Avoid discount_machine Ebay seller

[Davo J]

I read this thread and thought I hope I get my 4 power feed gears I ordered a week or so ago, LOL

I aways saw them on ebay but never bought from them, instead someone else and not for any reason. It was only recently I needed something and they sold it, so I contacted them about the no postage to Australia on ebay, they replied that there where to many postage problems to Australia, but I could buy through there shop? I did question why through the shop and not ebay but it was never answered.

Just a few weeks ago I stripped my knee power feed gear as I am doing mods to my machine and didn't have the power feed stops set up, it was one of those dumb moments where I could have kicked myself as I heard the motor spin fast, LOL. I have had the power feeds for 5-6 years and never damaged any of them.

Anyway I looked on google and Shars came up in the search for only $15 each (where others wanted $30+ dollars for one) wow what a great price so I ordered 4 but then was hit by $140 postage on the site, so I reduced it to one and it was still $90 postage.

I sent them an email and questioned them, a lady returned my email quickly saying they where sorry that USPS was not an option on the site for overseas customers at the moment and to make up my order and email it through asking for it to be sent USPS.

I did this as well as looking up USPS small flat rate boxes which where $25.95 and would fit 4 gears, so I asked for them to be sent in that and gave my email address for paypal payment.
It was not long before a invoice was sent and I paid the $85.95.
As I said above I am waiting for them to turn up, but going by the service I have received I expect I will have no problems.

I can understand your frustration but with them offering you a refund it sounds like an honest mistake and at least they never held you to the sale. If you really want a chuck like was falsely advertised contact then to see if they have one, if not look elsewhere with your refunded money.

I remember a few years back the owner was on a few forums like CNC zone, (Sol I think his name is) and he was trying to supply what people wanted as in quality vises etc and was asking for feed back. I am not talking about the base model vises but the next step up and I do think they are doing there best as not many owners get on forums as you never know which way it will go.

At the end of the day we all make mistakes (think of the thousands of products Shars are selling daily at a price we all like) and just because someone made one mistake (and offered a solution with a refund) shouldn't mean we all steer clear of them. I have a decent scrap bin, should I not machine any more because I made a few (hundred, LOL) mistakes?

I have heard bad reports from all of the sellers listed in this thread and more, but on the other hand I have heard many many good reports so I would buy off any of them.

Dave

 

[Mbusha]

Well, this is a passionate thread.

I am new to home machining, and very close to retirement. As such, I certainly cannot afford to use the commercial suppliers I have dealt with for years (at work) or make too many mistakes. I have, for my shop, been using Little Machine Shop, Grizzly, Northern and various Amazon companies simply from not knowing where to shop. As I have been reading this thread, googling the names and making notes I have found some really useful information.

Huge thanks to ALL who have posted. Thm:

 

[dman]

lol I was eyeing that exact chuck recently for the same reason. I want something I can make soft jaws for. good thing I decided to focus on my mill for now. if I bought it I'd really be pissed.

it can be a real pain dealing directly with China and I avoid it. I hope not to offend any Chinese but I've had bad experiences with sellers in China. it hasn't been all bad, I mean the stepper motors I bought seem good and I had a smooth transaction but I've had nightmares in the past buying electronics like replacement tft panels for cell phones. it blows my mind that they will put up an English ad and website and put a non English speaking person in charge of customer service. I once put a new amoled screen in my phone and it was defective. when I contacted the seller they wanted the bad panel back before they sent another... wtf? it wasn't a return it was a replacement and simply removing it would destroy the glass. not to mention it took 2 months to receive the first one. I naturally refused, why send it back to let them throw it in the trash while I sit with no cell phone? made no sense. so I offered as a show of good faith pictures of the defect to prove I wasn't scamming them. they agreed to "make the exception" if I removed the dispute from PayPal. well this crosses lines no seller should cross. that's for buyer protection, if they want good feedback then test the product and hire reps that speak the languages the ads represent. well unfortunately reluctantly I did remove the dispute because I thought we had an agreement and an email record of it. so I'm now waiting another 2months for my screen and still not here. I contact them and they say its a Chinese holiday will get to it after. so more time goes and I ask for a shipping confirmation and they ask me if I sent the old one back yet!!!! wtf we had a deal and I dropped the dispute. now I have nothing! i went back and forth sending the email records showing the conversation and never got anywhere. I'm not sure they understood what the old emails were even about to begin with since there English was very broken. so I was out a decent amount of money and no way left to resolve it I wound up replacing the whole phone because I couldn't find a non Chinese source for the part other than sending it to the manufacturer and let them repair it which would mean I'd need a temporary replacement anyway.

it might seem reasonable for them to want accountability of the item but why waist the shipping? and if I wanted to scam someone I could have sent them the screen I removed. I don't know how much of this was an issue of procedures which could have been resolved if there were no language barrier or if they willfully said what they had to to get the dispute dropped. either way, intentional or not they violated pay pal policy asking for a dispute to be dropped prior to a resolution and the experience was bad so I now try to stick to sellers I can communicate with on a satisfactory level.

 

[aarggh]

dman, what you could have done is leave them a negative, they hate that with a passion. On the occasion I've had an issue, I push back really, really hard well within the paypal claim period, and if it approaches the end of the period I just lodge a claim and explain I needed to just "get it in" to protect myself, and keep on negotiating with them to resolve it. I also make sure I leave enough time so I can leave a negative if I have to. But having said that, almost all of my transactions are from China, with US second, UK third, and US is the one I've had most issues with over the years with faulty and amazingly poorly packed goods that inevitably ended up broken. Over the last decade I'm out of pocket around $500 for US goods, and maybe $30 for Chinese goods, which is amazing as I get so much stuff from China the law of averages states their must be some loss or damage, but every seller I've dealt with, has always sent a replacement or a fast refund.

cheers, Ian

 

[kd0afk]

I'll see what the chuck is like when i get it. I'll probably wind up keeping it and buying one with two part jaws. It's just irritating.

 

[Davo J]

My power feed gears turned up yesterday.

Dave

 

[RCW]

Some months ago I bought a Shars 1/2 inch drill chuck with an integral NMTB 40 shank from this vendor. It was far cheaper than anyone else, and I was apprehensive. When it arrived I was relieved. It has almost no run out, and the fit and finish are superb. I am very pleased with it.

I also bought a DTI from them. It works. Doesn't look bad. It isn't Bestest but it cost about 1/5 of what Brown & Sharpe charges.

Recently I ordered a really cheap NMTB 40 2" boring head set from a similar vendor. [That is a wonderful taper, but tends to be expensive.] The shank was superb. The boring head was solid and usable. Was the finish as slick as Criterion? Of course not! But it will work fine in my shop, and at $118, with free shipping, I saved more than enough to buy a set of ER 32 or ER 40 collets with an NT 40 holder, (although these will probably come from Tools4Cheap).

If you want the best, go buy a Pratt & Burnerd or Bison. If that's outta reach, you'll have to live with something less. It is not realistic to try to buy a Rolls Royce at a Plymouth price. I would love to buy all name brands--Bestest, Criterion, Monarch, etc. And more than once I have kicked myself for purchasing something at Horror Fright. But generally speaking, we get what we pay for--and sometimes a little bit more. I think all of us face a dilemma each time we purchase something. And online is often the only option.

I am struggling with a decision on a vise. All the guys on the Chaski forum say to get a used Kurt. But even used Kurts cost a good portion of what I paid for my nice, old mill. That seems unreasonable. Suggestions welcome.

Perhaps we should scream only when what we receive is really inferior and the merchant refuses to refund our money.

Having said that, does anyone have any experience with onlineseller68 or niuniucme?

 

[aarggh]

Having said that, does anyone have any experience with onlineseller68 or niuniucme?

I have dealt with both and found them perfectly fine to deal with. niuniucme in particular I found very helpful and more than decent on shipping. I bought a great quality vise off him, and got it landed for probably 1/3 of the cost locally for the same item.

One thing I will say, so far as vises go, they really are worth spending good money on to get a good one, otherwise you'll be pulling out your hair. I thought at first "how different could a cheap one be?", famous last words. If you can't accurately square things up to machine, and have faith your vise is well made, you'll spend all your time trying to achieve a better result than is easily possible with a cheap vise. Simple things like jaw lift when tightening can drive you insane.

I went through 3 cheaper vises before I realised there's no getting away from it, and then bought 2 top of the range Vertex's. Money well spent.

Bear in mind, the sort of vises that are easily available to you guys in the States for $300-$500 shipped, are around 3 times that here in OZ. In fact after kids, a car and a mortgage, the cost of a good machinists vise probably rates right up there!

Buy the best vise you can for your money, and buy it to be the one you WANT, not the one for right now.

cheers,
Ian

 

[aonemarine]

Ive seen alot of people use these vises. http://www.glacern.com/gsv_690 Cant say much about what I dont know.

 

[RCW]

I have dealt with both and found them perfectly fine to deal with. niuniucme in particular I found very helpful and more than decent on shipping. I bought a great quality vise off him, and got it landed for probably 1/3 of the cost locally for the same item.

One thing I will say, so far as vises go, they really are worth spending good money on to get a good one, otherwise you'll be pulling out your hair. I thought at first "how different could a cheap one be?", famous last words. If you can't accurately square things up to machine, and have faith your vise is well made, you'll spend all your time trying to achieve a better result than is easily possible with a cheap vise. Simple things like jaw lift when tightening can drive you insane.

I went through 3 cheaper vises before I realised there's no getting away from it, and then bought 2 top of the range Vertex's. Money well spent.

Bear in mind, the sort of vises that are easily available to you guys in the States for $300-$500 shipped, are around 3 times that here in OZ. In fact after kids, a car and a mortgage, the cost of a good machinists vise probably rates right up there!

Buy the best vise you can for your money, and buy it to be the one you WANT, not the one for right now.

cheers,
Ian

Love your Charlie Brown forum name!

Thanks, Ian, for the information. Did you happen to order this vise? http://www.ebay.com/itm/310371390946?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 If so, what did you think of it? If not, does it look OK?

Many people have given me advice similar to yours. However, most say "the only vise to buy is Kurt." A few, like the post below yours, recommend Glacern, but they are about as expensive as Kurt, and there was at least one bad post about them somewhere. :wall: (One bad post, alone, is not a deal breaker.) I'll check out Vertex.

Lynne and I wanted to move to Australia when we were young. Now I appears the Aussie government is as over zealous and over protective as everwhere else. And almost every post from Down Under complains about prices. Sorry things have moved that way there--or anywhere else.

What are you building?

Bob

 

[RCW]

Ive seen alot of people use these vises. http://www.glacern.com/gsv_690 Cant say much about what I dont know.

Thanks. I appreciate your suggestion and your candor. I'm an expert "not knower!"

Bob

 

[kd0afk]

I received it in the mail today. It was not the model that was pictured or described. It has a smaller through hole and it isn't front mounted like the photo, it also didn't include the allen wrench and it looks like they switched the one I ordered for the one I got, the correct catalog number is marked out and the number of the one they sent me is written in in sharpie. I've cooled down and I'm not yet ready to declare "shenanigans" so I have sent them an email asking them to send me the correct model in exchange and make it right. If they make good on this I will let bygones be bygones and might buy from them again.

 

[aarggh]

Love your Charlie Brown forum name!

Thanks, Ian, for the information. Did you happen to order this vise? http://www.ebay.com/itm/310371390946?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 If so, what did you think of it? If not, does it look OK?

Many people have given me advice similar to yours. However, most say "the only vise to buy is Kurt." A few, like the post below yours, recommend Glacern, but they are about as expensive as Kurt, and there was at least one bad post about them somewhere. :wall: (One bad post, alone, is not a deal breaker.) I'll check out Vertex.

Lynne and I wanted to move to Australia when we were young. Now I appears the Aussie government is as over zealous and over protective as everwhere else. And almost every post from Down Under complains about prices. Sorry things have moved that way there--or anywhere else.

What are you building?

Bob

Hi Bob,

I actually bought what looks to be the same series vise but mine was a double, fixed block in the middle and both ends clamp two pieces simultaneously. Really, really good quality, especially for the price. Not as good as the Vertex's of course, they are just superb Taiwanese manufacturing at it's best in my opinion. Kurt's, Glacerns, etc, would be awesome to own, but in OZ it would be impossible. If it wasn't for a local suplier who apparently took pity on me, I wouldn't have my beautiful Vertex's (photo of my daughter looking suitably impressed!).

Even Hare and Forbes, our only real commercial/consumer supplier has vises that are priced astronomically, but even though they 'look" identical to Vertex, the salesguy confirmed they were a cheaper Chinese version and don't have anywhere the tolerance. Pricing here sucks big time, but at least we have our Chinese friends for the mundane items at really cheap prices. The really funny thing is that even though we are so close to Asia, quite often the shipping from Asia to the US is considerably cheaper than we can get it to OZ!

Not really getting time to build much now, we're just coming out of what seems a 2-3 month heat wave, and I'm busy building my man cave so I can get cracking on some CNC builds, and steam engines! Got a set of castings coming from Myfordboy (brilliant guy) of the Essex Hot Air Engine, so I'm really looking forward to that one later!

cheers, Ian

 

[Swifty]

Hi Ian,
I sure hope that we are coming out of our heat wave, had enough of this hot weather. Doesn't allow much work to be done in the workshop.

Paul.

 

[aarggh]

Hi Ian,
I sure hope that we are coming out of our heat wave, had enough of this hot weather. Doesn't allow much work to be done in the workshop.

Paul.

It's been murder for what seems ages now Paul, and I'm so damn far behind on my workshop reno. I went out last Fri and Sat to do some work, but after only a few minutes I was covered in dust and pouring sweat so much, the eyes were stinging and my skin was crawling. It wouldn't be so bad if it at least cooled off at night so you could get some sleep.

cheers, Ian

 

[kd0afk]

To bring this thing to a close, shars offered me a refund if I send the thing back. I told them I wanted the one I paid for in exchange. They refunded my money anyway and let me keep the chuck. I guess its more important for them to give something away than make sure the customer gets the thing they ordered. Im not complaining about the outcome, I'll take a free tool any day of the week but it makes me seem greedy and Im not. What concerns me is that the haven't fixed the ad so someone else is going to go through the same thing.

 

[Mosey]

I had some problems with Shars years ago, and spoke to a "Cindy" on the phone. I think she may be Cindy Shars. She was the Boss. Anyway, I think that most of the problem was due to their expectation of being ripped off by the American customer, asking for something they didn't pay for. I think that is what they expect. So, they protect themselves by absolutely refusing to pay for shipping back to them, regardless of who is at fault. There is some fairness in that.
I don't think they want to rip you off, just do not fully understand what you may be requesting. Obviously their ads could use some native editing.
I continue to buy from them when the cheap goods out-way the potential difficulties.
They do not understand the law of the Uniform Commercial Code, or New Jersey Consumer Protection laws, either.

They are no longer so cheap on many things, either.
This is my opinion, worth what you paid for it, nothing.
Mosey

 

[jgedde]

Some months ago I bought a Shars 1/2 inch drill chuck with an integral NMTB 40 shank from this vendor. It was far cheaper than anyone else, and I was apprehensive. When it arrived I was relieved. It has almost no run out, and the fit and finish are superb. I am very pleased with it.

I also bought a DTI from them. It works. Doesn't look bad. It isn't Bestest but it cost about 1/5 of what Brown & Sharpe charges.

Recently I ordered a really cheap NMTB 40 2" boring head set from a similar vendor. [That is a wonderful taper, but tends to be expensive.] The shank was superb. The boring head was solid and usable. Was the finish as slick as Criterion? Of course not! But it will work fine in my shop, and at $118, with free shipping, I saved more than enough to buy a set of ER 32 or ER 40 collets with an NT 40 holder, (although these will probably come from Tools4Cheap).

If you want the best, go buy a Pratt & Burnerd or Bison. If that's outta reach, you'll have to live with something less. It is not realistic to try to buy a Rolls Royce at a Plymouth price. I would love to buy all name brands--Bestest, Criterion, Monarch, etc. And more than once I have kicked myself for purchasing something at Horror Fright. But generally speaking, we get what we pay for--and sometimes a little bit more. I think all of us face a dilemma each time we purchase something. And online is often the only option.

I am struggling with a decision on a vise. All the guys on the Chaski forum say to get a used Kurt. But even used Kurts cost a good portion of what I paid for my nice, old mill. That seems unreasonable. Suggestions welcome.

Perhaps we should scream only when what we receive is really inferior and the merchant refuses to refund our money.

Having said that, does anyone have any experience with onlineseller68 or niuniucme?

Glacern Machine Tools offers a more affordable equivalent to the Kurt vise... I have one and love it...

John

 

[Davo J]

To bring this thing to a close, shars offered me a refund if I send the thing back. I told them I wanted the one I paid for in exchange. They refunded my money anyway and let me keep the chuck. I guess its more important for them to give something away than make sure the customer gets the thing they ordered. Im not complaining about the outcome, I'll take a free tool any day of the week but it makes me seem greedy and Im not. What concerns me is that the haven't fixed the ad so someone else is going to go through the same thing.

Good to hear, like you said not the outcome you where after but a generous one on there part.

Dave

 

[Davo J]

Shars have vises in the $200 range that they guarantee accuracy, they are as copy of the Kurt design.

Dave