Replacing with Brush or Brushless DC motor

Steamchick · Sep 4, 2024

Hi Mihai,
It does look the same as mine, except for the wattage. (Irrelevant for operating instructions).
So simple to use.

On-Off is just that. Starts and stops rotation. I use it when the speed is set and I am repeatedly starting and stopping the lathe making multiple cuts and don't want to be fiddling with speed variation, e.g. when stopping to check sizes with micrometer, etc.
Speed control knob. When I first get going, this is set fully turned to the left when I switch ON. Then I rotate it to the right, until it first starts rotation. As long as the rotation is in the right direction, (I.E. I haven't left it going the wrong way!) then I increase speed to the desired speed and leave it at that. My experience is that "pots" wear out faster than main toggle switches(?), so use the ON-OFF to start and stop the lathe.
If I want reverse the Green button reverses direction. Set lathe running at the slowest speed. Press Green and it will stop, the start in reverse direction under factory set conditions.

Beyond that I have not fiddled with controls, but know the Top button increases the speed - above regular to speed if you wish? - and the bottom button slows the speed. - But I use the rotary knob.

That's about as far as I use it. - It is as simple as I need.
K2

NapierDeltic · Sep 4, 2024

Hi Steamchick,
Thank you for your advice! I have already downloaded and re-read your tutorial related to lathe integration of this servo-motor and I find it very useful!
I have also found a manual which I will attach to my post. I must stress that the manual is for a similar motor and the meaning of programming IDs and ranges could be different compared to our motors.
Although, what I kept in mind is that motor should be factory programmed with very conservative (average) parameters, so I have the confidence to free-run it without trouble.

SmithDoor · Sep 4, 2024

NapierDeltic said:
Hi Steamchick,
Thank you for your advice! I have already downloaded and re-read your tutorial related to lathe integration of this servo-motor and I find it very useful!
I have also found a manual which I will attach to my post. I must stress that the manual is for a similar motor and the meaning of programming IDs and ranges could be different compared to our motors.
Although, what I kept in mind is that motor should be factory programmed with very conservative (average) parameters, so I have the confidence to free-run it without trouble.

I like screw driver slot for adjusting and swith
The programing is so must fun with hours spent pull hair .

Dave

Niels Abildgaard · Sep 6, 2024

NapierDeltic said:
My 550W motor has arrived. I will not hurry to install it as I just have cleaned and checked my lathe and it is still going strong.
I will take my time to prepare mounting bracket and pulley.
On another hand my instructions are in Chinese only so I have to check for English version or some tutorials.

Mihai

View attachment 159488

My 700 W sewing machine motor is put on a 210 300 lathe.
I use the sewing machine foot speed regulato as very slow control for running directio and the run of pre-prorogramed speed and very,very fast stop if need be.
Speed comand is a Hall sensor with near indefinite life.

NapierDeltic · Sep 6, 2024

Hi Niels,
Thank you!
Actually I have just run my motor. The only complain (half complain) is that on motor it is written 200-6500rpm and in first test maximum displayed was 3000rpm, so less than half. Off course it can be adjusted through programming, but anyhow my enjoyed range on lathe (excluding minimum rpm operations) is 800-1200rpm, which anyway is in current field. Effectively I have obtained 158-3000rpm on motor shaft (as shown on controller).

Kind regards,
Mihai

Steamchick · Sep 8, 2024

My set-up is without the foot control.
But great to have something of a manual! Mine came with nothing.
K2

NapierDeltic · Sep 8, 2024

Small updates, small problems.
I have run the motor again; yes Steamchick, pressing + increases motor speed up to 4500rpm which seem to be set from factory as max. I think this limit can be changed through programming - if needed- up to declared 6000rpm. In this condition (+ to the max) the range adjusted through potentiometer is 148-4500rpm. I have also tested reverse and is running OK.
Now, the problem of logistic nature (if I exclude the MAN

.
My motor is according this link:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100....order_list.order_list_main.17.21ef1802tUN6fa

I look back now at Steamchick's and notice the difference, but then -when I have ordered- the price was soo good and in the night all cats are black.
So, my engine seems to have 100x100mm face plate (actually 102x102), while Steamchick's seem to be 80x80mm.
This means I will have some problems. Possibly my motor won't fit in place of the old one. So I'll have to re-think my mounting plate and possibly need another belt.
Funny!

Steamchick · Sep 16, 2024

It sometimes pays to check such things as PCD, overall dimensions, etc. but I had difficulty buying my motor stuff as many websites had products without technical stuff like dimensions!
Enjoy. And keep on posting as this is interesting stuff!
K2

NapierDeltic · Sep 16, 2024

I must confess that both lathe and mill are candidates to motor upgrade. But while my lathe still runs strong, the mill gave up. The original motor was a satisfying 500W brushless, but because of controller issues something burnt out. First it started accelerating and braking randomly and finally I heard something burning inside controller. I believe it was due to electronics ageing in a quite hot environment.
Interim, I fitted a spindle motor. Well, it proved to be a little underpowered but this was not the main issue (which could be adjusted through a second stage in transmission). The main issue was it had not speed stabilizer under load. This is very annoying and costly during heavier cuts. Milling tool stops suddenly and takes full load of impact during manual advance. Otherwise allowed a neat adaptation to my mill.
So I went on to servo-motor. As I said, It is a bit oversized and its adapter mounting plate doesn't match original screw nuts position. I had to find solution by attaching small rear external brackets. I have ordered a toothed belt 340mm long - instead 350mm original - and with this I hope to use the rear original nuts and to keep package in original limits.
So today I have made first run test on the mill which proved to be fully satisfactory. Still have to remove old motor and electronics and to install the new controller.

Steamchick · Sep 17, 2024

Good stuff!
While I think the polished aluminium looks nice and clean, I do know (from industrial experience calculating temperatures of equipment and housings) that industry uses a painted grey for a good reason.
The emissivity (directly affects how much heat is radiated from the hot body) of grey painted aluminium we used was 0.85, whereas the emissivity of bright aluminium was used as 0.3. The thin film of paint acts very slightly as an insulator, but is so thin so we ignored it in the calculations (3rd decimal place effect).
The difference of emissivity was nearly 3 times with the grey paint than for shiny aluminium. Tests proved the calculations to be suitable. On some jobs we painted other colours, but never left the shiny aluminium as the working surface for cooling even when inside enclosure, and often inside enclosures just used the black etch primer, and didn't paint with an over-coat of any colour. The same for copper conductors. We were looking at component surfaces not exceeding 85deg.C in enclosures at up to 55 deg.C. Painting made a significant difference on surface temperature of the equipment. But shiny is cheap and looks clean when new and un-corroded.
Hence I suggest painting the motor with a matt dark grey, black, or similar, to help cool the motor by radiation. (I have not yet done mine but want to soonest. Must buy the paint spray can!).
Cheers!
K2

Steamchick · Sep 17, 2024

Just ordered this for painting my motor.
I used "stove" paint on many motorcycle cylinder blocks, etc. to help keep them cool, and looking good. On electrical equipment and extra 5 degrees of cooling often means long life instead of allowing the smoke to escape... when the electrics will fail.
K2
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273530524068?_skw=Spray+paint+black+stove+for+aluminium&var=574692598458&epid=8031290815&itmmeta=01J7ZFBPDY9J4RCFQKHCK1TD64&hash=item3fafb091a4:g:hHgAAOSwsgdmNMbp&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAABAHoV3kP08IDx+KZ9MfhVJKmzOCRYb4bYw8w492+p8BQkJ8PAFPfcXO3IK17Uu6njfRxcyr3Ic4G+jGkdlYeQkxACKScf5Vds/vdLaJbktyjPEKY8gk4xx6Ty9cE00NoB9iWduFNACAG3YLdrv2EqudqNTkr/guOy7GljM3zkhY3YVVxrFbZu7AITEo0pnI3zaXqV1KGocI2CPhwwFurWxSNLsgJdyLueK/+4a9PB9wj2ihN3BgtKHz1ONslS0ZuanRK4LXJaH+bs4qfG0VFM3FrTxp164V2uU+5uaAK1Iw3paQZo++NKg1zPb+CJhBdrT6CN2h9+TjJA8BE4ZHVX7WI=|tkp:BFBMkOeu779k&edge=0

NapierDeltic · Sep 17, 2024

Hi Steamchick, thank you for all your advice!
First of all, stove black paint is hard to find here but I already have high temp black spray paint on which -if I remember correctly - is mentioned it can be used on engine mufflers and such.
But... I wonder if Easter eggs dyes or inkjet printer dyes (or kind of permanent marker) could be used , maybe with a thin stabiliser additional layer? Honestly, I hate spray paints both because I consider them messy for the spaces I use and I believe the layer is too thick and insulating for heat transfer. Yes, I have received your considerations about heat conduction vs heat radiation, with gain for radiated heat; but I have my opinions concerning organic layers conduction which are hard to overcome. The main concern is related to achievable thickness.
Otherwise I agree with you and I thank you for reminding it and adding details!

Steamchick · Sep 18, 2024

Thanks NapierD...
You can black anodise aluminium, of a molecule of colour to improve emissivity. But that is extreme, and I have only experienced this once in my career.
Black dye/ink - yes, if you have one that works. I have some leather dye (thinned with alcohol) but think it is too thin on metal. But Black permanent marker pens are OK.
Black wax - probably will melt? - if not, black shoe polish may be OK? - Try it and see?
Carbon black (e.g. from a candle flame) - works but not durable.
Aerosol spray paint (contains a lot of thinners, so paint thickness can be very thin). Works for me. BUT if you are heavy handed at spraying (like much of my spraying!), it can build thick coats that are unnecessary.
Well thinned canned paint. Needs to be well thinned - maybe use an air-brush? - to get the thinnest coats.

Or, on your mill, you could increase cooling (for lower speed running at high cutting loads?) by adding a 3 in diameter computer fan... blowing into the end of the motor where the cooling air is normally drawn-in. (On the cream plastic cover "on-top"). These motors rely on the centrifugal fan on the end of the shaft blowing cooling air along the outside of the aluminium body.
Cheers,
K2

ajoeiam · Sep 18, 2024

NapierDeltic said:
Hi Steamchick, thank you for all your advice!
First of all, stove black paint is hard to find here but I already have high temp black spray paint on which -if I remember correctly - is mentioned it can be used on engine mufflers and such.
But... I wonder if Easter eggs dyes or inkjet printer dyes (or kind of permanent marker) could be used , maybe with a thin stabiliser additional layer? Honestly, I hate spray paints both because I consider them messy for the spaces I use and I believe the layer is too thick and insulating for heat transfer. Yes, I have received your considerations about heat conduction vs heat radiation, with gain for radiated heat; but I have my opinions concerning organic layers conduction which are hard to overcome. The main concern is related to achievable thickness.
Otherwise I agree with you and I thank you for reminding it and adding details!

Probably not an 'accepted' practice but growing up mom would wipe down the stove with the paper towel that had the bacon drippings on it.
Produced a very nice glossy sheen that lasted for quite some time - - - not permanent though (although the commercial paints aren't that either!).
Made for some great smells as the stove warmed up too - - - lol.

Steamchick · Sep 18, 2024

Well, if hot enough to burn animal fat, the motor will stop as the lacquer on the windings turns to smoke and the windings short in a large "Bang". - So don't bother with that one... most of the grease will simply run off or evaporate!
I'm surprised your Mother used paper towels back in the day... more likely old newsprint? - The printers mix of old oil and carbon black from newsprint was a favourite blacking when I was a lad... cheaper than sticks of greasy blacking! But the cancer from 40 years of printing (Carcinogenic Ink) killed my mate's Dad (before the lead poisoning from the type-sets made him lose his mind) - and persuaded my mate to change career from printing to nursing! - So take care with all these materials, as you don't know the dangers of any of them.

e.g. the soot in this video is carcinogenic! - And if you have a nut allergy the nuts can cause a nasty allergic reaction!
So much for a lack of "toxic" chemicals!

K2

ajoeiam · Sep 18, 2024

Steamchick said:
Well, if hot enough to burn animal fat, the motor will stop as the lacquer on the windings turns to smoke and the windings short in a large "Bang". - So don't bother with that one... most of the grease will simply run off or evaporate!
I'm surprised your Mother used paper towels back in the day... more likely old newsprint? - The printers mix of old oil and carbon black from newsprint was a favourite blacking when I was a lad... cheaper than sticks of greasy blacking! But the cancer from 40 years of printing (Carcinogenic Ink) killed my mate's Dad (before the lead poisoning from the type-sets made him lose his mind) - and persuaded my mate to change career from printing to nursing! - So take care with all these materials, as you don't know the dangers of any of them.

e.g. the soot in this video is carcinogenic! - And if you have a nut allergy the nuts can cause a nasty allergic reaction!
So much for a lack of "toxic" chemicals!

K2

I would really really like to respond accurately to this but as mr Steamchick is the absolute expert on all things - - - - even those he knows absolutely nothing about. Oh well - - - I guess I'm not supposed to include ideas that I know work because the present day safety 'experts' know that the only that works is - - - - listen for it - - - - nothing!

Steamchick · Sep 18, 2024

Beg pardon, Ajoeiam, I know very little about an awful lot.
If some of my rhetoric offends, please tell me directly, so I can learn to be a better correspondent. Otherwise I take this as a public chastisement as you intended?
My apologies for "sounding-off" on matters I know nothing of... just my opinion from what I know or seems obvious? I simply don't know what is true from my life experiences and what is not, but think I have a fair judgement of most things so I try not to mislead people.
If you can tell me which bits are simply wrong, I can delete them? - And learn a bit in the process?
A big "SORRY" to you.
K2

NapierDeltic · Sep 18, 2024

Hello Steamchick, yes I am heavy handed and rather niggler, mostly on profiled surfaces where I notice paint is not evenly applied (or missing here and there) and I correct it ...
I want a thin layer , even if it is easier damaged. The paint is not for protection purposes and my mill won't take any beauty contest.
I have used airbrush, both mouth and compressor powered. Though I don't say I'm professional, airbrush allows (requires) diluted paints which leave thin layers.
Dyes/inks seem to stain everything, even what you don't want to... I will test.

Steamchick · Sep 18, 2024

I would challenge you to heavy handed painting. I was taught as a student by "professional painters" (read as "paint slappers"!) during a few weeks of painting a factory! Slap it on thick - the customer pays for all the paint used and speed is all you need to make a profit! With a full brush (and drips) the brush moves quickly and covers in a single stroke. It is not stroking something for pleasure, so fewer strokes mean a quicker job.
I am no Michelangelo!
K2

Replacing with Brush or Brushless DC motor

Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Attachments

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!