Copyright !! Again.

[minh-thanh]

Hi All !
I have seen a few projects here, and quite a lot of images and videos about small engines on the internet, I quite like some kind of engine. I have a question: If I based on the engine images in the forum, the internet and design and build a similar engine, is this okay?, is this allowed ?? .
Thanks !

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Minh-Thanh,

In general I would say yes it is ! It would be polite to ask the original author though. Most would be proud that someone has taken sufficient interest to do so.

Take my Drilling and tapping carriage for rear tool post pictures.
They are derived from the original patent and the idea has been copied many times and used commercially by Rolls Royce, Myford/Drummond and I'm sure by others.

 

[Cogsy]

Designing and building a similar looking engine is perfectly fine. But if you had the drawings of an engine and just drew your own set or based your internal design off the plans then, even if you changed some things, you would probably have issues with copyright. Of course you'd only have copyright problems if you then wanted to sell or distribute the plans (even for free).

 

[minh-thanh]

BaronJ, Cogsy .
Thanks !
Cogsy :
I just based on the pictures of the completed engine.
As you did seen (I'm pretty sure you know ), all engines I did were based on what I had learned and I could have done. I had no intention of using someone else's plan and fixing it and it became my plan.- Never ! . That's the least I have to do when I join this forum.

 

[Richard Hed]

BaronJ, Cogsy .
Thanks !
Cogsy :
I just based on the pictures of the completed engine.
As you did seen (I'm pretty sure you know ), all engines I did were based on what I had learned and I could have done. I had no intention of using someone else's plan and fixing it and it became my plan.- Never ! . That's the least I have to do when I join this forum.

There are other factors as well. Nearly ALL steam engine ideas are over 100 years old and as far as I know, they really are past copyright, that is, each and every "separate" idea is past copyright. However, someone could put the ideas together in a new fashion and copyright THAT. Also, if you are making this for yourself and do not intend to make $$ off the ideas, it probably does not infringe on copyright.

 

[BaronJ]

Hi Guys,

On all the plans and drawings I produce and publish on the forums which are all open source except that I add the words "Not for any commercial use". Annoyingly there is one website i know of that has quite blatantly taken some of my ideas and those of others, and published them as their own.

 

[tornitore45]

One infringes on copyrights and/or patents only if is selling or reproducing and making something available for profit.
One can build or copy any item for his own use without selling.
Copyrighted material can be photocopied for your own use if you own the original. Distributing, giving, passing the copy to others would be an infringement.

 

[Richard Hed]

One infringes on copyrights and/or patents only if is selling or reproducing and making something available for profit.
One can build or copy any item for his own use without selling.
Copyrighted material can be photocopied for your own use if you own the original. Distributing, giving, passing the copy to others would be an infringement.

All that is true, that is, as long as it is presently under copyright length of time. The copyright eventually expires and anybody can use the information freely and for profit. There is ONE exception that I know of and that is rights to movies from books since the time that movies were invented. That sounds like a crock to me, but I suppose, like so many industries having congress pass special laws for themselves, the movie industry got copyright laws passed to be able to "own" the rights of a book past copyright time for making movies.

 

[retailer]

There is no way you can be accused of breach of copyright if you design and build your own version of something you've seen on the internet, in a forum, a museum or even in the engine bay of a car.
The majority of engine designs are copies of or based on past existing designs in one way or another, the very popular V4 PeeWee is a copyright design however it is not the first OHV V4 with central camshaft and front mounted water pump ever designed, splash lubrication has been around for 100 years or possibly more. Mr B Shore certainly did not breach any copyright with the design, he may have followed the basics of what others had done before him but he put his own touches to it to make his own. You may want to acknowledge the designer of an engine you have based your design on, I know that not everyone does it but it is the polite thing to do.

 

[Richard Hed]

There is no way you can be accused of breach of copyright if you design and build your own version of something you've seen on the internet, in a forum, a museum or even in the engine bay of a car.
The majority of engine designs are copies of or based on past existing designs in one way or another, the very popular V4 PeeWee is a copyright design however it is not the first OHV V4 with central camshaft and front mounted water pump ever designed, splash lubrication has been around for 100 years or possibly more. Mr B Shore certainly did not breach any copyright with the design, he may have followed the basics of what others had done before him but he put his own touches to it to make his own. You may want to acknowledge the designer of an engine you have based your design on, I know that not everyone does it but it is the polite thing to do.

Usually this is true, and I go by this in most of what I do, however, I also make my own improvements. The improvements are patentable if they have not already been patented or are not in the common use category. (For instance, I thimk the wheel has probably not been patented, but you could not patent "the wheel" because it has been in common for millenia. However, you might add some little thing to make the wheel more efficient, say, magnetic bearings. The bearings might be patentable.

 

[L98fiero]

FWIW, a patent is only as good as your [financial] ability to enforce it.

 

[Ken I]

All of my original plans that I have posted on this website are listed as free use - where the plans are based on others I credit the original author.

I have had a few of my plans turn up for sale on some sites - doesn't really bother me - I said they were free - but it bugs me that people pay for something they could have had for free if they'd just kept looking.

One set of plans from a site in Australia is for a modified version of my axially ported elbow engine and credits me with the original design and construction - appreciated.

Most don't ask or give credit - posting it as their own work really annoys me - but not much can be done about it.

Regards - Ken

 

[SmithDoor]

Copyright is good for about 125 years for Corp and 75 years after the writer's passing.
Charts and tables can not have a copyright.
Nothing be for 1925 has copyright this includes the great photos you see of engines and tool that you see all books that, only the writing in the book have copyright.
The last copyright I got was $35.00 simple to do

https://www.copyright.gov/

 

[minh-thanh]

Thanks for all the comments !

 

[Steamchick]

Having worked in the car industry, for a major car-maker, I have secure a patent as part of my job. But it will never be used as it has been superceded by technology. That aside, it is the policy of all such businesses to do a "Bolton and Watt" or "Eddison" and secure as many patents as possible in case any become commercially valuable so rivals must pay for the privilege of using the idea, or think of something else that may cost more. E.g. Watt invented a gear option because a rival had already patented the crankshaft. But Bolton and Watt dropped the Watt gear crank in favour of the better and cheaper crank that we all use, as soon as the patent expired.
Certainly copying anything off a website should not incur patent infringments, unless the idea is really unique and someone states it is patented. The web is "the public domain", and we own nothing we publish on it. Well, that's what I understand.
Enjoy modelling!
K

 

[Steamchick]

Someone will correct me when I am wrong, but I think Eddison used Tesla's ideas and used his company wealth to prevent Tesla from using them! And didn't pay Tesla for the ideas - although he had promised to do so when he employed Tesla.... Normal practice in business I reckon.

 

[coulsea]

Patent and copyright are two different things. A patent in our world would cover how something works such as 2 stroke or 4 stroke, or steam chest v piston valve, all of these things are long out of patent. Copyright would cover a set of plans, but not the idea. so you could draw scale plans of an existing engine and have the copyright to those plans, but anyone else could draw up plans of the same engine at the same scale without infringing your copyright.
Map makers in the past would insert imaginary towns and features so they could prove that their map was copied, some of these still exist in maps today.
books like "the shop wisdom of ????" are freely available for download because they are out of copyright but you can still buy the book.
of course this is a very simple explanation of a complex legal issue.

 

[stevehuckss396]

If I based on the engine images in the forum, the internet and design and build a similar engine, is this okay?, is this allowed ?? .
Thanks !

I think you are beating a dead horse here. If you see a picture of something and go through all the work to design one in miniature NOT using another person's drawings to realize a running miniature, you are fine. You can build, and sell plans if you want. As long as you did all the work yourself not incorporating anyone else's work into it, your good. Design it, build it, sell it!

 

[retailer]

Someone will correct me when I am wrong, but I think Eddison used Tesla's ideas and used his company wealth to prevent Tesla from using them! And didn't pay Tesla for the ideas - although he had promised to do so when he employed Tesla.... Normal practice in business I reckon

A bit off topic but :- There is a movie out called Current Wars, worth a watch if the rivalry between Edison and Tesla interests you.

 

[minh-thanh]

I think you are beating a dead horse here.

You mean my question is meaningless?
If so, with you it is meaningless , with me: at least I understand : that I can or cannot do it.
My question has been answered clearly, let's end it here !!
Again, Thanks All !