Designspark going subscription?

[Scott_M]

Lee I hope you don't mind me asking which version of Solid Edge are you using?
A lower student /free version or a full fledged version?
The reason I ask is I am a long time SE user ( since before there was even a Solid Works) and I have tried them all, and still believe that SE is hands down the best CAD program out there. If you have the full version just take the time to learn how to use it. It really is very powerful and will do most anything you could ask from CAD. It has been around since 1969 and was used on the Saturn rocket development. It was developed around "assemblies" which is one of the things that I think makes it so great. I am pretty sure that a couple of disgruntled employees broke off and started Solid works because they did not think that SE was marketing it well enough.
But anyway it is very good and worth learning.

Scott

 

[lee webster]

Hi Scott.
I use the SE community edition, 2021. I found SE hard to get into, too used to more simple cad I suppose. One of the reasons I have been trying to find a way to export files from DS, is so that I could import them into a programme like SE. I have very few designs that I couldn't re-draw in SE anyway. but others posting here have more complex designs that would be a lot of work to redo. I will spend more time with SE. I had a look at the latest version of SE, but could see any reason to update. I didn't spend much time with it.

 

[Scott_M]

I have not used the Community edition, I have been a full user complete with yearly "maintenance" fees for a long time. But it was for my business and I did not mind paying. I stopped in 2020 so that is where I will be from here on out. If you can spare the time, I think it will be worth the effort to learn how to use it. The SE community is also very helpful.
Best of luck with it ! I might have a look at that edition to see if it is much different.

Scott

 

[stanstocker]

As long as you don't have the computer connected to the Interwebb, and you use that machine/reset the time often enough that DS5 doesn't think it needs to phone home and verify its' license, I'd think you should be OK. I guess you'll know on 6/1/23 one way or the other. What's going to happen if you forget to reset the time/date before you fire up DS5? Is DS going to set a bit somewhere that means its' got an invalid license?

I'm looking into an Alibre Atom perpetual license with a CAM bundle, it doesn't look too bad so far. But like you with SolidEdge, it's a different beast. After NOT working with constraints in 3D modeling for years it's more than a bit different. The other issue I've got is that I have a lot of files in Designspark's format and I don't think it's compatible with anybody else. What do I do with all those 3D models?

Greetings!
The constraints in Alibre are not too frustrating in most cases and often just work with minimal attention. I ended up with Alibre Atom after the Fusion changes and haven't used it enough to claim expert level, too busy fixing up buildings and shops at our retirement place. The constraints in Freecad were horrific when I last tried to use it, seems even a simple box was always over or under constrained. I hear it's gotten better is almost ready for a 1.x level release. I keep trying to get in the mood to have another look but somehow something more interesting like taking a shower and going grocery shopping comes up. Freecad does however support a huge variety of file formats for import.

I tried to see what file formats DesignsparkV5 could export or defaults to. Sadly their site wouldn't even let me know such valuable trade secret stuff without having an account. Strike one for that product in my book...
Cheers,
Stan

 

[ddmckee54]

Designspark is a direct modeling program, and as such it made it a LOT easier for me to wrap my head around the complexities of 3D modeling when I first started. I was actually able to get a program that thinks in mm, at least with that version of DS, to generate a 1/2-13 thread that I 3D printed - and it WORKED. (Hole pluggers for 3D printed fidget spinners that were a gift to my then quite young great-nephews.) Other than being easy to use, DS doesn't really have a LOT to offer in the "free" Explorer version.

I'm currently running DS v5, at least until 5/31/23, after that I'll probably go with the Explorer version and continue to look for something else. It's my understanding that DS v5 has more Import/Export options than will be offered on the Explorer version, probably in an attempt to steer you to a subscription option. (Who knows what else it won't have.)

As a hobbyist I don't mind BUYING a perpetual software license, but it really chaps my patootie to have to LEASE software. Especially if at the end of that lease I can't access the files I paid to create, i.e. proprietary file types such as RSDOC. If they offered a perpetual license I'd probably consider it, but having to lease the software and then be forever at their mercy regarding lease price I don't like.

Just a "Grumpy Old Fart" I guess.
Don

 

[lee webster]

I have created a lot of projects with DS5. I have 3D printed patterns and moulds for metal casting, and 3D printed four models of my 1930 Austin Seven car in one tenth scale. If all you want to do is export to an STL file, then in MHO, DS is hard to beat. It will, to some extent, import an STEP file, nearly, sometimes. If you want to export your work as anything that can be imported into another programme, I think we are looking at a very short list. So far, STL is all I wanted to do, so it worked for me. Now I'm looking a bit further ahead, and I don't think DS will feature large in my cad future, unless I can find a way to export RSDOC files in a format to be used elsewhere. There will always be a place in my world for FreeCAD, it's what I started with. And maybe it will get sorted one day. Like Don, I am willing to buy software, but I won't look at leasing or subscription. Fusion 360 went that way, and many users went a different way. Me included.

 

[awake]

Possibly interesting, probably odd, quite probably not very helpful:

FWIW, I find that I tend to use OpenSCAD for 90% or more of my projects that will be 3d printed. I'm not sure I fully understand my own reasons for this, but I suspect part of it is the iterative nature of 3d printing designs - I generally have to print at least one, sometimes up to half-a-dozen, prototypes before I work out all the details. Sometimes this is due to the difficulty of getting exact measurements for whatever I am trying to mate the 3d print to; often it is due to needing to test the clearances. Since *everything* in OpenSCAD is generated with numeric parameters, it just seems to lend itself to a quick adjustment or small tweak (e.g., open this diameter by .3mm for a bit more clearance). Yes, I can do that in FreeCAD or whatever, but just seems a bit easier in OpenSCAD. Maybe some of the reason is that the "programmatic" approach of OpenSCAD meshes well with my long history of computer programming.

Another factor is that once I have an OpenSCAD project "dialed in," I can save it as a template to use over and over again for similar parts - I just copy and paste the code into the new project all at once, rather than having to try to disentangle the history of a FreeCAD project. This is of course aided by good programming design - I tend to design my OpenSCAD projects in a very modular fashion, with all relevant parameters saved at the front for easy modification.

All that said ... OpenSCAD has its limits. I generally find that the more complex the part is, the more likely I am to need to do the design in FreeCAD instead. And I *never* use OpenSCAD for anything other than 3d printing designs. Engines, cabinets, bookcases, shower remodel, etc. I always do in FreeCAD.

Again, not sure this will be helpful to anyone else!

 

[ddmckee54]

Lee I completely agree, DS IS hard to beat when designing something to be 3D printed. Unless you designing something that's artsy-fartsy and all curved surfaces, DS does that, but it struggles. When I started 3D modeling a few years ago it was, and still is, to design the parts required to do RC conversions - mainly using Bruder toys and/or diecast models of construction equipment. Then I started making other stuff, and as I got further into it I would 3D model a concept to see if it would work.

I've been working on building a Tadpole style recumbent trike from Atomic Zombie's "Street Fox" plans. I don't like the way his front brake mounts were designed, they use the donor bike's brakes and are simple and easy to build, but they look "kinda klunky". I got to wondering if I could fit disc brakes to the front wheels, so off I went to my favorite auction site to get a cheap set of disc brakes - that way I wouldn't be out TOO much if it didn't work out. I 3D modeled this thing because I wanted to know before I started welding things together if the wheels on the trike would go round and round, or if I was trying to fit 2 solid objects into the same space. Stationary bits don't play well with rotating spoke wheels, nor do rotating brake discs and stationary frame bits. Plus getting the steering geometry angles sorta close to correct makes for a less twitchy bike and a better ride.

I wound up with a 7 piece weldment that is the steering pivot mount/front axle mount/brake caliper mount/steering arm mount. It can be made out of a combination of pieces of 1/8"x1-1/2" flat strap and 1/8"x1" flat strap. It would be nice to be able to print out dimensioned 2D drawings of those 3D pieces. I know DS can do it WITH a several hundred dollar add-on package - as a hobbyist I can't justify that. I'm pretty sure FreeCad can do that, but FreeCad and I aren't on speaking terms. (For some reason it turned my navigation cube inside out, don't know HOW I did that.) I'm also pretty sure Alibre Atom could do it, but I haven't shelled out the cash for a perpetual license - still not sure Alibre and I are on speaking terms yet either. Right now my work around is to 3D design in DS, get the part dimensions, then redraw the flat part in NANOCAD, dimension the parts as required, and plot out the construction prints to work from.

It get's me from point A to point B, but it's not very efficient.

Don

 

[awake]

It would be nice to be able to print out dimensioned 2D drawings of those 3D pieces ... I'm pretty sure FreeCad can do that ...

Yes, FreeCAD's "TechDraw" workbench has gotten to be quite good. Once upon a time, I modeled something in 3D using FreeCAD, then fired up LibreCAD to make the drawings. With the steady improvements in FreeCAD, I haven't fired up LibreCAD in I-don't-know-how-long. I love getting drawings from any perspective, cut-aways, detail, etc., all from a single model.

 

[lee webster]

Hi Don.
When I did a search some months back about your navigation cube problem, I couldn't find any answers. Sorry. But, what I have now managed to do is convert a rsdoc file into a sat file that can be imported into Solid Edge, and I should think, any other cad package. It's a bit long winded, but the sat file imports perfectly and is fully usable. The file once imported can be edited and saved or exported to a different format, step for instance, which could then be imported into, dare I say it, FreeCAD?
DS will export a dxf as a flat image, perhaps you could import that into Nanocad?
Do you think it might be worthwhile posting details of the rsdoc conversion here? Nothing has to be bought or downloaded, but it is a bit of a fiddle.
Lee

 

[krypto]

Yes, FreeCAD's "TechDraw" workbench has gotten to be quite good. Once upon a time, I modeled something in 3D using FreeCAD, then fired up LibreCAD to make the drawings. With the steady improvements in FreeCAD, I haven't fired up LibreCAD in I-don't-know-how-long. I love getting drawings from any perspective, cut-aways, detail, etc., all from a single model.

Yeah, it gets the job done for me.

 

[ddmckee54]

I got frustrated with FreeCAD when I screwed up the navigation cube, I could still use FreeCAD but it wasn't as easy to manipulate the model. I tried something to fix it, might have been a repair? But I STILL had the nav cube issue. I think I found out later that I would probably need to uninstall FreeCAD, purge the Regristry of anything related to FreeCAD and then reinstall. Never did get around to that but I might have to give it a shot. Until I do that I'll stick with DS.

I like what FreeCAD does and particularly the idea of FreeCAD being Open Source. I also like the idea of everything residing on MY machine, I never did like the idea of storing MY stuff off in the Cloud where EVERYBODY can see it. It's not that anything I do is proprietary, it's just that the stuff I do looks so simplistic compared to what you guys do that I look like the knuckle-dragger that I am. I also like the fact that FreeCAD can handle CAM, looking to the future and a CNC router and possibly a CNC mill. Thus endth the Rant For The Day..

Don

 

[ddmckee54]

"Do you think it might be worthwhile posting details of the rsdoc conversion here? Nothing has to be bought or downloaded, but it is a bit of a fiddle."

Lee:

Might not hurt. If/when I switch to something besides DS it would be nice to have a recipe to follow to get access to any of my existing RSDOC files. No sense reinventing the wheel.

Don

 

[lee webster]

I have found a way to convert RSDOC files into SAT files that can be imported into Solid Edge and other programmes that support SAT. I would suggest that if you’re going to try this do it with files that are copies. It isn't as difficult as it looks.

1) Create a new folder from C:\ I called mine copyrsdoc.

2) Copy the RSDOC file you want to convert to this folder.

3) Copy the files SabSatConverter. Exe and SpaACIS.exe files from the folder “Program Files\DesignSpark\DesignSpark Mechanical 5.0” to copyrsdoc.

4) Rename the extension of the RSDOC file from rsdoc to zip, right click on the file and click on “Extract All”. You will be asked to nominate or create a folder to put them in. Several new folders will be created including one called, “SpaceClaim Geometry”, where you will find the SAB files for conversion.

5) Copy these files to the folder copyrsdoc. The computer may ask you if you have permission, say yes.

6) Right click on SabSatConverter.exe, click “Properties”, click “Compatibility” on the tabs at the top and click on “run this program as administrator”. I don’t know if that bit is necessary, but it worked for me.

7) Start the “Command Prompt”. On Win10 it is found in the “Start” menu, “Windows System”. On Win11 “Control Panel, All Control Panel Items, Windows Tools”.

8) From the Command Prompt type “C:\copyrsdoc\sabsatconverter.exe -i C:\copyrsdoc\a1.sab -o C:\copyrsdoc\a1.sat”

To clarify the above. I renamed the SAB file as a1.sab for ease of typing. Replace “rsdoc” with whatever you have named the folder in 1). There is a space after sabsatconverter.exe, then a minus sign, then a lower case i (eye). Then a space before the next C:\. There is a space after a1.sab, then minus, then lower case o (oh). Each SAB file will have to be converted this way.

This worked for me when I imported the SAT file into Solid Edge. I could then save the file or re-export it in a different format.

I am no expert here! I have only used this with an RSDOC file that had two bodies in it. I don’t think I would convert simple rsdoc files, I would save this conversion for difficult stuff.

I also found a way of importing a STEP file into DS5 and editing it, normally when you import a STEP it is locked.

1) Import the STEP file.

2) Start a new sketch and draw a circle that isn’t touching the STEP body.

3) Extrude the circle, again, it mustn’t touch the STEP body.

4) In the tree, select the STEP body and the new body you just created. Important to select both.

5) Right click on the padlock icon by the STEP body and click on LOCK. The tick mark should disappear and the STEP body should now be unlocked. Then new body you drew can be deleted.