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If you are going to master the program, you must use it at least 10 minutes a day.
The commands soon become second nature, and you no longer have to think through every step. If you practice once a week, you will not get it.

For me learning to machine (I started seriously trying to learn to machine after finding the HMEM site about a year ago) is just like learning to draw in CAD. First you have to learn what tools you have, then you have to learn how each tool is used. Then you make a lot of mistakes and butcher your first few items. Only then can you start to get a feel for it and start to make some decent stuff.

I can absolutely relate to the frustrations of trying to learn something new like this. It takes time and persistance to get it.

 
This is great stuff Pat, as one old dinosaur tryin' to drag 'imself, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century, I'm finding it really useful.
 
Pat J said:
(Don't you wish there was an UNDO command when you are machining and you cut a part too small?)

It's called a welder ;D

John S.
 


Pat I'm enjoying this thread very much. I've struggled with cad in the past so this should help a lot.

Thank you for the time and effort you are putting into it.


Ron
 
Pat

Thanks! Keep it coming, Please Thm:

Joe
 
Pat, thanks for your efforts with this. It's well written and offers insights that vendor tutorials don't typically include. It's very helpful.

Chuck
 
Anyone having trouble getting DraftSight to work? I have downloaded it twice, installed, uninstalled, reinstalled, rebooted, and it still crashes right after opening. Running on Vista. It sends an error message to Dassault each time. No information is presented to determine what is causing the problem.

Chuck in E. TN
 
1. I do not use TABBED drawings, but just put all the drawings on one tab. I use tabs extensively in spreadsheets, but CAD is not spreadsheets, and just because tabs are a good idea in spreadsheets does not mean you have to use them in everything.

2. The titleblock for my original AutoCAD drawing is XREF'ed into may main drawing (XREF is external reference, ie: the titleblock is a separate drawing that shows up behind my main drawing, but is not actually part of my main drawing). The graphic scale is drawn on the titleblock. For the attached file, I inserted the titleblock into the drawing in order to make one single drawing that I can post here, but normally I would not insert the titleblock into the drawing.
When using external references, you can change something on the master XREF drawing and it automatically changes in every other drawing that references it.

3. I preface each XREF file with "XR...", ie XR-BERNAY-TITLEBLOCK.DWG. You need to be able to immediately identify which drawings are base drawings and which drawings are XREF's (Draftsight probably uses a different term than XREF.)

4. If you select any of the text in the drawing that also has a leader, you will see a grip on one side near the leader (be sure to select the text only, not the leader).
If you select the center grip on the text and drag it, the text will move and the leader will redraw itself to the new text location automatically when you stop moving the text (called an associative leader). This feature saves much time.

5. Typically, the things that are placed on the titleblock XREF sheet are things that do not change, or things you want to change on every sheet such as the Rev. date in this case. The things that change with each drawing such as the sheet number and the sheet title are actually contained in the base drawing, not in the XREF, so that I can individually modify these items for each sheet.

6. The purple line located near the top of the titleblock is in the layer "DEFPOINTS", and I use it just as a guideline since I normally punch holes in my printed sheets and place them in a 3-ring binder. You can place anything on the DEFPOINTS layer and use it for reference only, since the DEFPOINTS layer never plots. If you accidentally unintentionally place an item on the DEFPOINTS layer, you will be highly confused since you see it on your drawing, but when you plot your drawing, the item vanishes mysteriously.

7. I try and use somewhat consistent color schemes, ie: all the tap information notes are in red. Brass items are typically drawn in a brass color. Dimensions are a light blue to stand out from any other item. Base metal is generally drawn in green since it seems to stand out well on the screen. Be as consistent as possible in your color scheme. For this drawing I have totally ignored all layers except DEFPOINTS. All objects are "color-by-entity", as opposed to objects that can be "color-by-layer". When you set up your objects as "color-by-layer", you can change the color of the layer, and all of the objects on that layer change color at the same time. For very complex drawings at work, I use color-by-layer for all objects, and toggle layers on and off to be able to sort out everything. I don't think that level of complexity is necessary for an engine drawing, but if you like complexity, go for it.

8. The hatching is associative, ie: if I stretch the boundaries of a hatched object, the hatching flows with the resized object.

9. Typically I use 3-views, front, top and side. If necessary, I sometimes use a bottom, top, left and right side.

10. The isometric drawings are just 2D items. You can draw them easily if they are not too complex just by making two copies of an object, and then drawing lines between the two objects at a 45 degree angle, and then trimming out the lines that would be hidden from view. I can generally draw a simple isometric drawing faster than I can open and begin a drawing in a 3D program, and the isometrics I draw are part of the 2D drawing and can be modified in 2D, which is not the case in a 3D drawing.

11. Almost everything in this drawing was drawn by establishing an X and Y base line and then offsetting a given defined distance, and trimming. Holes are mirrored or arrayed into exact places. (Note: The isometric drawings are not exact, but just used for illustrative purposes.) The total commands used to create this entire sheet are generally LINE, CIRCLE, ELLIPSE, ARC, COPY, MOVE, ROTATE, TRIM, ARRAY (name differs in DraftSight), MIRROR, DIMENSION, TEXT, TEXT with leader. (Not many commands were used.)

12. Most lines are simple lines, no polylines or other things that can be tricky and problematic. I use an occasional SPLINE on a shape with a compound curve. I draw one side of the object with the SPLINE, and then mirror the spline, since you will never draw two splines exactly the same.

13. General text is ROMANS. Titles are ARIAL.

14. I use the graphis scale because if you do not plot the drawing at a 1:1 scale, then the drawing will be the wrong size. You should be able to lay a ruler (a scale in the drafting world) on top of your printout, and the inch marks should match the ruler exactly.

15. The light gray tick marks at the lower left of each sheet are guides for inserting additional copies of the titleblock XREF sheet.

16. I have started a few standards at the top of the sheet. I try all all times to draw to standard stock material and fastener sizes.

17. I did not use a CAD chart for this drawing since all text is 3/32" tall. I did have to size the arrowhead for the first text with leader that I drew.

18. All sheets plot at 1:1 on a 8.5" x 11" standard sheet.

19. You can also assign pen widths to colors, and save the pen information to what is called a pen table. I use pen tables for work drawings, but use all PEN2 for engine drawings just to keep it simple, and to allow me to use colors for other then pen information.
I do not use line widths to maintain simplicity, but feel free to assign line widths if you think you can control them.

20. I typically draw the front view first, then project lines up for the top view, and right for the side view. By projecting lines from the exact endpoint of the front view, you get the exact dimensions on the top and side views. Always keep the side and top views exactly lined up with the front view.

21. You can copy and recycles items in the drawing such as copying the steam chest to make the steam chest gasket, and copying the hole pattern for the top cylinder head to make the bottom cylinder head bolt pattern. You can copy the top cylinder head and modify it for the bottom cylinder head.
By copying things that have to fit together, you guarantee that the hole pattern is exactly the same for both objects.
I only created one text with leader. All other text with leader are a copy of the first one, with the color of the text and leader being changed as required.

22. Reference the cylinder on sheet B-3D. As I recall, I only drew the left half of the cylinder, and then mirrored it to the other side.
Never draw both sides of a complex piece since with each step you add to the drawing, you have the potential to introduce errors.

23. I used the MIRROR command extensively when creating this drawing since there is a great deal of symmetry in the Bernay.
I use symmetry to great advantage when drawing engines.

24. Something that I started doing this year is copying the parts over to one side off the drawing sheets, and making blocks of each assembly.
I then assemble the blocks into a somewhat complete engine at the bottom of the page, for top, front and side views.
I have caught a number of errors this way with parts that have to align in an exact way, which is most parts.
There are some tricks to the assembly method, and I will detail those later.
Notice that if you select things in the assembly drawings, most items are blocks, and blocks can be moved as a single entity.

25. Dimensions are associative, ie: if I resize an object, the dimension updates automatically to the new size. If I move the endpoint of a dimension to a new place, the dimension automatically changes to reflect the new endpoint position.

26. I used the ARRAY function in AutoCad to make all the hex bolt heads. For Draftsight, just use the POLYGON command and input 6 sides.

 
Well, got it to stop crashing by disabling the video adaptor. Now, it stays open, but cusor is really jerky on the drawing window, but moves smoothly around the menu areas. I will try checking for uppdated driver software for the graphics chipset.
I, also learned Drafting with pencil and paper 40+ years ago. Got to use a drafting machine on my first couple of jobs. Then life interupted and I spent 22 years in the military. Now a hobby machinist and working as a computer tech, I want to merge work and play by learning CAD.
Thanks, Pat for taking the time to write up this tutorial. I've tried Alibre, AutoCad 2000, and 2007(available through the school I work for) but had given up as there is not much "Drafting for Dummies" info available.
As soon as I get my display issues worked out, I will go through this tutorial setep by step.

Chuck in E. TN
 
Has anyone else that uses a MAC attempted to install the DraftSight platform on their machine? I have several times and the response I get back is that it will not run on this machine but I have no idea what the required machine specifications needed are. Does this program need Tiger to function?

BC1
Jim
 
bearcar1 said:
Has anyone else that uses a MAC attempted to install the DraftSight platform on their machine? I have several times and the response I get back is that it will not run on this machine but I have no idea what the required machine specifications needed are. Does this program need Tiger to function?

BC1
Jim

I have Mac Book Pro and just downloaded it. It seems to be working ok but I haven't really tried it out. I am more of a 3D guy. The machine is running OSX10.6

Steve C.
 
Aha! Thanks Wal', I am on a Powerbook G4 only running v10.4.11. Sounds like I had best get the next version and have another go. Of course a new laptop is NOT in the near future so if it doesn't work I'll just have to schlep through with a pencil and paper some more. :( :-[ :'(

BC1
Jim
 
Hello Pat,

Nice job on the DraftSight tutorial.

You've made me curious with your comment about your drafting class and how the Korean fellow pointed you in a different direction than what was being taught in the class. Briefly what was the big difference? Thanks.

I have memories from the drafting classes I took years ago. some still bring a smile, but others don't.

Regards,

Chuck
 
Hey Chuck-

That class has been a long time ago (about 1978 maybe?) or a little later.

As I recall, the Korean guy told me the following:

1. Use a thick high-grade vellum, not the cheap thin stuff.
2. Start with a base line, and draw it in with a heavy wide pencil, and grind it into the paper by going over and over it many times.
3. Always make your lines darker than they need to be, since when you clean the drawing with the cleaning powder, all the lines get lighter.
4. Go over the line several or in some cases many times when you draw it. Never draw a line with a single stroke as the books tell you to do. A single stroke line gets washed out when you clean the drawing.
5. Rotate your pencil as you drew to keep the line width consistent, otherwise the line would start out thin, and end up wide, since the lead would wear off as you drew.
6. Don't use cheap pencil lead.
7. He showed me his angles that had the recessed edge which allowed you to do ink work without having to worry about the ink getting drawn under the edge of the angle.
8. He also had a nice flexible curve drawing device that was much easier to use than the old curve templates.
9. Seems like he had some nice ink pens too.

Those were the things that stand out in my memory. Simple stuff really, but not what the books recommended.

The other thing that I did was to draw on the bottom of the parallel bar, not the top as the book recommended. Drawing on the top of the parallel bar puts your wrist in a bind since you have to reach over the bar and then down to the paper, and it is awkward to control the pen or pencil if you cannot control your wrist. I always drew with my wrist planted on a scrap piece of vellum (to prevent smudging) below the parallel bar, and this allowed me to control the pencil pressure and the angle of the pencil, and allowed me to see where the pencil point was at all times. The line you draw depends on where exactly the pencil lead touches the parallel bar, and how you control the angle of the pencil once you touch the bar.

I think I remember him talking about being systematic with the way you draw, and doing one view at a time completely and correctly, working from bottom to top.

It was basic stuff, but it did not occur to me at age 18 to do any of the above until he pointed this things out, and they made a big difference in my drawings.

The heavy vellum allowed you to draw very dark lines without cutting through the paper. The thin vellem had a bad habit of puncturing and tearing too easily.

I still recall my German instructor (Bruno) who had to have been an ex field marshall or something. He was as straight laced as they come. His favorite expression was regarding guidelines and using a "seeeks aaaaach shaaaappp" (six H sharp) pencil (in his heavy German accent). He would march around the room inspecting everyone's pencils and lead, and heaven help the poor sucker that did not have his 6H sharp clearly marked in a separate lead holder from his 2H, or the guy who did not have all of his pencils and templates arranged neatly to one side, complete with the cleaning pad.



 
Sounds like the instructor thought the process was more important than the product.

When i was pencil drafting I used HB almost exclusively. Hard enough to hold a point, soft enough to leave a good line. Learned all about the various line widths in drawing class, on the job all they really wanted was a blueprint so they could make a part and get another machine out the door. If you could get a good print off teh drawing, then the drawi8ng was good. And then the drawing was stuffed in some drawer and the blueprint was trash...
 
I needed to learn the process as much as I needed to learn how to draw.
I was very disorganized, and did not have a methodical approach at all, so from that standpoint the instructor was good.

It was like one of those sayings "I really appreciate your instructing attitude, but not nearly as much as I resent it".

I never liked the iron fist guys, but he was ok.

Some of the most impressive drawings I have seen were created by Roebling for the Brooklyn Bridge. There was an article about a guy who in recent years was working in a wood shop in New York, and came across the original drawings by Roebling for the Brooklyn Bridge. They were old and stained, but he appreciated the quality and significance of them. His boss told him to toss all the old drawings, but he kept them until a museum could display them.

Many were in color, and they are works of art.

Here is a link to a site I found. I don't know how to access the drawings.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/collections/collections_brooklynbridge.shtml

The article was by David McCullough, "The Treasure from the Carpentry Shop: The Extraordinary Drawings of the Brooklyn Bridge," American Heritage 31 (December 1979): 19-29.

I found the American Heritage site, but can't get the article to come up.




AmericanHeritage-Bridge-Article.jpg
 
Hi Pat
just reading through your posts brought the memories flooding back. in the 50's The conventional draughting teachings at technical school for G.C.E and then into the world of the drawing office training school under the the eagle eye of a 75 year old Mr Black (who I suspect must have taught your Korean gentleman) He advocated indeed insisted on most of the techniques you mention and yet on moving on to the drawing office proper we were promptly told to forget all we had been taught as he (Mr Black) was regarded as somewhat as an eccentric. His unerring accuracy with a wooden blackboard rubber guaranteed your attention and I must say I learned a lot and remember those day with pleasure.
I have duly downloaded the draftsite software and after but two days playing lost the cursor! which as you can imagine makes life awkward. The community web site is aware of this problem and provides a workaround if anyone experiences the same annoying problem.
Please keep up the good work as i would so much like to be able to use my computer to carry out my 2D drawing needs and relegate my double elephant drawing board + accoutrement to the skip
kind regards
Terry
 
Terry-

Thanks for the feedback.

As I look at the various options for CAD drafting (2D, 3D), some of the things that keep coming up are:

1. 2D CAD is a very economical way to draw and design engines, if the engine is not too complex, and if you don't need to make major changes after most of the design is complete. For the price of a good 3D package, I could buy a room full of some pretty good machines to make models.

2. I don't miss having to store all the paper drawings, and having to make room for a 36" x 60" drawing board. The PDF scans, and the DWG files are easy to transport on a flash drive. I can carry a laptop wherever I go, and both read the old books, and design with CAD wherever I am.

3. The learning curve is quite steep for me trying to go to 3D, and at this point, any time saved by using 3D is lost in the 3D training.

4. The 2D drawings can be set up exactly like a drawing board, and that is appealing to those of us who came up using the manual method.

2D is a powerful tool, and I am not sure how many use all the power that is in 2D CAD. If the manufacturer's would add the parametric features from 3D into 2D CAD, there would not be as much need for 3D, since the real power is in the parametric data. The pretty renderings are just window dressing. The animations are powerful tools in 3D since you can use interference detection, but you can animate in 2D also.

As a matter of fact, there has been a great deal of power in 2D CAD, and most are not aware of it, but you can dynamically link some 2D CAD programs to Excel (tm) spreadsheets, and if you draw an object in CAD, you can link the parameters to the cells in the spreadsheet. Changing the spreadsheet values automatically changes the size of the object in the drawing. By using a spreadsheet, you can introduce the extensive mathematical tools from Excel into CAD, and Excel can be easily programmed in Visual Basic for Applications (now being phased out by MS) to do almost any type of complex programming calculation.

I will attach a 2D file that was used to create an animation.
I drew a paddlewheel oscillating engine from an old engraving, and then created a block, and copied the block 16 times, rotating the block 22.5 degrees for each copy. I plotting each of the 16 drawings to a JPG/GIF format, and used the free shareware program Polyview to create an animated GIF, which can also be used to check for interferences as the parts rotate.





View attachment Web-Oscillator-0a1.dwg

Oscillator-Animation.gif
 
Sorry, but some of your assertions are inaccurate.

#1: Yes, 3D can be expensive, but in some cases it's worth it. For just a hobby? No way. But I use it for everything. I saved thousands making my own drawings for the front porch addition, which would have paid for the package right there. The fact that I got it for free from work is a major plus, but there are much cheaper packages out there than the ones I use.

#2: 3D drawings take up no more physical space than 2D drawings. One 2 Gb thumb drive holds all the CAD I have done for personal stuff over the past several years.

#3: I could have just about anyone up to speed in 3D in less than 3 weeks, and I'm talking in an engineering environment. For home use, and since you already know 2D, I could have you working in 3D in a matter of hours. You'd not be very fast or proficient, but you'd be making parts.

#4: Drawings in 3D look exactly like what you'd expect a drawing to look like in any engineering dept. Multiple views, orthographic projections, etc. The difference is, in 3D it does most of it for you. If you make your models correctly, the dimensions are already there, and pop in automatically. Very little additional work is needed to make a decent drawing.


Worth the cost? That's a personal decision, but I'd say not for most people. But there are lots of choices out there. I'd personally never go back to 2D unless I absolutely had no chioce.

Also, the linked spreadsheet thing is built in to most 3D programs.
 

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