Are we the fringe?

[JorgensenSteam]

The younger generation seems to have been ruined on video games, iphones, and the internet.

When I was a kid, we did not have a working TV (tubes always burnt out), and the president's proposal of sending a man to the moon and returning him safely seemed like a wonderful idea, but a fairy tale for sure.

Many of my best toys were made from sticks of wood, baling wire, tin cans, cardboard boxes, and anything else we could scrounge up and tie together.

Imagination was the key then.
With the information overload from the internet, there is no hope for imagination, it all comes from the internet and movies now.

How do you get young people interested in building engines?
Take away their cell phone, electronic games, internet, computers, TV's, etc. and put them in a garage with some metal and machine tools.

Walla...

 

[GWRdriver]

This . . . has taken a few interesting turns.

Let me throw another turn at you . . . If we would all let go of the need to have someone else validate us, that is recognize, understand, praise, value, etc, what we do, then the whole notion of "being" anything (such as a fringe element) goes away. What you ask when you want someone to recognize and admire what you do is ask for validation, for them to tell you you are doing the right thing and doing it well. The problem with external validation is that first, in the end you are the one who decides for yourself if you are doing the right thing, you decide if you are "fringe" or not, and beyond that no one is obligated to provide you with validation, so as often as not the quest for external validation only leads to frustration and disappointment. Kind of like you are feeling now.

Now having said all that gobbledy-gook, do we all from time to time want and need to be appreciated, validated, for special skills and accomplishments and what we have chosen to do? Yes of course. The problem is, it may not come and the only option is to pat yourself on the back and take silent satisfaction in what you've done.

I would prefer not to call ourselves a fringe group, or something similar, rather I often refer to model engineering and what we do as a "highly specialize technical pursuit" which is exactly what it is and that being the case not everyone, in fact a relatively small percentile, in the grand scheme of things are capable of it. The disinterest and diversion some of you see (which I experience regularly) isn't actually disinterest . . . it's that they have no clue what you are doing and the skills required, and rather than admit that although educated, skilled, and accomplished in other areas, in this area they are entirely clueless and incapable and can't bring themselves to admit it.

I do agree that as the throw-away mentality becomes more pervasive there will be less and less understanding of what we do and why.

 

[gmac]

My view is a little different - I figure the right people wander in and hang around. The wrong one's quickly disappear. With a lot of my hobbies/interests I've seen so much ruined by the desire to promote/expand/popularize and suddenly people are showing up to be fashionable/be seen with the right crowd/make a profit etc. Those passionate about the subject end up having to go farther into the woods and build their own fort (remember when kids built those) :big:. Just pulling the cat's wiskers guys ;D

P.S. this is a great fort!

Cheers Garry

 

[steamer]

Ruthie

Let me throw another turn at you . . . If we would all let go of the need to have someone else validate us, that is recognize, understand, praise, value, etc, what we do, then the whole notion of "being" anything (such as a fringe element) goes away. What you ask when you want someone to recognize and admire what you do is ask for validation, for them to tell you you are doing the right thing and doing it well. The problem with external validation is that first, in the end you are the one who decides for yourself if you are doing the right thing, you decide if you are "fringe" or not, and beyond that no one is obligated to provide you with validation, so as often as not the quest for external validation only leads to frustration disappointment. Kind of like you are feeling now.

Now having said all that gobbledy-gook, do we all from time to time want and need to be appreciated, validated, for special skills and accomplishments and what we have chosen to do? Yes of course. The problem is, it may not come and the only option is to pat yourself on the back and take silent satisfaction in what you've done.

I would prefer not to call ourselves a fringe group, or something similar, rather I often refer to model engineering and what we do as a "highly specialize technical pursuit" which is exactly what it is and that being the case not everyone, in fact a relatively small percentile, in the grand scheme of things are capable of it. The disinterest and diversion some of you see (which I experience regularly) isn't actually disinterest . . . it's that they have no clue what you are doing and the skills required, and rather than admit that although educated, skilled, and accomplished in other areas, in this area they are entirely clueless and incapable!

Truth!

 

[panofish]

Machinists, Woodworkers, craftsmen, mechanics, do it yourselfers...
all are decreasing in this age of A.D.D., instant gratification, technology dependent... yet mechanically inept period.

Most people I know can't fix a leaky faucet, much less craft something.
There are still many mechanically inclined folks out there... it's just that the numbers are shrinking relative to decades past.

Thank goodness for the internet, because I don't have anyone in my circles that shares my passions... or do I... I live near Grand Blanc, Michigan BTW.

 

[90LX_Notch]

GWRdriver- You are correct to a point. But I want to share my passion for this hobby. I love it so much and it sucks that I can't find like minded people around me. The guys around here are into drinking beer and watching sports; that's about it. The fringe notion is that what we do is so far removed from people's scope that they can't appreciate it. Yet they are amazed at a guy who can do something with a ball on a TV screen.

 

[Captain Jerry]

I can usually find something to talk about with anyone. I love fishing and that covers a lot of people. I used to play golf and that works with some. Cooking and eating is almost universal so with those few topics I can get around most parties. But if I want to be left alone to contemplate my glass of (gin,bourbon,scotch) its easy to say something like "I was at the scrapyard this morning and .............."

Jerry

 

[Foozer]

"If we would all let go of the need to have someone else validate us,"

Nothing gets the "Bride" out of my hair quicker than holding up some piece of turned metal, and with ear to ear grin say "Look what I can Do!"

Validation is a wonderful thing

Robert

 

[steamer]

I gotta say I agree with you GMAC. We just need to do what we need to do....the right flock with congregate eventually.

Dave

 

[Ken I]

I guess every hobby, sport, pastime etc. is the fringe to those who have no interest in it.

Minority perhaps ?...

I get much the same thing as most of my hobbies are "fringe"

I restore old jukeboxes and valve amplifiers - you take a valve amp into a modern electronics shop and they wave a crucifix at you and scatter garlic as you are ushered out - dismissed as a dangerous nut ("Theres over 600VDC in there - it can kill you you know !"

I think that might also have something to do with it - we have become so safety conscious (no problem with that) that "dangerous" hobbies like operating "heavy machinery" and working with high voltages are just not something that one should do for recreational purposes.

Besides it looks like "work".

So instead they climb mountains, jump out of aeroplanes etc. etc.

Much safer.

Ken

 

[oilmac]

If this is The Fringe, Bring it on ! Nowadays i have folk all around me, who in this day & age are totally de-skilled, Many homes i know do not even have a screwdriver or a hammer, come to think on it many folks could not "Hammer a nail into a loaf of bread if they tried"
Gone by and large is the era of self sufficiency As well as that has gone the heavy engineering instinct which made the western world countries unique This was lost due to todays worship at the shrine of mammon

Saying all that the world would be a very boring place if every one was only interested in metal bashing, It takes all sorts, Although how i miss folks i could look up to many years ago, like my old technical drawing teacher Mr Brown, &the other many craftsmen i have acquainted in my three score &ten + years on earth

My workshop is my peaceful retreat Now where did i put my screwdriver ? ???

 

[Foozer]

If this is The Fringe,
Subject got me to take my little Lamina Flow engine over to a Buds house.
Requires no air or Steam so is good to do a "Show and Tell"

My "Treasure" apparently is but another's "ain't that cute" you spent how much on tools to make that? why thats Brew money buddy.
Course his kids thought it was fascinating, they couldn't figure out how it works.

Kids are the ones to get involved

Robert

 

[Blue_Rock]

Interesting questions and observations Notch. I get what you are saying about wanting to share your passion for your hobby but I suppose that home model engine machining is very much a niche pursuit. I guess the majority of people struggle to understand how machines work and also don’t have much of an interest in mechanical devices… as long as the car and lawn mower work then all is good.

I’m 50 years old and when I was a kid, it was little different than today regarding interest in mechanical oriented hobbies. Most kids did not have an interest in any of my hobbies, such as metal and woodwork, they would rather hang out, chase girls, play sport etc.

Like you, the majority of my friends and acquaintances are not at all interested in my hobby, they would rather talk sport, have a few drinks or shoot the breeze… if not all at the same time.

So I suppose not much has changed as they have aged, except that there is maybe a bit less doing and a bit more watching and talking.

A very positive thing that has happened over the intervening years is the advent of the Internet that has facilitated the growth places like ours where new communities can flourish. Where like-minded people can hang out, share experiences and show their stuff to those who will appreciate it.

If you are lucky enough to have a model engineers’ club in your region, then I suppose that could be a way to meet like-minded people and talk about machines, have a few drinks or shoot the breeze…

 

[ConductorX]

I have always been mechanical. My first jobs were always related to mechanical things. I worked in a plastic bottle plant keeping the machines running making milk bottles and bleach bottles. I worked as a compressor operator, then mechanic (5000 HP compressor with 9 throws). Later I learned the secrets of keeping the magic smoke in wires and pneumatic instruments.

I have several friends that don't have any kind of hobby or interest other than the next TV show or sporting event. I feel it is thier loss not mine. I am always learning and always exploring new things. That is how I ended up here looking for new challenges.

I may never achieve the creation of the beautiful engines that are done here but I am sure I will learn something new.

"G"

 

[Dave G]

Fringe? Different, absolutely. In the last 2 months I have fixed both the washing machine and the clothes dryer after they both refused to do their job. Both fixes were minor and the machines work fine now. On both instances, my better half thought it was an opportunity to add some debt to the credit card and some pretty new appliances to the home. Well Cheapo Dave, as I'm known to my wifes coworkers, put a stop to that.

I think it has something to do with accomplishments. I get a kick out of fixing something that others would have scrapped and returning it to usefullness. This is something I have done since childhood. My father would drag anything home for me to fix that he could get for free. I owe him a great deal for seeing this in me as a youngster and for channeling my talents. Plus he didn't ever have to buy a lawnmower. We always had a spare or 2.

I received a Tool&Die apprenticeship at 19 yrs old and was thrown into a world of individuals that had more knowledge than I could absorb. I worked with guys that had built top fuel dragsters, sextants, telescopes, etc. A challenge was greated with eagerness just for the learning experience by most.

It disheartens me to see that people don't take an interest in mechanical things anymore. When people ask me how I got to know so much, I just tell them I pay attention and leave it at that. I once had an older gentleman tell me the radial engine I had on display on my table at an engine show couldn't have been made by me, it just wasn't possible in his mind that an individual in his garage could do something like that. I just laughed and he went on his way. I have also met some very interesting and great people while displaying my engines so all is not lost.

My motivation for displaying my engines is to generate some interest in the mechanical trades for the younger generation. A few years ago I had a fellow who owns his own machine shop tell me that the reason that he choose the carrer path that he did was because when he was a teenager and was into fast cars as I was at the time also, and he used to hang around my shop that he always wanted to do the things I could do.

You probably won't reach everybody, in fact you might not reach many, but if you reach that one person and spark that interest then it has all been worthwhile. I will continue to display my engines and fix whatever comes my way as that is who I am, Cheapo Dave

 

[Captain Jerry]

I know I'm not the oldest guy on here so maybe some of you remember the shortages of WWII. Anything that broke, had to be fixed. All scrap metal had already gone to the war effort, so something to fix it with had to be taken from something else.

My dad was not an engineer by trade or training but he kept things working. I remember him saying "The guy that made this thing isn't any smarter than me." One thing that I learned from him at the time is that most things don't really need all the screws that are in them. If he needed a screw to fix something, he could find one doing a less important job and re-assign it.

I knew I had gained some measure of respect when he let me pull apart the engine of his 1953 Olds Rocket 88 to remove the hydraulic lifters and replace the two bad ones. He could afford to take it to the shop but it was summer and I was out of school. I was 16 yrs old and the car had to be running in two days for his turn in the car pool. I had it running in plenty of time and he never even asked me if I had any problems.

Genetics are a bit of a crap shoot but I think I scored pretty good.

Jerry

 

[Sshire]

I sent a few pictures of my current project (Elmer's 13) to my brother and my nephew.
My brother's "fringe" activity is bowl turning. (Tried that once; the bowl blank flew off the lathe and whizzed past my head. End of bowl turning). I got an email back with 15 questions about the engine. I sent him the drawings.
My nephew is an engineer with Rockwell. When I ask what he does I get "we blow things up."
He wanted to know how the valve timing works. Sent him the drawings also. Apparently not much got done at Rockwell the next day because his team was fascinated by the whole concept of small engines. They had no idea that people do this. Might have hooked a whole group of people on our "fringe" activities.
Just lucky I guess.

Best
Stan

 

[don-tucker]

I can relate to all that has been said,someone in work said to me" what's so good about making things" needless to say he worked in the office,told him if we were not making things he wouldn't have a job.
There are very few who take an interest in what I do,and I grab anyone who dares to even mention engineering,I have a friend who is a model engineer and my older brother ,who taught me all I know and that is it really,except this wonderfull forum.
This hobby has made me want to take apart and repair anything that half needs attending to,the down side is that my conversation is very limited,as you can probably tell.
Don

 

[Tin Falcon]

Jerry I am inspired by your story. I have never been one to dive deep into auto repair. starters alertanors brakes yes. enginine work not as much. My son broke the timing belt on his truck . He works with me full time and tore into it evenings and finished on saterday.
Tin

 

[Ken I]

This hobby has made me want to take apart and repair anything

I particularly enjoy repairing "sealed units" - generally gets the comment "how did you do that, its a sealed unit !"

My answer is invariably "What man can put together, he can render asunder."

The sermon usually ends there with a glazed over look of bovine indifference.

Ahh well.

Ken