Car Repairs

[cfellows]

Took the wife's 2000 Altima into the dealer for estimates to repair a water leak, an oil leak, and a bad engine vibration that shook the whole car. The dealer came back with the following estimate:

New Radiator, Hoses, & Backflush - $1,215.00
Replace 1 bad Motor Mount - $408.00
Replace Valve Cover Gasket - $135.00
Tax on all the above - $145.00

Total: $1903.00

As much as I hate working on cars, I decided to do the work myself. My cost broke down as follows:

JB Weld a crack in the plastic top on radiator - $7.50 (actually already had some on hand)
Motor Mount: $107.00 (including tax from Autozone)
Valve Cover Gasket set: $27.00 (including tax from Autozone)

Oh, and $110 to the dealer for diagnosing the problems...

Total: $251.50

I think I earned some money to go toward new toys, don't you?

Chuck

 

[Walsheng]

For years I worked on our cars and I always estimated what it would have cost me to have someone do it and I would spend half that amount on tools to make the next job easier.
Now I have a barn full of tools no desire to work on cars ever again.
I do have a bunch of tools to work on things that I do want to work on like model engines.

John

 

[cheepo45]

I was an Auto Technician for 25 years before I became a Machinist. I have always done as many repairs on everything as possible. The money I have saved has gotten me many things, including a nice home machine shop!
Cheepo45

 

[cfellows]

As much as I like to save money, my real motivation for doing the repairs myself was that I wasn't entirely convinced that the dealership had accurately diagnosed the problem. I was afraid I'd hand them nearly $2,000 for the repairs only for them to come back and say, "Hmmm, guess that wasn't the problem, we'll need another $2,000 to fix the real problem". It doesn't seem like auto repair is an exact science. It's more like cut-and-try at the expense of the owner.

I figured I wasn't out that much if I needed to do more. And as far as the radiator goes, I decided to try the JB Weld and if it didn't work, I'd go spend $300 on a new radiator and hoses and replace them myself.

Chuck

 

[mcostello]

The wife has taken for granted the repairs I make to keep the cars running and has griped about tools bought to save the money. A friend of hers had ball joints replaced for $2000, I just did ours for around $75. Lights went off in Her head and she was pleased with things, first time ever. As a byline I just had the van in for an alignment and was not told ball joint was worn badly and could fail and come out of place when hitting a pothole, thereby letting the wheel go sideways and stopping forward momentum. Should have been unable to fail in such a manner, if I were up to highway speed on an Interstate highway the results could have been tragic.

 

[Tin Falcon]

It doesn't seem like auto repair is an exact science. It's more like cut-and-try at the expense of the owner.

chuck : I work in the service industry. I do scale work. electronic truck scales can be a real pain to diagnose. there can be a dozen different components that cause one problem. Sometime you find a bad part only to find another one has failed as well. tI can be frustrating for the tech as well as the customer. No one wants to hear we need to order another part overnight air. And it is not fun to have to break such news.

As far as the car stuff I used to fix a lot of my own thing when I was young. then it seemed time was at a premium and working in the backyard in the dirt and rain less appealing.
A couple years ago I had a fairly new to me used car. I still have it and it runs good. but one Friday afternoon in July the starter gave out. I started the car moved it across the parking lot loaded my tools said goodbye to coworkers locked the shop door got in my car turned the key and nada, nothin', no worky, not start. so pull the starter in the parking lot. drive the work van to the auto parts store. installed the new starter and good to go. It is good not to have to go to a mechanic all the time.

These days my son is teaching himself auto/ truck repair. He had a fixer upper Ford ranger for a while now a Chevy blazer. so helping him press out U joints and ball joints. He is helping me some with my car as well. And I am doing more these days.
The windshield washer pump was not working on the wife's car. I expect a mechanic would have charged $ 50 -$75 to replace the pump. I cleaned the connectors it works fine now.
Tin

 

[dman]

As much as I like to save money, my real motivation for doing the repairs myself was that I wasn't entirely convinced that the dealership had accurately diagnosed the problem. I was afraid I'd hand them nearly $2,000 for the repairs only for them to come back and say, "Hmmm, guess that wasn't the problem, we'll need another $2,000 to fix the real problem". It doesn't seem like auto repair is an exact science. It's more like cut-and-try at the expense of the owner.

I figured I wasn't out that much if I needed to do more. And as far as the radiator goes, I decided to try the JB Weld and if it didn't work, I'd go spend $300 on a new radiator and hoses and replace them myself.

Chuck

well the truth is diagnostics can be nearly an exact science but it takes time and intelligance, two things that cost money. it's easier for the shop owner to sell things to the customer when wrenches are being turned and parts changed than a guy spending several hours with a multimeter and a code reader staring at your car. one problem that happens when you let people think about the problems is they over think things especially if they only have a partial understanding of the system because they try to draw conclusions on what systems are in some way connected to the problem and don't know the specific behavior you'd expect from certain failures. (i've definately been guilty of this before i really knew how fuel injection systems calculated air flow and the specific modes it runs under. most people dont actually know any of that for sure but it's actually simple)

it's just easier for the shop if they can keep money and work flowing than to specialize in diagnostics.

 

[t.l.a.r. eng]

As much as I like to save money, my real motivation for doing the repairs myself was that I wasn't entirely convinced that the dealership had accurately diagnosed the problem. I was afraid I'd hand them nearly $2,000 for the repairs only for them to come back and say, "Hmmm, guess that wasn't the problem, we'll need another $2,000 to fix the real problem". It doesn't seem like auto repair is an exact science. It's more like cut-and-try at the expense of the owner.

Chuck

It seems that way, but most "techs" [read parts replacers] don't want to put forth the effort to learn how the systems work and the management just wants you to watch a video to see how it works and what parts are the most commonly replaced and we are all good to go.

Plus the techs are allways harped at to upsell everything they find, legit or not as it is usually a matter of opinion as to wether or not the part is good or needs replacing.

After 33 yrs as a tech volumes of books could be written, but the industry is allways changing, not allways for the good. Good techs get discouraged from the low pay and move on.

Usually a good tech gets stuck with the problem car hard to diagnose that pays little to fix on flat rate, like a half hour wiring repair that took 4 hrs to find, while the dummy gets a brake job that pays off well on flat rate. I'll leave it at that. :wall:

 

[dman]

I once worked on a Chrysler that sat for some time with a code for knock sensor circuit. first step was to check the sensor and I believe the customer already purchased one. well its a fair amount of work to get to because its under a complex multi piece intake manifold. when I get too it the area under the manifold turned out to be a large rodents nest full of scat and dirt and fibrous materials. after some cleaning and sanitizing I see the knock sensor wiring has bite marks. seems pretty straightforward. I change the sensor but there is no way to test without assembling the car. I put it all together and same code plus my friend I was working for heard an imaginary intake leak. now I have to start the job from the beginning all over and test the circuit for shorts and continuity and fix a leak that's not there despite the car running fine and having no codes related to misses, fuel mixture, o2 sensors, idle air bypass, or any symptoms related to a vacuum leak other than a hissing noise. after removing the computer and testing the circuit I found nothing wrong. maybe it was intermittent, maybe there was an issue with the computers internal circuits some research suggested that was common on this model. either way cracking open a computer isn't always an option and after hours of work already in it testing a replacement computer was something we didn't want to do without a little more certainty. instead of changing the computer we applied for an exemption for the state inspection since a knock sensor isn't totally critical to the engine running well. but I still had a non leaking vacuum leak to trace down.

now I could have checked the circuit the first time but how common is a circuit problem that's not related to the bite marks you find? and I could have looked up common issues with the car and found that knock sensor codes that turn out to be related to the computers internal circuits are common and need a replacement computer but even then I'd have been skeptical about the problem because of the bite marks and hesitant to change the computer because of the cost. this job is one of those that would have been easier if the costs didn't have potential to go past the value of the car. it wouldn't have been difficult to make the decision to buy a computer if the car had any real value to the owner but I hate throwing money at things without evidence, a shop more eager to make money would have bought the computer without asking questions and handed the customer a bloated bill but very likely fixed the problem and if not they'd still get paid. so over analyzing things can hold things up and prevent progress. the thing is that it's a business and being sure of things doesn't make money.

 

[ChooChooMike]

Yeah, Wow!! As much as I hate going to a stealer, dunno where to find a good independent shop for my 4Runner. Guess I could Yelp it

Took my Toyota 4Runner in for oil change and they found a leaking CV boot on my front 4-wheel driver side 1/2 shaft. Ok, looked up parts, about $12-$20 for 2 new boots (inner/outer) and assembly straps, etc. Stealer wants about $525 to replace !!!! Said he'd give me a 10% AAA discount, so now it would only by $475 !! Sheeesssh ! They go by a book prices. So no matter if it takes 1/2-hour or 3 hours, the price is still the same.

Now looking into doing the work myself. That involves pulling the 1/2 shaft and putting new boots on, so it bit labor intensive. There's plenty of advice out on the net, so will post on those sites to get some idea of time/special tools (if any) involved. Of course can use a split boot too, then no removal of drive shaft, but not as reliable ...... sigh

Mike

 

[Swifty]

I'm glad that we are not the only country that gets ripped off , gave up taking cars to dealers years ago, they have apprentices do the work and charge for fully qualified mechanics. Take them to a local small mechanic now who I have learnt to trust.

Gave up working on car engines when all the emission control systems were put on them. Only do very minor maintenance now.

Paul.

 

[Path]

Mike,

Go for the split boot ... you can always peek at it once in while, save lot of frustration!

Pat H.

 

[cfellows]

I'm actually pretty happy with the new relationship I have with my local Nissan dealer. Turns out most of what they told me was wrong was actually what was wrong. I don't mind paying somebody $110 to pretty accurately diagnose my car's problems... that way I don't feel at all guilty about deciding whether I want to fix the problems myself or let the dealer do it.

I wound up doing all the repairs myself and the total cost, including the $110 diagnosis, was about $650.

One interesting note... I had taken the car to a local mechanic and he diagnosed the oil leak as a timing cover gasket leak which would be about $800 to repair. The dealer said no, it is a valve cover gasket leak. Even though the oil was dripping from around the timing gear cover, he traced the leak further up the engine to the valve cover. Turns out the dealer was right. So instead of $800 which wouldn't have fixed the problem, a $25 Autozone valve cover gasket set took care of it.

If the car comes up with another problem that I can't diagnose, I'll be more than happy to pay the dealer to tell me what it is.

Chuck

 

[Gordon]

With the new electronics on cars now it is hard for the owner to completely diagnose the problem. What I have found is I can do some internet searching and find the most likely by using common sense and some experience. I then purchase the parts and start working my way through the most likely causes. In every case I have managed to solve the problem long before I have reached the cost of the mechanics estimate. Also I can make judgment calls like the $1000 ten year old car does not need the 100,000 mile warranty parts at three times the price of the 10,000 mile parts. You can find instructions and videos for almost every repair on line.

 

[ShopShoe]

I have lost most of my desire to work on the newer vehicles, but still like to tinker with my older "toys." The problem is that my 60+ year old eyes need trifocals and trifocals make it difficult to see some small fastener or electrical connector through the maze of hoses and brackets, let alone try to use six or seven linkages and adapters with the socket wrench to move a fastener 1/16 of a turn at a time.

I do have the option of using a very nice scanner from my local auto parts store: 48 hours for free if I pay a deposit on my charge card. Of course I support them by buying from them even if a big box store is cheaper. I will not mention them by name here as I don't know how prevalent this practice is. I have "re-diagnosed" a few problems with the scanner when things were still "not right" after I paid someone. I considered buying my own scanner, but I am no longer doing much auto work and I have filled a couple of drawers in my shop with "special tools" for cars I owned years ago.

As an aside, I also found out scanner link cables are available with laptop software to turn your own computer into a diagnostic scanner, even for MACs.

Newer cars aside, I still enjoy modifying or even making parts to keep old ones running. Now that I have a lathe and mill it is fun to solve my own problems: Order a bearing and seal and repair a water pump that hasn't been available since 1975. No carb Jet, make one. Fuel-guage sender broken, wind new sensor coil and machine linkage. Etc, Etc.

--ShopShoe

 

[windy]

In the UK when I was working for a Volvo main dealer on bodywork they got prosecuted for charging genuine part prices on pattern parts.
That Volvo dealer had an investigation by the Inland Revenue and got what he disserved.
If you find a good car mechanic that charges reasonable support him.
I run about in an old 1990 car with very little electronics so most repairs can be done by myself if the weathers fine.

Windy

 

[ChooChooMike]

Go for the split boot ... you can always peek at it once in while, save lot of frustration!

Pat,

I have used the split boot on other cars before. Makes it MUCH simpler to replace the offending boot. Don't have $500 right now. It was a pretty slow day at the stealer last week and seemed to be trolling for work to do. Granted this is a legitimate problem that I need to fix.

Mike