CX601 Milling Machine

[Linz]

So this is the electronics card being replaced. It wasn't the one at the rear of the control box, it was located on the inside/underside of the top of the control box. The new electronics card they sent me does match this one in the picture. according to the BusyBee technician, it should be pretty well a "plug and play" job, with no soldering required. These photos will be my record of what things looked like before I start pulling off wires and transferring them to the new card, one at a time.

The open terminal is just a ground out connection. The ground in is connected to various other points in the machine and this terminal is not used. Not a lot to go wrong with this board. 110v in, filtered, 110v out. The stepped down voltage from the transformer supplies power to the display via that ribbon cable.

 

[Linz]

New board is installed, and still no cure. However, there is some good in this.--I now realize that I don't have to transport the entire mill to Toronto for Repairs. I only need to take the head with the motor on it. Am I disappointed?---Yes. Ah well, my hands and wrists are too buggered up with carpal tunnel to do much anyways. I've worked almost every day this winter on my mill and lathe, and if I have a few more days of downtime it isn't going to matter one way or the other.

Unfortunate indeed. However, you are lucky to be close to the Toronto branch. I am suffering a similar fate with my BRAND NEW CX-701 lathe and getting it running here in Edmonton is NOT proving to be as easy.

 

[Linz]

Today I got the phone call from BusyBee in Toronto. The holder for the glass fuse which is located on the underside of the control box had failed internally. The technician said that he has never seen that happen before. I had the fuse out and examined it while I was trouble shooting the mill myself, but the fuse was okay. The mill will be shipped back to me on Thursday. I personally am not doing very well, as I have carpal tunnel syndrome in both wrists and very bad arthritis in my knees. I'm off to see the doctor in about an hour.---Brian

Well, you must be special. I currently can't even get the courtesy of a return call. I hear ya on the carpal tunnel and arthritis problems. Had carpal tunnel release surgery on left hand and right is getting worse. Arthritis areas show up white on xrays, almost like a glowing light. My full body scan has me pretty much lit up from head to toe. Lots of injuries over the years. Season changes are brutal. Good luck.

 

[Courierdog]

Linz
Good to hear you are close by, I am in Edmonton. I agree that some of the Edmonton Staff are not as caring as they should be, when it comes to returning calls ETC, this was why I ended up purchasing from the Little Machine Shop in California who as far as I am concerned provides excellent customer follow up.
If BusyBeeTools were to adopt the LMS Customer Attitude BusyBeeTools would more than double their business.
I personally believe the Seig machines are not quite the same quality of the Weiss machines sold by BusyBeeTools and the cost as delivered in Canada is about the same as the items from BusyBeeTools.
If you find a BusyBeeTools location that does provide good service and gives you the confidence that they care then by means give them your business. The Craftex / Weiss machines are excellent quality. Since I am not a machinist and my background is electronics and Antennas, I require customer support.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

I am fortunate to be only 50 miles from Toronto. I find the technicians to be very helpful and decent to deal with. In broad strokes, the store owners at local level are quite willing to take your money, but are as useless as **** on a chicken if you have any trouble with the machines they sell you.---Brian

 

[Linz]

Linz
Good to hear you are close by, I am in Edmonton. I agree that some of the Edmonton Staff are not as caring as they should be, when it comes to returning calls ETC, this was why I ended up purchasing from the Little Machine Shop in California who as far as I am concerned provides excellent customer follow up.
If BusyBeeTools were to adopt the LMS Customer Attitude BusyBeeTools would more than double their business.
I personally believe the Seig machines are not quite the same quality of the Weiss machines sold by BusyBeeTools and the cost as delivered in Canada is about the same as the items from BusyBeeTools.
If you find a BusyBeeTools location that does provide good service and gives you the confidence that they care then by means give them your business. The Craftex / Weiss machines are excellent quality. Since I am not a machinist and my background is electronics and Antennas, I require customer support.

Most of the staff I have spoken to in Edmonton are ok, a couple are even quite good to speak with. Unfortunately, they have no say in after sale service/warranty matters. It's the Ontario, Concord(Toronto) head office I'm currently having issues with. Current shipping costs make it virtually impossible to justify buying hobby (budget) machines from the USA. For that matter, even somewhere else in Canada if you have to pay shipping.

The budget (home hobby) type machines and tools are all quite similar amongst the various vendors, it's the service that makes all the difference and I feel BB's customer service to this point has been horrible. I can't comment on the Quality (result wise) they produce as they are not running yet. The fit and finish is as expected from budget machines, nothing more. The electrical/electronic components are among the cheapest available. At the end of the day, these are budget machines and I knew that going in. That's all I can afford and they are just for home hobby, learning, tinkering.

 

[Linz]

I am fortunate to be only 50 miles from Toronto. I find the technicians to be very helpful and decent to deal with. In broad strokes, the store owners at local level are quite willing to take your money, but are as useless as **** on a chicken if you have any trouble with the machines they sell you.---Brian

It seems proximity to the Toronto (head office) location is the deciding factor on whether one should deal with BB or not. I don't know if the other stores are individually owed or just managed under the umbrella of the head office. I am told here in Edmonton they don't carry any replacement parts or do any actual work on the machines. They told me I have to order parts directly from Toronto and that they are required to ship anything requiring service back to Ontario.

I have never been able to call directly to any technician and have only had a customer service call answered twice before having them forward me to hold followed by voicemail on the technical line. I had my initial customer service call on my failed new 701 lathe returned and he did seem decent and attempting to be helpful as well. He offered to send replacement parts that I would install myself. I told him several times that I was willing to work with them to get the machine running but expected to receive the parts in a reasonable amount of time. He told me he had them and would send them out right away. That was 3 weeks ago. Haven't heard a thing. Finally called them for an update on the situation but could only reach the voice mail. I left several messages but have not received a return call.

 

[trlvn]

... useless [...] if you have any trouble with the machines they sell you.---Brian

I don't want to antagonize you but...what did you expect? We all want machines with lots of features but at a really low cost. To achieve that, such machine are built of low-cost components in a far-away, low-labour-cost market. I expect that BusyBee will eventually get you up and going but it may be a long haul with multiple attempts.

The owner of BusyBee drops in to the CanadianWoodworking site periodically and he sincerely seems to want to solve problems and help users. For instance, I believe they sometimes scavenge parts off floor machines to send to a customer in need. And hopefully get a replacement part for the now-dead floor machine. If you are not getting satisfaction, you might try contacting him directly.

BusyBee is far from perfect but you seem to be expecting 5-star service while paying 3-star rates?

Craig

 

[Linz]

I don't want to antagonize you but...what did you expect? We all want machines with lots of features but at a really low cost. To achieve that, such machine are built of low-cost components in a far-away, low-labour-cost market. I expect that BusyBee will eventually get you up and going but it may be a long haul with multiple attempts.

The owner of BusyBee drops in to the CanadianWoodworking site periodically and he sincerely seems to want to solve problems and help users. For instance, I believe they sometimes scavenge parts off floor machines to send to a customer in need. And hopefully get a replacement part for the now-dead floor machine. If you are not getting satisfaction, you might try contacting him directly.

BusyBee is far from perfect but you seem to be expecting 5-star service while paying 3-star rates?

Craig

I'm not sure if you are directing that towards, Brian or me. Brian has been great here! He as taken the time to review the Craftex CX-601. He's posted pictures of his additions and upgrades, documented procedures, made drawings and offered files to anyone who could use them. He readily admits when he's wrong or is unfamiliar with something. He pretty much exemplifies what you look for in a forum thread poster. He has also stated in several places that he is satisfied with his Craftex machines and can work with, live with or deal with the service he gets from BusyBee. The comment on local dealers being useless after the sale is 100% correct in what I have experienced.

Myself, I haven't seen any positive traits exhibited by BusyBee Tools. We all know what these machines are. We know why and where they are made. What do we expect? We expect the vendors of these machines to provide support and customer service to those that buy them. You don't have to sell top-of-the-line items to provide top-of-the-line-service. As far as I'm concerned, BusyBee does neither.

Maybe the "owner" can spend some time on his own BusyBee Tools site, read the "About Us" section and try to actually do or provide some of these things. Maybe he can teach his employees how to answer the phone or return calls. Maybe he can teach his employees to be honest with customers and/or to follow through doing things they say they will.

I don't expect a 5-star machine at 3-star rates but yes, I do expect 5-Star service. This is their business (selling low end machines), they chose to do it and they are the ones who profit from it. You seem to equate the price/quality of the goods to be tied to the level of customer service you get, that is why places like this still exist. One day, if we have more and better choices, and BusyBee goes out of business, you can ask the owner "What did you expect?"

 

[awake]

I don't want to antagonize you but...what did you expect? We all want machines with lots of features but at a really low cost. To achieve that, such machine are built of low-cost components in a far-away, low-labour-cost market. I expect that BusyBee will eventually get you up and going but it may be a long haul with multiple attempts.

The owner of BusyBee drops in to the CanadianWoodworking site periodically and he sincerely seems to want to solve problems and help users. For instance, I believe they sometimes scavenge parts off floor machines to send to a customer in need. And hopefully get a replacement part for the now-dead floor machine. If you are not getting satisfaction, you might try contacting him directly.

BusyBee is far from perfect but you seem to be expecting 5-star service while paying 3-star rates?

Craig

Hmm ... are the only choices 5-star service or 0-star service? I would think it would be reasonable to expect 3-star service for 3-star rates ... but based on what Brian and Linz are reporting, it sounds like they are getting more like 0-star service, certainly from the local stores, and in Linz's case, even reaching beyond the local store. IOW, no, I wouldn't expect the local store or even a regional manager to be able to diagnose the problems and fix them personally, but I would hope that 3-star service would at least include some attitude of caring that there is a problem and wanting to help make it right!

 

[trlvn]

Late last week BusyBee sent Brian a new board expecting that would cure the described problem. Unfortunately, it didn't:
#105

He took the head to them and on Monday this week they called him to say they had found the problem (fuse) and were sending the repaired unit to the store nearest his home:
#117

That seem to me to be pretty good service and far from "useless". Perhaps Brian's fall left him a little grumpy. I'm sure I would be. 5-star service would have been a technician dispatched to his home. I'm just saying I don't expect white linens and an experienced sommelier when I buy a meal at MacDonalds!

Craig

 

[Courierdog]

Craig:
I think you are missing the point that most of use understand.
Brian is a gentleman, and has the luxury of being able to drive to Toronto from Barrie. There are more of us out in the "Left Overshoe" of Canada who while we may live near a city that happens to have a BusyBeeTools outlet. As has also been said Only Toronto is authorized to perform repairs or ship out spares.
Here in Edmonton, IF, BusyBeeTools will return my call, and if they will pass the information along to Toronto, a week or more has already past.
This is reality living in Canada.
I have lived In the Maritimes, In Ontario, and Alberta and there is a huge difference in treatment if you live anywhere but Toronto the Blessed, oh and by the way you also must life on the correct side of the tracks as well.
It has nothing to do with eating at McDonalds and expecting service befitting the old Royal York.
It is about being treated as a valued customer.
One very wise manager I once had said, It does not matter what the customers orders, be it the least expensive item or the most extravagant item, you give every customer the treatment as if they just bought the store, and you will never disappoint the customer, or the company you represent.
My two cents

 

[Linz]

Craig, Sorry, but you are a very confused individual. He said he finds the LOCAL store useless( when there is an issue or problem with the machine). I find that to be100% accurate here in Edmonton as well. No one individual's fault. Maybe it's just the Busybee business model. I don't care if the local employee knows anything or not. They should be able to find the required information or maybe carry some of the parts or possibly order them in. Maybe they should be the ones contacting "head office" because I sure find them useless in handling customers as well. All the BusyBee employees should at least be part of the support team and provide customer service along with sales. Maybe the "head office" wants to be in total control and won't allow individual stores to stock, distribute parts, or contact them on the customer's behalf. I don't know. What I do know is that my experience with BusyBee (not the machines, as they are not running yet) has been horrible! Awake, Courierdog, and I'm sure several others, get it. The goods being sold, their cost, the condition of the building, the average yearly income of the customers, the size of their house, the type of car they drive, the color of your eyes, the alignment of the planets or anything else you can think of have nothing to do with the way a customer should be treated in respect to the business. CUSTOMER SERVICE.

I'm going to stop beating this "Dead Horse" now. You either understand "customer service" or you don't. I hope this thread can return to reporting on the Craftex CX-601 mill as intended.

 

[Richard Hed]

Late last week BusyBee sent Brian a new board expecting that would cure the described problem. Unfortunately, it didn't:
#105

He took the head to them and on Monday this week they called him to say they had found the problem (fuse) and were sending the repaired unit to the store nearest his home:
#117

That seem to me to be pretty good service and far from "useless". Perhaps Brian's fall left him a little grumpy. I'm sure I would be. 5-star service would have been a technician dispatched to his home. I'm just saying I don't expect white linens and an experienced sommelier when I buy a meal at MacDonalds!

Craig

There ya go! I wouldn't buy a meal at mccancers under ANY circumstances.

 

[Courierdog]

Ok! I t now time to turn it back to Brian, to continue his saga of the CX601. The Machine CX601 is a good machine for the money spent. Yes there are some weak points, which if were reported back to the manufactures would be fixed in due course. Those dealers who have a direct link to the company have found the manufactures are keenly interested in improving their product and their customer image as well. Just because some of the machines being discussed have started out extremely cheap, take note of the latest versions in comparison to the first iteration of the same machine. If the west thinks the Chinese do not listen or do not care are in for a very rude surprise. The Quality of their machines and merchandise in general has been improving. All these things take time.
We do not have to go off shore to realize the true facts about manufacturing. Take a breath and look at the South Bend Lathes as an example in the US or the MyFord in the UK. These machines did not magically appear one day as the perfect example of Machining Excellence. No Machining Excellence comes by hard work, perseverance and adherence to best practices and above all listen to what the customer wants. Listening to the customer, can pay huge dividends. The Concept of Total Quality while written by an American was taken to heart by the Japanese and Taiwanese who have taken W. Edwards Deming's words to heart and now you will find some of the best examples of the machining arts are produced in Japan and Taiwan. Deming's treatise in essence was Customer Service taken to the extreme. Break it down to the basics, Plan, Do, Check, Action. I was fortunate to take his course and it has nothing to do with Quality Control which is what the Americans consider what it is about. Total Quality is about the process and the control of the process, down to the smallest detail. In essence Total Quality is about taking each single step of the over all process and breaking it down and improving each and every step. It does not stop there, the improvement of each step does not stop, it is a continual process. Those people and those companies who apply and continue to apply Deming's concept and make it a part of their company at the heart find that even the people take to process home and it is and can be a transforming process. The Smallest process done right, and worked at to improve even the smallest points within the process can and does make a difference.
Take making your morning cup of coffee or tea your choice. Start there and write down the process you use. Use this as your personal experiment. Read Deming and use his concept and work your own process to achieve your morning beverage. Keep working your process. You will be very surprised in short order you can improve the end result. The big caution is never assume you have arrived. The TQ concept is never ending it is a beginning.
OK I will get off my Soap Box and Wait for Brian to get back on and keep us on Track of the perfection of the CX601 Mill. Lets hear it for Brian and his patience and perseverance.

 

[Richard Hed]

Ok! I t now time to turn it back to Brian, to continue his saga of the CX601. The Machine CX601 is a good machine for the money spent. Yes there are some weak points, which if were reported back to the manufactures would be fixed in due course. Those dealers who have a direct link to the company have found the manufactures are keenly interested in improving their product and their customer image as well. Just because some of the machines being discussed have started out extremely cheap, take note of the latest versions in comparison to the first iteration of the same machine. If the west thinks the Chinese do not listen or do not care are in for a very rude surprise. The Quality of their machines and merchandise in general has been improving. All these things take time.
We do not have to go off shore to realize the true facts about manufacturing. Take a breath and look at the South Bend Lathes as an example in the US or the MyFord in the UK. These machines did not magically appear one day as the perfect example of Machining Excellence. No Machining Excellence comes by hard work, perseverance and adherence to best practices and above all listen to what the customer wants. Listening to the customer, can pay huge dividends. The Concept of Total Quality while written by an American was taken to heart by the Japanese and Taiwanese who have taken W. Edwards Deming's words to heart and now you will find some of the best examples of the machining arts are produced in Japan and Taiwan. Deming's treatise in essence was Customer Service taken to the extreme. Break it down to the basics, Plan, Do, Check, Action. I was fortunate to take his course and it has nothing to do with Quality Control which is what the Americans consider what it is about. Total Quality is about the process and the control of the process, down to the smallest detail. In essence Total Quality is about taking each single step of the over all process and breaking it down and improving each and every step. It does not stop there, the improvement of each step does not stop, it is a continual process. Those people and those companies who apply and continue to apply Deming's concept and make it a part of their company at the heart find that even the people take to process home and it is and can be a transforming process. The Smallest process done right, and worked at to improve even the smallest points within the process can and does make a difference.
Take making your morning cup of coffee or tea your choice. Start there and write down the process you use. Use this as your personal experiment. Read Deming and use his concept and work your own process to achieve your morning beverage. Keep working your process. You will be very surprised in short order you can improve the end result. The big caution is never assume you have arrived. The TQ concept is never ending it is a beginning.
OK I will get off my Soap Box and Wait for Brian to get back on and keep us on Track of the perfection of the CX601 Mill. Lets hear it for Brian and his patience and perseverance.

That's how and why we learn--unconsiously or conciously, we improve in what we do. Those of us who do well, continually improve. We may not be aware of it but it is indeed, our process. Ford motor company one time in the 80s made a terrible mistake as they had the process in which a part was machined to +- .020". They had a male and female part for the transmissions in which the parts were made by different companies, all by the correct spec! But when the parts were put together for assembly, they didn't fit as the specs overlapped. It cost a lot of $$ to redo the parts. you remember the 80s? That's when Ford made their worst products eveer, very arrogant, almost as arrogant as GM. Actually, I believe there was actually somethign else at work here: since all the American car companies owned a huge portion of the Japanese companies, the American car companies actually wanted to put their own companies out of business!. Seems like crap what I am saying. But look at the evidence: Parts are mostly made overseas, all the unions are done for, people lost scores of thousands of jobs.

 

[Brian Rupnow]

An update on what is happening with the mill. I went over to BusyBee sales outlet today in Barrie and picked up the power head for my mill. (Toronto BusyBee ships it up to my local BusyBee with no charge to me.) They refunded $67 to me because the filter board they had originally sent me was not the problem. They put a new power cord on the mill and a new fuse holder. They charged me $15 for the new power cord and nothing for the new fuse holder. Two hours labour cost $100.00 I'm okay with this. It is a good milling machine and I am very happy with it. I used my cherry-picker engine hoist to unload it from my truck and onto my two wheel pallet truck, then maneuvered it from my garage into my office. It is extremely heavy. I may enlist the help of my younger son to get it off the pallet truck and back into position on the mill. My hands are bad with carpal tunnel syndrome right now, so I'm in no great rush.

 

[Richard Hed]

An update on what is happening with the mill. I went over to BusyBee sales outlet today in Barrie and picked up the power head for my mill. (Toronto BusyBee ships it up to my local BusyBee with no charge to me.) They refunded $67 to me because the filter board they had originally sent me was not the problem. They put a new power cord on the mill and a new fuse holder. They charged me $15 for the new power cord and nothing for the new fuse holder. Two hours labour cost $100.00 I'm okay with this. It is a good milling machine and I am very happy with it. I used my cherry-picker engine hoist to unload it from my truck and onto my two wheel pallet truck, then maneuvered it from my garage into my office. It is extremely heavy. I may enlist the help of my younger son to get it off the pallet truck and back into position on the mill. My hands are bad with carpal tunnel syndrome right now, so I'm in no great rush.

Wait a minute--what is a two wheel pallet truck? Is it like a two wheel trailor?

 

[Brian Rupnow]

I may have made that name up. I really didn`t know exactly what this was called.

 

[Richard Hed]

Oh. We call that a hand truck, no wonder I didn't know what it was. Language slowly diverges regionally but with internet, it should re-converge. Thanx, learned a new word today.