Windows shopping for 3-D printer.

[Tin Falcon]

This kit has even more for a little more money

http://www.sainsmart.com/ramps-sd-a4988-lcd2004-2560-mechanical-mk2b-5-m-thermistor-0-4mm-nozzle-t5-fan-alumi.html

this one adds a few meters of timing belts. 5 pulleys and extruder heater with nozzle aluminum bed plate to mount the heater and a piece of borocilicate glass.

FYI this stuff is shipped out of Mainland china to most of the world. they do have a warehouse in Germany.
Tin

 

[Tin Falcon]

The Best Advice I can give you, is find a hacker space in NJ. Most of them have a 3d Printer on hand. I would try it out first before shelling out money.

Interesting Idea but the only one almost close enough is in the planning stages.
Tin

 

[aonemarine]

Tin, your not that far from me are you? If you needed something you could just swing over. You are good company.

I was reading/ researching and ran across this a few momnets ago. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...n-could-spark-a-second-3d-printing-revolution
Maybe we should wait a bit and see what happens??

 

[Tin Falcon]

I Have looked at the stl print technology as well. the formlabs form 1 printer package is about $ 3,300 the material is $149 per liter they recommend buying in cartons of 4 to save shipping.

so at least at the present time the cost of STL is about three times the cost of plastic extrusion.

I may send a pm and make a visit I have a vacation week coming up.

Do I need a 3-d printer probably not do I want one yes. I think at this time in my life it is probably better to buy one or buy a complete kit. as I would rather spend the time learning to use it than spending a lot of time building.
I am keeping options open for now
Tin

 

[Tin Falcon]

One of my hesitations of building a 3-d printer besides the time is the cost of parts fearing part cast could be near equal or exceed a commercial printer.

As anyone knows who has shopped at McMaster Carr and other similar supply houses know little things like timing pulleys and couplers can add up quick. IIrc it cost about $80 for such parts to convert the CNC lathe. Thus my apprehension.
So in search of affordable timing pulley I found this web page

http://www.robotdigg.com/product/index/page/1
yes out of china.
lots of 3-d printer parts ala cart.

The prices look very reasonable 9.00 for a heat bed $ 2 pulleys. Drivers are $4.50. Shopping list t follow ?

Tin

 

[aonemarine]

Tin, I went thru the same thing when I was thinking about building a printer. Finally I just bought a kit.
No regrets. I still might build one one day when I have more time but by then who knows what technology will be available. I still haven't even managed to get my cnc mill built. Time to take some vacation time so I can finish up some projects.....

 

[Tin Falcon]

Well I put together a shopping list with no real plan. but a fairly complete list including linear rod and bearings and rod ends. the total came to $275. so add in the other stuff and I am looking at somewhere around $400 for parts to build one of these things. This lis includes kaplon tape a 400 gram 4 color pla sample a ceramic screwdriver for adjusting the drivers cable wrap . it does not include the power supply +$30 motor mounts borosilicate glass and a few other things.
so a similar prebuild would be something like $700 may be worth doing.
Now I need to decide do I do a basic cube design with moving one piece extruder an eventor bot with remote drive extruder or a portable briefcase style.

Prebuild not out of the running but $ 300 is a chunk of change time vs money hmm.and I still need to think about stuff like filament and Kaplon tape. so easy another hundred top of the 7.


Tin

 

[aonemarine]

The only thing I can think of to add would be dual print heads. One for the part and one for a disolveable support material. I have a couple of prints kicking my butt because ot the supports....

 

[Tin Falcon]

thanks that is one consideration of finalizing a plan .
I am also thinking of a 150 watt ps instead of a 120 +$20....

the last link has useful parts like end supports for $1-2 each so a couple extras for spares or design flexibility would not break the bank, I am concerned about shipping and a few items have min quantity.
I get the feeling Sainsmart is geared more to the hobby/ first time builder robot digs more oem.

 

[rodw]

Tin, this is an interesting controller board and the stepper controllers run cooler than the basic Polou which in my experience was an issue with missed steps, hence I bought a Gecko.
http://www.robotronics.com.au/web/products/rumba-3d-printer-controller-drv8825

This shop also has J heads and a better heater component for them than a simple resistor. This board supports 3 print heads and is cheaper over your way. I think I would go with the remote bowden extruder to get weight down if you go with multiple heads. I am still keen on ball screws. Feedback from a friend today keeping the Z axis travel level with dual steppers was a never ending problem as they would not stay in sync. He thought it would be better to run one stepper on the Z axis like he does with CNC mills.

I will think some more but wondered if the x and y were on a gantry running on a lead rail of some kind, driven by a ball screw and the Z ballscrew poked up in the air.
And I found a third NEMA 17 in my shed today.... so I probably only need steppers for the extruders.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Breaking news Maker bot Printers go on sale at the Home Depot.

http://www.zdnet.com/makerbot-3d-printers-go-on-sale-at-the-home-depot-7000031556/


OK so it is a pilot program in a handful of stores . but still interesting are these starting to go main stream.?


As I recall sears craftsman had a 3d cnc router in there tool line up but you had to buy each and every design it was not overly user friendly. limited envelope an a high price tag.

Tin

 

[aonemarine]

I admire the push forward, but at the same time I know how 3d printers can be fickle at times. IMHO 3D printing is not for everyone (atleast not with the current technology) this could be a make or break move......

 

[jschoenly]

I saw this at another site:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...pot_gets_into_3_d_printing_with_makerbot.html

I have to agree with some of the very honest comments. 3D printers are cool and you can do some amazing things, but they are not like buying a desktop laser printer, not simply plug and play. The comments they make about "not having a correct fitting, we can just print one" are comical to me. FDM has come a long way, but it still generally ends with a porous and brittle version of a part compared to an injection molded item. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[aonemarine]

Jared, try the color fabb filament its much stronger than abs or pla, prints really well too.

 

[jschoenly]

No FDM here for me. A friend has one and I sit about 15 feet from a Fortus 400MC by Stratasys, but I just have the B9 at home...

 

[Tin Falcon]

Color Fabb will keep that name in mind . looks like some neat product I checked out the web site and bookmarked.

When one thinks about it we put some very high demands on everyday simple products.


Tthe demands are very high for 3-d filament. We want strong but not brittle . it needs to melt easily but cool quickly to a solid. we want it to flow easily out the nozzle but not sag run or droop once it hits the print bed or the previous layer. We want it to weld solidly to the previous layer without damaging the previous layer or cause it to move sag or droop. We are building many layers of round extrusion yet want it to become a smooth solid.
The flow fill freeze cycle could likey challenge any student of thermal dynamics.

we expect all this and more for something like $35 a kilo.


Tin

 

[rodw]

Tin, I have been beavering away with research too. I think I will go the DIY way if it becomes reality as the fun for me might be in making the machine! The Ordbot Hadron is a very interesting open source design that is high quality. This is just the frame and steppers and will be cheaper on your side of the world.
http://www.robotronics.com.au/web/products/ord-bot-hadron-mechanical-platform

It is made of Makerslide which is a cool open source extrusion that is designed for making 3D printers. There are a lot of accessories available to bolt it all together. 3D drawings are available.

Feedback from guys with CNC and cheap printers is getting the Z axis working well with two steppers is problematic as the steppers can get out of sync. So If I build one, it will be no holes barred.

So my current thinking For the Z is to use linear slides to move the bed up and down and a single 1202 Ball slide (12mm shaft, 2mm pitch) driven by a 400 step (0.9deg) stepper. This will give 5 micron accuracy without microstepping. If the ball screw is centred on one side of the build platform, a couple of rods and linear bearings might be added on the opposite two corners.

I thought the X axis would be attached to the Z axis platform and the Y axis suspended from above.

I was trying to avoid using belts as keeping them tight to eliminate backlash is problematic but it seems that ball screws are a bit to slow on the X & Y axes. The other fast technology is to use a gear rack on the axis with a cog on the stepper as per the longitudinal drive on a lathe. I just don't know how much backlash this might add to the system or how to control it.

The RUMBA board supports up to three extruders and the configuration shown has a newer stepper board that runs cooler (which I know is problematic from playing with the 4988 driver board)
http://www.robotronics.com.au/web/products/rumba-3d-printer-controller-drv8825

I was gong to use the opensource Bulldog XL extruder using a bowden setup that moves the heavy stepper assembly off the moving platform for speed (eg Bowden cable is like the throttle cable on a lawn mower)
http://www.robotronics.com.au/web/products/bulldog-extruder-xl

Once configured with the hot ends, this extruder path is quite pricey at around $250 each and I was up for around $1k for a single extruder model with roughly a 12" (305mm) cube as a build area.

Because I have a relationship with a laser cutter, I thought the frame would be cut from 2mm or 3mm steel plate. This would allow precise positioning of mounting holes plus add a bit of weight which has to help accuracy.

Hope that helps (or confuses)

 

[Tin Falcon]

Yes I saw this early in my searching.


http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/3d-printer-machine/3d-printer-mechanical-platform-no-controller

they have a full setup for $730.
Tin

 

[rodw]

Yes I saw this early in my searching.


http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/3d-printer-machine/3d-printer-mechanical-platform-no-controller

they have a full setup for $730.
Tin

So now check out the extrusion it is made from. CAD files are there too.
http://makerslide.com

If you Google this stuff, it is cool.

 

[bbanfield]

In case you haven't seen this. http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2014/0715/Home-Depot-stores-to-begin-selling-MakerBot-3D-printers