British 0-4-0 Toy Locomotive: he said

[zeeprogrammer]

Robert! How are you?

 

[Foozer]

Hiya Robert! Haven't seen you around for a couple of weeks. (Glad you're here!)

Dean

Dean, Zee

Doing fine, think, err, sure moving was a mistake, cant find anything and the idea of redoing a workshop in what is now a clutter trap is GRRR. But a few dozen more trips to the dumps and all will start to take shape. Funny how much JUNK one collects over the years. Need a 300 gallon water tank left over from the Y2K days? It'll be on the corner with a FREE sign on it

Robert

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Well I went and tried the isopropyl alcohol...

It worked great. A short video...



I also have lamp oil and denatured alcohol. I may get some bunsen burners and do a comparison, but don't count on it. ;D

No smell to speak of until the wicks died. Even then it wasn't bad.

This is the 2nd burn. The 1st burn lasted about 5 minutes and then went out. I thought I'd filled it enough as there was alcohol leaking out of the burners. But I think I had the wicks wrong and it just wicked out.

The 2nd burn last 22 minutes. That should be well enough.

Good old physics reminded me of a few things I need to consider...

If you look at the video, the burners are level with, if not just higher than the bottom of the tank. So not all the fuel could get to the burners. (After the video I put it at more of a slant and that helped.) I can bend them down a bit too, but have to be careful if the tank level is higher.

Secondly, you might recall that the funnel is too low. As a result, it sticks into the fuel tank too far so you can't fill it all the way. I could fill from one of the burners but I'm thinking of drilling a small vent hole in the top/rear for air that I can plug before firing.

I haven't done the research yet, but I'm wondering which of the mentioned fuels burn hotter.

Still a long way to go. I need to build a stationary track with idler wheels so I can run the loco in one place. I also need to fix the one stretcher that the pivot pins attached to. And there's still quite a bit of fiddling to get it to run smooth.

Woo woo.

 

[Deanofid]

Fire!
Yes, woo woo, Zee.

In my burners, the denatured seems to work best, and will get water boiling faster than 91% or the 70% iso. Probably because it doesn't have to evaporate away all the water that is present in the other two.

Keep your denatured caped. It will pull water out of the air, or anywhere else it can get it. I'm not certain, but I suppose the other kinds will too.

I forget, what kind of wicks did you use? (They work well!)
I have some cotton round type, and some flat kerosene wick. The flat kind, cut in half and rolled up works very well.

Dean

 

[mklotz]

Comparative enthalpy of combustion figures...

Methanol - 22.7 kJ/g
Ethanol - 29.7 kJ/g
Propanol - 33.6 kJ/g (Isopropyl is 2-propanol)

So *pure* isopropyl has a bit more heat content but the off-the-shelf stuff is diluted with water.

If the denaturing is done by adding just enough methanol to easily-made ethanol to make it poisonous, it's very likely that the mix has more heat content than the diluted isopropyl.

 

[Deanofid]

So, it kind of looks like the 91% iso and the denatured could well put out a fairly similar amount of heat.
Wonderfully inaccurate Wiki says denatured is generally made of 90% ethanol, 10% methanol,
but may have trace "other stuff".
It would seem that denatured would be hotter, because it is all some kind of alcohol, but the 91% iso is
hotter before they put the water in.

One plus for the 91% iso is it's available almost any place that sells pharmacy items. You don't have to
hunt up a paint store.

Whatever it may be, alky lamps work really well for boiling water!

Thanks for the comparison, Marv.

Dean

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Zee---Back in the day, I used to make a little moonshine. It burned with a clear blue corona---no yellow to the flame at all. I'm not sure what "proof" it was-----bet it woulda ran your train in fine style.---Brian

 

[Kermit]

Comparative enthalpy of combustion figures...

Methanol - 22.7 kJ/g
Ethanol - 29.7 kJ/g
Propanol - 33.6 kJ/g (Isopropyl is 2-propanol)

So *pure* isopropyl has a bit more heat content but the off-the-shelf stuff is diluted with water.

If the denaturing is done by adding just enough methanol to easily-made ethanol to make it poisonous, it's very likely that the mix has more heat content than the diluted isopropyl.

I'm surprised Marv didn't include the Calorific value of the Paraffin fuels. Which are pretty close to twice the value of the Methanol. Lot's more heat per unit volume, just be sure it gets plenty of air to the wick or you'll get a nasty black soot. And if you get the cheap not fully deodorized stuff, your nose will certainly complain.


Can't wait for your first completed run, after all the trials are finished.
Kermit

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks for the information and support...Dean, Marv, Brian, and Kermit.

Back in the day, I used to make a little moonshine. It burned with a clear blue corona---no yellow to the flame at all. I'm not sure what "proof" it was-----bet it woulda ran your train in fine style.---Brian

Maybe...but somebody else would have to run the train. I'd be in no shape.

 

[tmuir]

Hi,
the best stuff I've found for wicks is the fibreglass rope that is used to seal the doors on slow combustion fire places.
You can get it with a woven core that makes it thicker, or without which makes it easier to stuff it in.
I've got some of both types and they both work equally aswell as each other and best of all the ends don't burn or melt when the fire starts to die out so they last a very long time.
You can pick the rope up off ebay.

Look forward to seeing the loco running.

 

[doubletop]

Well...I might have a boiler.

Thanks to Pete's suggestion (as well as everyone else's help on the valve etc.)...I got the mountain bike shock pump set up with the adaptor I made last night.

Pumped to about 57 psi or thereabouts. Boiler will (should) operate at about 15 psi.

Carl

I'm not sure whats happening, notifications seem to have dried up for me so i missed this.

Glad to see the pressure testing method worked for you. Cheapest test rig I'm aware of.

You must be one the home straight by now

Pete

 

[Deanofid]

Hi,
the best stuff I've found for wicks is the fibreglass rope that is used to seal the doors on slow combustion fire places.

Tony, will this stuff work in a spirit burner, too? I mean the kind of burner that looks like a rectangular
block with a screen in the top part.
I'm working on one for one of my boilers, and need a suggestion for what to put under the screen. Seems like cotton would work, but if it gets dry I think it would make a mess.

Dean

 

[xo18thfa]

Playing with fire, huh Carl? Looking very good. 22 minute burn time is super, they don't get much better then that. Alcohol wick burners are kind of an art. Getting the wicks to the correct height and shaped properly. Also how tight the wicks are packed in the burner tube. All things to practice.

What are you using for wick material? I use ordinary candle wick. Cut several and pack them in the burner tube. Candle wick works fine, but you can't let the tank run out of fuel. Other wise the wicks burner away.

A lot of Gauge 1 loco guys fire their engines with denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol from Home Depot or Lowe's works very well.

Most Gauge 1 live steamers put food coloring in their alcohol. 3 or 4 drops of red food color per gallon of fuel. Just enough to tint it. In the excitement of a run you don't want to accidentally fill the boiler with alcohol and the fuel tank with water. The engine won't work.

Another thing to think about is how to put the fire out. The best way is with a CO2 bicycle tire inflator. You can get them at any bicycle shop. They use regular BB gun CO2 cartridges. Give the fire a little shot of CO2 and out it goes. A regular BB gun cartridge give about 5 or 6 "toots".

It's looking real good. Can't wait to she her on the pike.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks tmuir. The kit came with cotton wick. As you point out, it burns up as it runs out.

Thanks Pete. A bit more yet to do.

Thanks Bob. I'll be trying the denatured alcohol too.

Hey Dean! Watcha working on?

 

[xo18thfa]

Thanks tmuir. The kit came with cotton wick. As you point out, it burns up as it runs out.

Thanks Pete. A bit more yet to do.

Thanks Bob. I'll be trying the denatured alcohol too.

Hey Dean! Watcha working on?

You are fast too Carl. You caught me in the middle of an edit.

 

[Deanofid]

Hey Dean! Watcha working on?

Oh, I have a brass boiler that I made years back. It works alright, but the three wick burner I have
for it has never done that good of a job. I'm just making what they usually call a meths burner for it.
They work like the lamp you made, on alcohol, but instead of wicks, they have an open slot with a
grate inside the opening. Under the grate is some kind of fabric that soaks up the alky, and it vaporizes
through the top slot. These burners look like a long narrow box, with a slot in the top.
I'm trying to figure out what other guys use for the alky soaker-upper fabric.

Dean

 

[doubletop]

Remember this from Firebird?

Rich then went on to make one. It maybe just what's needed here. And after 20 mins of searching found the thread (lots of good stuff can go missing very quickly on here)

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=9262.msg100469#msg100469

Gravity feed meths which heats the coil to help vaporize the meths and improve the burn.

Pete

 

[njl]

Dean, I think you can use cotton wool for this task. If I recall correctly I think that it what my Mamod steam engine used under the mesh.

Nick

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Glad you're busy Dean. ;D

Bob (and others): I'm using some cotton rope that came with the kit.

Thanks for the link Pete.

Nick: 'cotton wool'...hm...cotton from a plant, wool from sheep...so I had to look that up. The English language is so great. :big:

 

[Deanofid]

The English language is so great. :big:

Which English language?


And, thanks Nick and Pete.