Building a ceramic gas burner

[arttext]

Currently I have a large 1.5 liter boiler feeding my stationary twin engine. The boiler is heated by a gas burner (not more than semi circle container with holes drilled in it). But the current burner doesn't really cut it, it runs through a reduction valve on the gas tank (50mg). So I want to replace the burner and thinking of a ceramic burner, so it can use the full pressure of the gas tank hence more heat and more steam. But it needs to be larger (about 6"x 4") than any size available. I read here and there about building one's own. Any plans, experiences or thoughts about this?

(About the images, the boiler, in the meantime, has been 'restored' with new appendages (valves, whistle, a fresh coat of heat resistant paint and properly tied to the fire box with brass strips, a chimney and smoke box have been attached etc.etc. And right now I'm machining a feeder pump)

Ruud

 

[arttext]

What has the world come to when one googles 'how to make a ceramic gas burner' and 99% of what comes up is incense-, aroma and other frikking New Age stuff...?

Ruud

 

[AUTO_XX]

Could you use the guts out of a catalytic converter? Talk to your muffler guy and he will likely part with an old cat for $X/lb I used one for a butane camp stove a few years ago and it worked very well to keep the pots clean.

 

[chipenter]

Stuarts catalogue shows some burners , hope it is some use to you ,

View attachment Gas-Supply-Burners.pdf.pdf

 

[Sshire]

This looks, suspiciously, like the top of a ceramic gas burner.
It is a standard jeweler's soldering pad and should be available in most parts of the world.
Although I haven't tried it, I've heard from reliable sources that they cut easily.

http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/424-351.html

The correctly sized jet, an air adjustment tube and you should be steaming.

 

[doubletop]

Ruud

You've come to the right place. These posts are already on the site. Like you I was starting out and seeking information, all I found is contained in these threads.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f42/poker-burner-8400/

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f26/ceramic-gas-burners-locos-10137/

Hope that is of some help

Pete

 

[doubletop]

(About the images, the boiler, in the meantime, has been 'restored' with new appendages (valves, whistle, a fresh coat of heat resistant paint and properly tied to the fire box with brass strips, a chimney and smoke box have been attached etc.etc. And right now I'm machining a feeder pump)

Ruud

And of course tested.......

Your boiler looks like an interesting antique which could well be outside of any acceptable safety standards for today. What is it made of? Copper, brass or steel. The safety valve wouldn't allow you to run it in public and even privatley could be in question.

Pete

 

[arttext]

And of course tested.......

Your boiler looks like an interesting antique which could well be outside of any acceptable safety standards for today. What is it made of? Copper, brass or steel. The safety valve wouldn't allow you to run it in public and even privatley could be in question.

Pete

Sorry about you being wrong: It's made of steel, officially pressure (water of course) tested at 8 bar and certified to run at 2,3 bar (the max. pressure read-out). All according to to EU standards. And the safety valve is simply the most basic (and thus trustworthy design) with no vulnerable mechanical parts.
But thank you for your consideration.

Ruud

 

[arttext]

To all: thank you for all answers. I'm going to study them carefully. Just as an object to try out I purchased a used ceramic burner plate coming from a scrapped central heating unit, for next to nothing today. I think I will start with it and see where it brings me. The plan is to build a box (brass or copper) under it, a gas inlet in the box. My guess the variables are the size of the holes in the inlet and the height of the aforementioned box. The burner exist of two parts. On top the ceramics plate and bottom with about 1" in between a perforated steel plate. It's been cut to measure already with a diamond saw, the one in the grinder was for the metal parts

Ruud

 

[arttext]

This looks, suspiciously, like the top of a ceramic gas burner.
It is a standard jeweler's soldering pad and should be available in most parts of the world.
Although I haven't tried it, I've heard from reliable sources that they cut easily.

http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/424-351.html

The correctly sized jet, an air adjustment tube and you should be steaming.

Looking very good indeed...and it triggered something else. From now on instead of using a fireproof oven brick to solder on I can use the remainder of the CHU burner to that purpose.... THX

 

[arttext]

Ruud

You've come to the right place. These posts are already on the site. Like you I was starting out and seeking information, all I found is contained in these threads.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f42/poker-burner-8400/

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f26/ceramic-gas-burners-locos-10137/

Hope that is of some help

Pete

The second link I already visited before posting here, but it's more specialized to loc's. The burner in the first link however looks, although not being ceramic, interesting too.

Ruud

 

[arttext]

So if I am correct and after studying all the available evidence there are three critical parameters.

1. The height (length and width are defined by the size of the ceramics) of the burner box.
2. The size and diameter of the nozzle (pipe)
3. The size of the hole in the gas jet

Will all of this be trial and error or is there more to go on in terms of dimensions, standards etc?

Somebody, some time ago told me that model building is not entirely though mainly improvisation. It came to mind again...


Ruud

 

[arttext]

It took me some time: very busy at my Model Building Club working on different projects, driving 7 1/4" live steam locomotives on Sundays at our track etc.etc.
After weeks of tinkering with propane nozzles with a different diameter and air inlet holes I finally got the ceramic burner to deliver enough energy (4 Kw) with a 0.8 mm propane nozzle to supply the needed amount of steam for my live steam engine. Except for the propane nozzle and rivets everything is scrap heap material. The ceramic surface measures 90 x 170 mm. I had to cover the original (holed) bottom of the burner box since the (heavier than air) propane fell through it and caused little blowouts every time.
So now I consider myself an aspiring expert on DIY ceramic burners...
(later this week I will post a little video, when everything is finalized)

 

[Lawijt]

Wow , that is really a BIG burner.

 

[arttext]

Wow , that is really a BIG burner.

For a really big boiler....and a really inefficient but beautiful twin steam engine...

 

[Mechanicboy]

I can see there is maybe too little air hole and too short length of the brass pipe. The ceramic burner need much air and high gas velocity to prevent burn back of the flame. Burn back is the worst you can get if too little air/ low gas velocity or it will burn inside the ceramic burner. Also the cause is slow air/gas mix into the burner to make burn back.

The air hole is not correct drilled out far away from gas nozzle as the photo is showed above, better to have air hole near gas nozzle with long pipe after air hole to make high gas velocity and better mixing of air/gas before entering into camber of ceramic burner.

 

[Mechanicboy]

Here is my pic of ceramic burner + boiler in the tug boat.

 

[arttext]

I can see there is maybe too little air hole and too short length of the brass pipe. The ceramic burner need much air and high gas velocity to prevent burn back of the flame. Burn back is the worst you can get if too little air/ low gas velocity or it will burn inside the ceramic burner. Also the cause is slow air/gas mix into the burner to make burn back.

The air hole is not correct drilled out far away from gas nozzle as the photo is showed above, better to have air hole near gas nozzle with long pipe after air hole to make high gas velocity and better mixing of air/gas before entering into camber of ceramic burner.

Non of it is a problem since you have to count in the length of the nozzle pipe too, which normally fits snugly into the larger brass pipe. And the place of the nozzle is adjustable within the larger pipe. The holes (4) can't be bigger/more holes or there won't be any pipe left. Last but not least: Pudding/Eating: it burns rather well with a nice blue flame and no yellow tops (so the gas/air mixture is fine), the pressure from the nozzle is good enough to prevent any backfire. I tested it for two hours continuously.

 

[Mechanicboy]

Pudding/Eating: it burns rather well with a nice blue flame and no yellow tops (so the gas/air mixture is fine),

Not blue flame only, the cheramic tile must be glowing and give good heat radiation. In case not whole ceramic tile is not glowing, mount the baffle inside the burner to make whole ceramic tile glowing due high air/gas velocity can not distribute the whole burner, just for a small place in the ceramic tile is glowing while the rest of the ceramic tile is not glowing.

In my burner has the baffle inside to help the air/gas mix to spread overall inside and give the whole ceramic tile glowing. The air hole is larger than tube who has 7 mm diameter inside. The burner has 75 mm diameter ceramic burner + 0.2 mm gas nozzle.

Post the pic of your ceramic burner under use.

 

[arttext]

Not blue flame only, the cheramic tile must be glowing and give good heat radiation. In case not whole ceramic tile is not glowing, mount the baffle inside the burner to make whole ceramic tile glowing due high air/gas velocity can not distribute the whole burner, just for a small place in the ceramic tile is glowing while the rest of the ceramic tile is not glowing.

In my burner has the baffle inside to help the air/gas mix to spread overall inside and give the whole ceramic tile glowing. The air hole is larger than tube who has 7 mm diameter inside. The burner has 75 mm diameter ceramic burner + 0.2 mm gas nozzle.

Post the pic of your ceramic burner under use.

We're talking totally different ceramics, your tiny thin ceramic tile is indeed meant to glow partially, mine on the other hand comes from a central heating unit,, measures 90 x 170 mm, is 20mm thick (only the ceramics, not the complete burner) and was never meant to glow but distribute evenly tiny blue flames in the unit. So this discussion is pointless as we are comparing apples to oranges.