thevonlyvwavyongo . As for taxes our idiotic politicians can be thanked for that we have one very powerful weapon for that……. Our votes get then the h….. out of office permanently.

 

[Shopgeezer]

I was a long time climate skeptic and trotted out all the arguments about volcanoes and solar cycles and all the other arguments about nature causing the warming we see. And it does. It’s just that human effects are being piled up on top of that. CO2 is a natural product and cycles in relative balance in the atmosphere. The problem is that we are digging up coal and oil and gas and pouring thousands of tons of fossilized carbon into the atmosphere that overwhelms the natural cycle. The amount of carbon we are releasing is scary. What is really frightening is the amount we are going to release. India is building hundreds of new coal plants and has no plans to reduce carbon emissions. Same with China. Despite the Paris agreements the world output of human sourced carbon is increasing at an astounding rate. Even a dyed in the wool old skeptic like me has to admit that this is not going to end well.

 

[Richard Hed]

I’m not a green new deal person at all science does not agree. Look at yhe 535AD eruptions. They were the biggest climate things since dinosaurs. The earth has healed itself from this completely we are doing little or nothing to affect climate the latest gear waves are created by solar storms predicted years ago All the electric car thing does is create local
Messes recycling mining with child labor and other local things Dinosaurs gave us a gift let’s use it . If clean is the word neuclear energy is thevonlyvwavyongo . As for taxes our idiotic politicians can be thanked for that we have one very powerful weapon for that……. Our votes get then the h….. out of office permanently.

NO, no, no. The way to go is to use GEO! Geo is cheap and powerful. the reason so many people thimpfk "nuke" is because the poweers that be want nukes simply for the reason that they cost LOTS MORE to build. they are over price by aobut 100 times. I Know, I live in the soviet of Washington where the nuke industry cheated, lied, cheated, defrauded and cheated more on they building cost. Wshen the nukes were priced 40 years ago at 5 billionUS$, they ran the price up to 15B by having the men slow down the work, buying supplies from the highest bidders, hiring more men but making sure no more work was done--yhou thimpfk this is a jhoke? You want to know why they did this, of course. They did this because the contracts are all cost + 15%! They also pay their people far more than normal for the same kind of work that is NOT in the nuke industry.

Geo is cheap to build, stable, and not in the least dangerous. The liars will explain to you many reasons why it is not feasible, however, never forget "cost plus".

 

[Bentwings]

I was a long time climate skeptic and trotted out all the arguments about volcanoes and solar cycles and all the other arguments about nature causing the warming we see. And it does. It’s just that human effects are being piled up on top of that. CO2 is a natural product and cycles in relative balance in the atmosphere. The problem is that we are digging up coal and oil and gas and pouring thousands of tons of fossilized carbon into the atmosphere that overwhelms the natural cycle. The amount of carbon we are releasing is scary. What is really frightening is the amount we are going to release. India is building hundreds of new coal plants and has no plans to reduce carbon emissions. Same with China. Despite the Paris agreements the world output of human sourced carbon is increasing at an astounding rate. Even a dyed in the wool old skeptic like me has to admit that this is not going to end well.

Yes, it's not all glory glory when it comes to battery power.
One rarely hears the downside or in fact, the dust to dust effect of all the lithium waste that will appear in time to come.
We do get a good run out of 4 and 5Ah Dewalt originals in out power tools except for the vacuum cleaner.
It sucks the guts out of each of the above in no time flat.

Your friends chain saw may well be a cheapo and most battery powered gear uses a combination of 18650 cells in varying capacities.
There are stories all over about junk 18650 cells both in their internal makeup and in their highly overrated capacities.
As for a chainsaw, I'll have a good old 2 stroke smoke spewing engine anyday.

Just saw images of exploding stars in our galaxy where the smoke and dust is thousands of light years across.
A little old 2 stroke outputs contribution is well down on any above effect.

Nice ost at lest a few are thinking of what is really going on. Yes E vehicles are very expensive
Untill Biden and his entire staff getvelictrified then biden has a huge home in delegate yet ionot one solar panel or wind mill. Since he is so green how come he doesn’t have an electric limo and his security cars the mighty suburban s need to be electrified then we can talk but only with science atvtge table This latest climate disaster is not that at all science predicted this years ago that there would be big solar storms that would affect us . All he wants us to keep us poor while they print more money and fuel the high cost of living if he wants green he has to show he cares , show some green grass he takes care of he is like some idiot that just lets his dog run pooping in other peoples yards . Looking at his great record over 50 years of politics , not one thing he has been involved with has been successful . It’s been on Fox News numerous times. Other news forget about them . The administration forgets that electric energy has to come from somewhere …. Yep power plants , guess what fuel they burn fossil fuels natural gas oil and coal. China is just starting about 150 new coal plants using Mongolia coal , some of the dirtiest coal on the planet that will negate everything done in this country . Our money wasted .
Here is a good one the grocery store I go to put in 20 EV charging stations . Guess what. They all have heavy bags over them with a sign NOT IN SERVICE. My sons wife works at another grocery store they have charging stations . She said it costs over 10 times the local cost per KWHOUR to use them . Few get used.


So when operating your EV you need to look at cost per mile not mpg as normal you can or should do this anyway . My big one ton diesel dualy

Has 450 K on it over the time I drove it it was the least cost per mile including the purchase loan of any car or truck I ever had going back to 1960. At one point I had a spread sheet of costs for each car I ever had so I could look at bottom line where I was at in personal transportation costs . I’ve seen a couple pictures of EV with portable gas generators in either back seat or trunk. That shows what people think about these things.


We were talking about job market at car breakfast one day way back when I was starting engineering school coming from the machine shop I saw the cnc machine as the future and automation as the new engineering direction I followed this through the first electronic drafting then 3D modeling and into paperless manufacturing . I did lots of automation too . Now the job market is in for a second revolution. More automation robotic assembly . So who is goingvto design this and main twin this . Forward thinking education will help kids learn this stuff it’s not just guys women can design and work in the shop really old timers remember Rosie the riveter. So just yesterday I heard on news that the job market was in for big changes as we go through the rediculous recession jobs are disappearing already as companies cut back. The jobs created vs jobs lost number is going to really change .

 

[Shopgeezer]

NO, no, no. The way to go is to use GEO! Geo is cheap and powerful. the reason so many people thimpfk "nuke" is because the poweers that be want nukes simply for the reason that they cost LOTS MORE to build. they are over price by aobut 100 times. I Know, I live in the soviet of Washington where the nuke industry cheated, lied, cheated, defrauded and cheated more on they building cost. Wshen the nukes were priced 40 years ago at 5 billionUS$, they ran the price up to 15B by having the men slow down the work, buying supplies from the highest bidders, hiring more men but making sure no more work was done--yhou thimpfk this is a jhoke? You want to know why they did this, of course. They did this because the contracts are all cost + 15%! They also pay their people far more than normal for the same kind of work that is NOT in the nuke industry.

Geo is cheap to build, stable, and not in the least dangerous. The liars will explain to you many reasons why it is not feasible, however, never forget "cost plus".

Well that isn't quite true. Have a look at this:

 

[L98fiero]

I was a long time climate skeptic and trotted out all the arguments about volcanoes and solar cycles and all the other arguments about nature causing the warming we see. And it does. It’s just that human effects are being piled up on top of that. CO2 is a natural product and cycles in relative balance in the atmosphere. The problem is that we are digging up coal and oil and gas and pouring thousands of tons of fossilized carbon into the atmosphere that overwhelms the natural cycle. The amount of carbon we are releasing is scary. What is really frightening is the amount we are going to release. India is building hundreds of new coal plants and has no plans to reduce carbon emissions. Same with China. Despite the Paris agreements the world output of human sourced carbon is increasing at an astounding rate. Even a dyed in the wool old skeptic like me has to admit that this is not going to end well.

An additional problem is we are also getting into positive feedback loops with arctic permafrost warming that releases huge amounts of methane which is multiples worse than CO2

 

[swarf]

Everyone can have an opinion but I find it hard to believe any intelligent human, finds it hard to believe that burning millions of tons of fossil fuels, wouldn’t warm up the planet.
Most of the energy from the gas you put into your engines, is turned into heat.
The rise in temperature since the industrial revolution is far faster than normal climatic change.
This heat would normally escape but the CO2 prevents i

I put a fork lift electric motor on a go-kart once push the switch is was instant full power, it would spin the tires until it picked up speed to 30 mph. Going down the street at 30 mph it was very quiet sounding. It only had 2 speeds, zero and 30. LOL. It was FUN.

 

[swarf]

I put a fork lift electric motor on a go-kart once push the switch is was instant full power, it would spin the tires until it picked up speed to 30 mph. Going down the street at 30 mph it was very quiet sounding. It only had 2 speeds, zero and 30. LOL. It was FUN.

 

[Steamchick]

Safe places for Nuclear power are 1 - The sun, 2 - the core of the Earth. Everywhere else has to be risk managed by the "Mankind" that devised the thing.
OZONE layer depletion is real. CO2 warming is real, and CFCs Methane pollution, (including people and cattle emissions) also real and measurable. So if we were a non-fossil fuel burning species that numbered 1 billion instead of 8 billion, we would be OK. But to sustain 8 billion souls takes the technology we have developed... or we stop it now and kill 7 of 8 people. (starting with everyone over 40? - to go back to pre-industrial norms?). It is a global problem.... not something we can resolve in an Engineering and Machining forum?
K2

 

[awake]

Clearly there are sharply different opinions on this topic. Those opinions tend to bleed over into political discussions. I think the latter is not allowed by the forum rules - ? If so, may I respectfully request that this thread be closed?

 

[Steamchick]

I agree Andy.
K2

 

[user 48634]

Amen!

 

[ajoeiam]

Maybe the ancillary branches could be shut off - - - I had asked about connecting to some more local recycled battery (large automotive size) location but haven't seen any information on such - - - - or is that question also 'political'?

 

[terryd]

Clearly there are sharply different opinions on this topic. Those opinions tend to bleed over into political discussions. I think the latter is not allowed by the forum rules - ? If so, may I respectfully request that this thread be closed?

Hi,

I don't necessarily think that an interesting thread should be closed, however I do agree about the politics. Rather than close the thread perhaps the moderators could delete some of the more overtly political diatribe if they have the ability so to do, if not I agree with you about closure more's the pity.

TerryD