Shows keep getting smaller!

Richard Hed said:

Well where is that? In Central Soviet (Washington State), as far as I know, there are no viable shows, but now I am temporarily in Nevada near Las Vegas and doesn't seem to be anything here either.

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East Idaho. Sorry, I thought my location showed that, but it only shows USA.

Danuzzo said:

East Idaho. Sorry, I thought my location showed that, but it only shows USA.

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Ah, but Idaho is a long state, you could be in Kellog and that would be east. Or you could be way south in the mountain area. We have a member near us in Montana (West, I thimpfk)

stevehuckss396 said:

I've seen it on the forums, both this one and other groups. Guys are saying they are worried about shows getting smaller and are worried that they will be gone. We'll not all of you, but a good number of you, come to the show and leave your models at home. Instead of showing up empty handed maybe think about bringing your creations and filling those empty tables. The guys who do show are aging and won't be able to do it forever. There are many people, younger guys, who bring a few things in there pockets and tell me about There projects back at home. Bring them out! If the younger able guys don't start showing, the tables will continue to get emptier until there isn't much worth looking at. Don't complain that the tables were empty at a show you went to when you left a dozen models in your garage to go there.

Just Sayin!

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I was not able to attend and exhibit this year, but will look forward to being there another time.
All very good points given. I can understand the show organizers wanting commitments for exhibitors being there all days, but that's not always possible. Be glad for anyone bringing anything to show.
I remember years ago at the local antique engine steam show they would have 80 feet of tables set up under cover, an airline with fittings and a compressor.
The tables were always full with loads of people watching and asking questions. The show management changes, that interest is not there. They don't want to put up tables nor provide air. And they listened to the flea market people complaining that we too up valuable space.
Along with the aging and passing on of the builders that part of the show has fallen to the wayside.
When exhibiting, I feel there are a number of good points.
Have a variety of display items .
Keep your display neat and tidy. Not a mass of plastic airline everywhere.
Be on your feet talking and showing your models to interested people.
Answer every question.
Allow people to touch and play.
Have fun items like finger engines, puzzles, and favorites like whistles with cords to pull and hand crank generators with lights.
I also took about 30 feet of track and a live steam locomotive with a riding car.
Ran an air hose to follow it along.
There were excited kids lined up all day to run that train back and forth.
I recall a visitor amazed that I allowed touching and playing. He was so pleased to see the interest.
So my point......
Don't give up.
Show what you can
Glean interest.
Be willing to share drawing copies to those interested.
Be willing to open up and mentor and train others.
Help support these show when you are able.

Richard Hed said:

Ah, but Idaho is a long state, you could be in Kellog and that would be east. Or you could be way south in the mountain area. We have a member near us in Montana (West, I thimpfk)

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Idaho Falls to be specific.

Thinking about how vendors and booths appear in the malls at Christmas time. A large variety of things to buy, but one of the things that fascinated me the most was the glass artist who made sculptures and blew tree ornaments as people watched.

With that in mind I wonder if someone could set up a small lathe or mill and let people watch them make things. Maybe whistles or some other small toy that they could give to kids that seemed to "get it".

Some of my earliest memories are of sitting on my grandfather's lap watching him operate a lathe

Of course the success of this would depend on getting the public into the show in the first place.

The trick is to capture the imagination of those who would rather do things hands on than tap a screen. I would venture that many have never had a hands on opportunity as opposed to the tap a screen being shoved in their face every day.

For me, I have always wanted to do machine work but wasn't able to get to it until I retired. I didn't even realize I had a desire to build little engines until I went to my first show 2 years ago and saw what was possible. I still don't know if it is in my wheelhouse, but I intend to find out this winter!

I love shows. I missed the first NAMES, but made it to every one after that. I was at every Cabin Fever except the pandemic year. I have gone to England 3 times for shows there. I have been to one in Zanesville. I had reservations and intended to go to the Indiana show, but at the last minute I decided not to go. It is 965 miles from my home to Aurburn. I had no one to go with me- in the early years of NAMES I had a full size van and went with 6 guys.

Many years at both NAMES and Cabin Fever I gave talks, demos and classes about building CNC machines. Over 50 guys have a CNC machine they built under my direction at a show.

But I am afraid we are no longer in Kansas, or whatever state it was 25 or 30 years ago.

I think forums like this one took a big edge off interest in shows. You can see more of the construction of an engine here than at a show, and for no cost. You can learn a lot more here.

Mostly I think it is age. I am now 82, pretty active for my age. Many of my friends from early shows are gone now. My age group grew up in schools with shop classes. I ran a lathe, poured aluminum and beat re-rod into a chisel in my Jr. High years. Not long after my school years they switched to more academic classes, not shops. So few people younger than my group have a shop interest.

Things, they are a changing.

DLanum said:

Allow people to touch and play.

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I put a sign up when I display my and my dad's engines, and the sign says "Touch These Engines - Use caution with the fingers and moving parts".
Anyone/everyone can touch any engine I have, including the green twin, and run most of them themselves using a flexible air line.

It is very funny to see the young kids who actually read my sign, and then walk up and start rotating all the flywheels on my engines.
The parents often react with horror when their kids start touching my engines, and the kid meekly points to my sign, and says "The sign says 'Touch These Engines'.

And other model builders sometimes react with horror that I am teaching kids to touch model engines.
Young kids are the next generation of model engine builders, and the best way to become a model engine builder is to actually interact with a model engine (in my opinion).
If you want to perserve your engine, I guess put a glass case around it.
If you want to teach, encourage folks to explore and touch your engine, and wipe the fingerprints off later.

I don't care if my engines survive, I want the hobby to survive.
I don't want people to admire my work; I want to inspire them to do their own work.

.

We usually have people using lathes and sometimes a mill at shows and they do at least on one of the stands let children have a go on them. see half way down page 8. The design has been brought upto date with metric sizes as anyone new to the hobby in the UK is likely to have spent their live with metric.

https://www.meridienneexhibitions.co.uk/media/fe7e2880b6b07fe8315d5a20e69aa4fa/MMEE24-ShowGuide.pdf

On a few of my electric start engines I made a remote starter button that sits at the front edge of the table. Kids of all ages really like the idea of starting an engine. Some come back again and again. I also have an engine that blows smoke rings that the kids enjoy. Someday an engine powered pencil sharpener. John Palmer campaigned one in CA. years ago-very popular with kids.

Danuzzo said:

Idaho Falls to be specific.

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Ah. Right now, I'm just as close to you in Las Vegas, as I would be if I were in Moses Lake. There are a couple of members in Idaho but I thimpfks they are quite a way north. As I said, Idaho is a LONG state. I don't thimpfk peeps realize how long it is (like MEXICO is too--much larger than it looks on a map). There are a couple in Montana and some in Oregon. There are a TON of memberrs in the Soviet, unfortunately, most of these peeps are a LONG way from Idaho Falls and even from MOses Lake, most are on the "West side" as we say here in the Soviet, that is, on the west side of the Cascade Mountains. As most of you who have never visited the Soviet might thimpfk, it NEVER stops raining on the west side.

GreenTwin said:

I put a sign up when I display my and my dad's engines, and the sign says "Touch These Engines - Use caution with the fingers and moving parts".
Anyone/everyone can touch any engine I have, including the green twin, and run most of them themselves using a flexible air line.

It is very funny to see the young kids who actually read my sign, and then walk up and start rotating all the flywheels on my engines.
The parents often react with horror when their kids start touching my engines, and the kid meekly points to my sign, and says "The sign says 'Touch These Engines'.

And other model builders sometimes react with horror that I am teaching kids to touch model engines.
Young kids are the next generation of model engine builders, and the best way to become a model engine builder is to actually interact with a model engine (in my opinion).
If you want to perserve your engine, I guess put a glass case around it.
If you want to teach, encourage folks to explore and touch your engine, and wipe the fingerprints off later.

I don't care if my engines survive, I want the hobby to survive.
I don't want people to admire my work; I want to inspire them to do their own work.

.

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Animals MUST touch, smell, taste, hear and see things for good mental health--sounds odd, but it's true. IN fact, there is a mild mental disease, forget what it's called but it's partial fix is to get the person on the ground and crawl on all fours! This is true. The reason seems to be that the person's parents taught him/her to walk too early--it is absolutely necessary for babies to crawl! Likewise, out system of education is teaching people NOT to "crawl" in a metaphorical sense in other ways. Our children and granddies are being taught to find out all their information in a flat package of paper and less and less information is learned from the five senses! It is absolutely necessary that people learn using the five senses, not just the one sense reading the package of paper. Our muscles must MOVE for good health, and out senses must be used for good health.

Children being curious is good and this should be encouraged. Too often nowadays, all possibilites of danger are covered over so children are taught that the universe is NOT dangerous. I have observed high school kids cross streets without a care and not look to see if there are vehickles approaching. I could fill ten oir more books with this rant but ... when I get excited, I hit the wrong keys on the keyboard, so someone else please continue the rant . . .

Richard, look closely, those kids crossing the street are looking @ their phones texting each other, oblivious to the world around them.
And to be fair, it’s not only the kids, don’t get me started…..
And…back on topic, there used to be a show in the late 90’s in Eugene Oregon, The P.R.I.M.E. modeling show. It filled an auditorium & I really enjoyed it. I went twice. Then it died I guess.
In the for sale section I remember there was a small shaper for $200. that I liked, but as I was on a motorcycle & 200 miles from home I left it.
It was still there when I left still for sale, how times change.

With that in mind I wonder if someone could set up a small lathe or mill and let people watch them make things. Maybe whistles or some other small toy that they could give to kids that seemed to "get it".

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The New England Model Engineering Society did this at the 2001 Cabin fever show. I made a deal with the Prazi guy to loan us a mill and a lathe and I brought MY CNC Sherline mill. We made brass whistles and I engraved the show name and date on them. Kids loved the whistles, but it was a lot of work to put together and we only did it one year.

In those years we chartered a bus and 30-35 of us came from Boston to Cabin Fever together. LOts of fun on the ride and the show. We loaded the bus well with cast iron, once enven a 16" bandsaw for the return trip.

The NEMES group has dwidled drastically. I started the group in 1954 and we had 70 guys show up for the first meeting, and reached over 100 members for a while. It has now dropped to a dozen or so guys. We did pull off a show last February, but we had to call in several other groups, like some model airplane guys and other hobbies.

As a show president, please allow me to comment on a few things
A 2 days show is the only way your going to get any vendors to show up. With the large number of vendors at a show they almost pay for the hall rental.
You have the cost of advertising, tables, air lines, a compressor, and the venue & a 3 million dollar insurance policy.
A 2 day show is about the only way your going to attract patrons thru the door.
This is an expensive hobby to get started in, most people under 40 don't have the money or time, & yes Industrial jobs are fewer then years ago. So fewer people are getting exposed to making things. But there are younger people doing this sort of hobby, but they show off on youtube or Instagram or Facebook.......we just need to convince them , that there is a large audience out there who wants to see in person.

Aaron

I would like to applaud the whole Indiana group for a job well done. I can only imagine the planning and logistics that went into organizing the show. It was great to see old friends and discuss engines and machining. As the number of builders and enthusiasts dwindle it would have been nicer to see more spectators. I feel that the number and variety of engines and models was very good but even our local antique engine shows draw a larger crowd. Hopefully this isn't a precursor for the future shows. I for one will continue to attend as my health allows.

How much does it cost for an table at one of these shows? And what does it cost for a motel room in the city where the show is taking place? If those that would exhibit can't afford the fees, then they won't come. It happens with a lot of these events - craft shows and such, the exhibitor fees keep going up, the exhibitor has to have some way to pay the fees, or they quit coming. How much of the death of these shows is the greed of the venue? the greed of the sponsor? The age of the exhibitor and their limited financial resources? Visitors not having extra money so they aren't buying much from the vendors?

How much did you spend at the show? how much did it cost you to go to the show? How much more did it cost this year than last year? How are your household finances doing this year as compared to previous years? When was the last time you exhibited?

Anything you do will cost money. It all depends where you want to spend it. Going to the amusement park like Cedar Point in Sandusky, Ohio costs $90.00 for a two day pass. If you go for 2 days then there naturally is overnight accomodations. Go to Disney or visit Greenfield, Village. Every venue has a price. Stay overnight and buy meals adds to the cost. For the model engineering community there are only so many shows within a decent traveling range so if you are into the hobby and from the east coast of the U.S. go and support them.
It cost $15 dollars for the exhibitor to attend for both days. I'm sure part of that was insurance cost so try going to McDonalds or the local cinema for that cost. The venue at the National Truck and Car Museum was first rate.

I had hoped to attend the National Truck and Car Museum show, but after I added up the cost of gas, food, hotel, and money lost from not working for 4 days, the financial hit was too much.
Inflation has been significant, and the cost to attend a show this year is a lot more than it was last time I attended a show, which was in 2019.

I am really glad that someone is still putting on shows, and I appreciate all the time and trouble that is involved in such an endeavor, not to mention expense.
The only good solution I see is to have the show at my house, and let everyone drive to my place (a bit of humor).
.

I and my wife (almost all the time) have been attending / displaying at shows of all kinds since the late 1970’s. These shows include Threshing, Live Steam, Model Engine, County Fairs and small town events ie 4th of July. First and foremost we did all this because it was fun. We had acquaintances all over the many states that the shows were held, which was the best part of the shows. Then all the attendees which made the show, being able to explain all the “stuff” and why we did it. There was one 5 day show that at the end my voice was almost gone, who could ask for more. These shows were our vacations ie lots of mini ones on weekends and several large ones. Our children and grandchildren were involved, the grandchildren built engines. Our last show this year had the grandchildren (now 25 and 27) at the display tables explaining their engines as well as mine and my wife’s displays. The Indiana show was going to be our last this year but an unforeseen health issue caused us not to attend, at 77 those things happen.

Most of the shows have a fee of some sort, but never more than the two of us going to a movie and dinner out. Never went to show that I thought the sponsor had their hand in my pocket. I am sorry but hobbies and fun do require some expenditure. Many years ago my brother in law thought I must be spending a fortune on all the events and projects. We compared his bowling, golf and vacation expenses to our costs for shows etc. He was shocked – yes he spent almost 50% more. You choose where to spend your money and on what. We are slowing down a bit and do not attend as many distant shows and have dropped out of some hobbies that required handling heavy objects ie live steam locomotives, scale traction engines, hit and miss full size.

As for costs to go to a show, we feel it costs more not to go. We would miss the comradery and the attendees. We would miss visiting with old friends and making new ones. I would not feel much like making stuff in the shop. My wife would not collect he unique items she brings. Bottom line we would sit at home looking at each other or worse yet watching TV or on the internet all day! All of which is a quick way to deteriorate. So until we cannot physically do it we will be at shows, as many as we can. Yes we have a budget, and yes things cost more, and yes we have not had an increase in pay in almost 20 years but we figure it out. We have it figured out so that after the last show the week before we both get planted the check for the hotel bounces! Now that is having a fun objective.

Bob

As for cost in the UK you don't have to pay to exhibit your model. Some shows will still expect you to pay your entrance fee others will give you free entry as a way of saying thank you for showing something as without that people won't have much to come and see. Vendors do pay for a pitch.