DoAll Bandsaw for Brian

[Harglo]

Wiring up VFD's is beyond my skill set. When I went to Toronto to buy the saw, the man selling the saw plugged it into what he said was 220 volt 3 phase, and the saw ran nicely. I'm sure that we can get it all sorted out Tuesday.

Brian
Just some thoughts. Once you get running. Make sure the switching is -first turn switch from the 220 single phase wall source. Then the saw motor run/stop must be controlled by the key pad or remote. To turn on an off the saw motor just form the wall source will in time wipe out the FVD. I have near the same saw the star up current is hi as needs to the variable speed parts working. Haven't read earlier posts but what is the saws HP an the rating FVD HP? Leaving the power from the wall switch on to the FVD doesn't hert any thing infact some would stay is good to keep capacitor's charged. I have 7 fvds in my shop but have a hard time understanding the lack of straight forward info from them.
Harvey

 

[ajoeiam]

220, 440, 380, 550...it is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates! You never know what you're going to find!!

Larger industrial 3 phase equipment in Canada is more likely to be 550/575/600 volts, 60 hertz. But there are lots of other variants out there:

https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/three-phase-electric-power/
Standards are so good that we just seem to want lots of them!

Craig

The cartoon - - - - scarily correct!!!!!!!!
Every update of most standards seems to cause a LOT more issues.
(I think it makes the developers happy - - - in inverse relation to the number of issues - - - grin!)

The comment regarding large industrial equipment in Canada is likely true in eastern Canada.
In oilfield country - - - not so much.

 

[solarenergyadventures]

Hi all, Have you checked whether the motor needs to be wired in "star" or "delta" for the VFD you are using? That could set a fault. Also you want the motor and the VFD to be close together because long wire runs can set up weird harmonics that do bad things. I hope that helps. Cheers and good luck.

 

[stragenmitsuko]

If it's a 380-220 volt motor , it should be wired in delta .
If it's a 110-220 volt it needs to be wired in star .
If it's a 600-400 volt motor it can't be used in this application .

The vfd's 3 output terminals have to be wired directly to the motor without any switches , relay's ,thermal protection or whatever and with the shortest possible wiring . I usually locate the vfd next to or on even on the motor .

All controls like start stop reverse and rpm should be handled by the vfd either on the vfd control panel or by external wiring .

Pat

 

[Gordon]

Brian: I blame you for all of my wasted time. My DoAll saw was just fine until you started looking at yours. I discovered that my blade guides were wrong and have been wrong for the last 10 years. I had guides for a 3/8 wide blade and I always use a 1/2" blade. Obviously once I discovered that I had to fix that immediately so I ended up making new guides. Obviously it follows that it is your fault.

Actually now the blade does run truer and hopefully I will not end up twisting the blades.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Question of the day is about bandsaw blades. On my smaller converted wood cutting saw, I found that the best blade was 3/4" wide bi-metallic with a 5-8 tooth configuration. My new DoAll saw takes a 120" x 1/2" blade and I can get it in bi-metallic, but the tooth configuration is only available in 10-14 and 8-12. I cut mild steel and/or aluminum from 1/8" thick up to 2" thick, with the most cutting done on 1/2"+/- steel or aluminum. Which tooth configuration would you suggest?---Brian

 

[L98fiero]

Question of the day is about bandsaw blades. On my smaller converted wood cutting saw, I found that the best blade was 3/4" wide bi-metallic with a 5-8 tooth configuration. My new DoAll saw takes a 120" x 1/2" blade and I can get it in bi-metallic, but the tooth configuration is only available in 10-14 and 8-12. I cut mild steel and/or aluminum from 1/8" thick up to 2" thick, with the most cutting done on 1/2"+/- steel or aluminum. Which tooth configuration would you suggest?---Brian

The general idea on selecting blades is you always want at least 2 teeth in the cut at any time so the best suggestion is both, when you're contouring 1/8 or even 1/4 plate you'll need the 10-14 but with the 2" stock you'll want a much more coarse tooth pattern that has a larger gullet to accommodate the chips. FWIW, there are 1/2 x 18 tpi bi-metal blades listed in a catalog I have for thinner stock as well. In case you don't already have one, a wax stick is a good idea to keep the blade lubricated, too.

 

[Gordon]

I have always used 14 tooth. Anything with fewer teeth ends up ripping out teeth when I cut anything thin. Rule is at least three teeth in the part during the cut. I have never used the bimetal blades. You may want to just use a straight blade to try it out. They are much cheaper and the problem is tearing out teeth and the bimetal blade is going to tear out teeth. I have seldom replaced a blade because it was worn out. Maybe I am just too careless.

 

[comstock-friend]

If it's a 380-220 volt motor , it should be wired in delta .
If it's a 110-220 volt it needs to be wired in star .
If it's a 600-400 volt motor it can't be used in this application .

In the USA, the most commonly found three phase motor will be dual voltage 230/460. My company built anti-terrorist barriers and shipped them to pretty much every capital city in the world. We usually got by with about 5 basic motors for the hydraulic power units. The 230/460 motors for 60 hertz are quite content to operate on 220/380 50 hertz. The occasional single phase 120/240 60 Hz, or 220 50 Hz, and of course 600V 60Hz for Canada.

John

 

[Brian Rupnow]

No joy again today with getting the saw to run. My electrical wizard has been in touch with the manufacturers/trouble-shooters for this VFD, and thought he would have success today, but it didn't happen. Now I wait for more phone calls, before seeing if I have a bad VFD, or a bad motor, or just general bad. I seen the motor run when I bought it at the used machinery place. I seen it run once very briefly here. I did find out where I can buy a bi-metallic 1/2" x 0.025" x 120" x 6-10 pitch blade locally, so have ordered one.---I do have a 2 HP electric motor, 110 volt that I can use on the bandsaw if all else fails, but I'd really rather use the motor that came with the saw.

 

[Gordon]

Brian:
Just FYI I just looked at my saw and the motor has been changed. It is a 3/4 HP 120 volt motor. I have never had a problem with it stalling or even slowing the motor. I would think that as long as you are going to be only running it at low speed you would not have a problem with a similar motor. Where you need more power is when you are cutting something requiring high speed.

 

[trlvn]

R&D Bandsaws in Brampton, ON offer both bi-metal and "Carbon flexible back" blades in variety of widths and tooth patterns. You can buy coil material and weld your own or have them make the size you need. They are super knowledgable about woodworking use and I assume they have similar expertise for metal cutting applications:

https://tufftooth.com/product-category/bandsaw-blades/
Their order desk is at 1-800-461-3895

Craig

 

[Brian Rupnow]

My middle son works for Fastenall in town, and they sell made to length bandsaw blades. I ordered a blade from them today.

 

[ajoeiam]

I have always used 14 tooth. Anything with fewer teeth ends up ripping out teeth when I cut anything thin. Rule is at least three teeth in the part during the cut. I have never used the bimetal blades. You may want to just use a straight blade to try it out. They are much cheaper and the problem is tearing out teeth and the bimetal blade is going to tear out teeth. I have seldom replaced a blade because it was worn out. Maybe I am just too careless.

Hmmmmmmmmmm - - - and why are you asking one (!!!!!!!!!!!) blade to do all the work.
Its not that hard to change blades.
One should have at least 3 blades in stock/use!
One for the bigger material being cut.
One for the most common material size being cut.
One for thin material cutting.
With good break in and careful use you can be a LOT of life out of a blade.
(Its going to save you money having the different blades!!!)

 

[JLaning427]

ajoeiam makes a great point.

I don't think too many of us would use a crosscut saw to rip with, or a 4 flute end mill on aluminum, or put with a 9 iron. All could be made to work,, but we'd rather pick the best "horse for the course", right? Why treat your bandsaw any different?

Having multiple blade choices (both TPI and width) is desirable. Narrow blades (1/8"?) for intricate work. 1/2" blades for general purpose work. Maybe 3/4" or 1" blades for straight cuts through thick material. And a variety of pitches. Ripping or resawing thick wood (the saw can do it, although you may not have a need) will require 1 to 2 TPI. Thin sheet metal you'll likely want 18 to 24 TPI. And there are applications in between.

Once you get the saw running, and I am sorry to hear you are still having issues, you will need to get or make guides for all the blade widths you want / need. Anf source the blades you need most. And get proficient at changing blades. And learn how to trifold a bandsaw blade.

James

 

[willray]

Now I wait for more phone calls, before seeing if I have a bad VFD, or a bad motor

If your electrical wizard has some motor start caps laying around, suggest that he isolate the motor and wire it up with an impromptu self-starting-static type "phase converter", just to see if it spins up. Couple caps, some 10ga jumpers and some spade terminals would do it. Walk that configuration around all 3 input legs on the motor to make sure that each is working properly. Don't even bother trying to figure out how to make the start caps drop out, just don't let it run for more than a second to make sure that it spins.

Also - just in the name of sometimes it's the stupid stuff... I have, somewhere in vague memory, a recollection of a Chinese POS VFD that ran the front interface off of line-to-ground voltage (like some old ranges and dryers), rather than line-to-line voltage. It's not possible that your 220V circuit to your VFD is half-tripped at the breaker box, is it?

 

[awake]

If your electrical wizard has some motor start caps laying around, suggest that he isolate the motor and wire it up with an impromptu self-starting-static type "phase converter", just to see if it spins up. Couple caps, some 10ga jumpers and some spade terminals would do it. Walk that configuration around all 3 input legs on the motor to make sure that each is working properly. Don't even bother trying to figure out how to make the start caps drop out, just don't let it run for more than a second to make sure that it spins.

Also - just in the name of sometimes it's the stupid stuff... I have, somewhere in vague memory, a recollection of a Chinese POS VFD that ran the front interface off of line-to-ground voltage (like some old ranges and dryers), rather than line-to-line voltage. It's not possible that your 220V circuit to your VFD is half-tripped at the breaker box, is it?

I had a similar thought, but even more basic - before I built my RPC, I tested a lot of 3-phase motors simply by wiring up two legs on a switch, putting a rope on a pulley and spinning the motor, then hitting the switch. Crude, but cheap, and generally pretty easy. You do sometimes have to reverse the direction of the start-up spin ...

But I think it is time to make the offer that I keep making, that no one ever seems to take me up on: if you will ship everything to me, I will gladly check it out and get it all working, then ship it back. No cost to you except for paying for the shipping (which should be minor, right??). But I have to mention that it may take me several years before I have a chance to get it packed up and sent back to you. Not that I'll be using it during that time. Certainly not. But of course, out of a sense of responsibility I will need to test it periodically. If it so happens that I use some of my projects to conduct the testing, that is merely coincidental ...

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Today my electrical wizard showed up, but this time he brought with him the three phase motor from his bandsaw. He hooked it up to my VFD, and it worked like a charm. This lead to farther examination of the motor on my bandsaw, and we discovered that it was absolutely "seized up"!!---This is really weird, because the saw ran at the place I bought it from, and it ran for about 15 seconds when we first hooked it up to the VFD at my place. I called the used machinery place in Toronto and told him what was happening, and asked if he had another 1 hp 1750 rpm 3-phase motor, and that if he did I would bring my motor down to Toronto and exchange it. He hummed and hawed a little and said that he wasn't sure, but he would look this afternoon and call me back. In the meantime, I'm going to try to find out what is involved in changing the bearings in the motor that came with the saw.

 

[Gordon]

If you are going to change the motor anyway why not just change it for a 120 volt single phase and forget the VFD. A used 1 HP singled phase should not cost any more than what you paid for the VFD.

 

[willray]

Today my electrical wizard showed up, but this time he brought with him the three phase motor from his bandsaw. He hooked it up to my VFD, and it worked like a charm. This lead to farther examination of the motor on my bandsaw, and we discovered that it was absolutely "seized up"!!

It would take an impressive bearing failure to go from running without making horrible noises, to completely seized instantly. While that can't be ruled out, if it's not a TEFC or other sealed-unit motor, the first thing I'd look at would be for some bit of swarf that got dislodged during your move that made its way where it ought not, and has, for example, wedged between the rotor and stator. Could be as easy as popping the end bells and blowing the thing out...