what do you think of this Whippet Engine?

[Richard Hed]

Thanks for clearing that up.

just by way of comparison Richard may like to look at the cost of say Stuart Turner ready to run engines, makes these far eastern offerings look like a bargain. Take this basic one which would cost $450 plus shipping. I know which one I would say is better value.
https://www.stuartmodels.com/item/3090/stuart-s-t--oscillator-ready-to-run
I've also said it before on other forums I think there would be a small market for some of these lost designs where castings are no longer available if someone produced CNC machined "castings" leaving the builder to do all the minor work such as final boring, drilling and tapping etc. You would not get the problems of casting flaws or undersize castings that we see so often and if they can make a working engine for $500 then the set of CNC'd castings would be competitive. Looking at Sterlingkit's facebook page their machined castings look like they will be far better than the originals ever were

You are right, of course, it's just that my Jewish genes prevent me from buying things that I can make much cheaper. I've always been like that since I was 10 (please read my other related post). Recently I have been working in order to buy some machining related goodies--I only earn about 125$ take home per day--peanuts compared to what Iused to make. That would make that engine cost 3 days worth of work. I would much rather spend 3 MONTHS building it. Much greater self-fulfilment and pleasure in doing that. Plus bragging rights.

Yes, I agree with you, there would be a "small" market for these castings. That market might be larger than you thimpfk, however, if the price is kept low. (The first law of economics is "lower the price, sell more, make mor profit). There are 10s of thousands, if not millions, of people who are interested. I have a whole list of small engines I would like castings for, starting with the Atkinson Differential. Just look at all the people making their own castings and learning Foundry to be able to do so, simply because the castings are not available or are too pricey.

What if the Guys and Gals on these forums formed sort of a 'guild' to specialize in ONE engine each (or maybe two, if small ones) and sold them together in one catalog? Might work. Might be possible to lower the price and sell more.

 

[Richard-Vanderpol]

Yes, I understand, "round it up", but that is, to me, a trixsy little lie. In the Philippines, I was sold a table saw that they claimed was 3 HP. But before I boughjt it, I lookt at the wattage which was 1700. Well, you know that 760W=1HP, so 1700/760=2.23HP, right? I called them on this, and it was hem and haw. Of course, in the phils, you expect this kind of blatant lying, the Chinese only care about ONE THING: making that sale! And the Philippinos only care about ONE thing: getting that MONEY! It's definitly Caveat Emptor! So this tiny little discrepancy (lie?) catches my attention immediatly. If one is going to round that 9.3, then it should be down to 9cc not up to 10. PIcky picky picky--absolutely. catch a liar in one lie, how many lies did you miss? Truth is, I know nothing of this little company Stirling...., it might be a fine company. Does anyone out there in the known universe know more than I, I expect so.

I would like to know if this is a reputable company. I'm just saying, I would not pay 500USD for this. I, of course, would make my own, not buy a pre-made and assembled one.

excuse me; 746W=1HP.

The total cylinder volume of the engine is equal to the sum of the cylinder working volume and the combustion chamber volume
The working volume of the cylinder is 12.5*12.5*π*19=9.327cc. The volume of the combustion chamber cannot be estimated due to irregularities, and the total is about 10cc.
We do not deny that it is not the exact right number, and the approximate value is an integer of 10cc.
If according to your statement, you are wrong too, 760W is greater than 1HP, 745.6999W is 1HP, rounding is also 746W = 1HP.
Furthermore, the displacement label of a car's 2.0T engine is 2.0L, which is also a lie of the car manufacturer, because it is actually impossible to be 2.0L.

 

[Richard-Vanderpol]

Well we are still waiting for you to make a model

There are several of these far eastern makers/ sellers and they have a reasonable following with collectors. Many of their designs are based on other designs from the past.

You also need to bear in mind that back in the day many of these engines were built to compete in specific engine classes where the max may have been 30cc or 15cc and they were described as 30cc or 15cc but just under that to keep within the rules hence why the 10cc Whippet has never actually been 10cc

you are right. it should be 9.327cc. The working volume of the cylinder is 12.5*12.5*π*19=9.327cc. The volume of the combustion chamber cannot be estimated due to irregularities, and the total is about 10cc.

 

[Richard-Vanderpol]

Yes, I understand, "round it up", but that is, to me, a trixsy little lie. In the Philippines, I was sold a table saw that they claimed was 3 HP. But before I boughjt it, I lookt at the wattage which was 1700. Well, you know that 760W=1HP, so 1700/760=2.23HP, right? I called them on this, and it was hem and haw. Of course, in the phils, you expect this kind of blatant lying, the Chinese only care about ONE THING: making that sale! And the Philippinos only care about ONE thing: getting that MONEY! It's definitly Caveat Emptor! So this tiny little discrepancy (lie?) catches my attention immediatly. If one is going to round that 9.3, then it should be down to 9cc not up to 10. PIcky picky picky--absolutely. catch a liar in one lie, how many lies did you miss? Truth is, I know nothing of this little company Stirling...., it might be a fine company. Does anyone out there in the known universe know more than I, I expect so.

I would like to know if this is a reputable company. I'm just saying, I would not pay 500USD for this. I, of course, would make my own, not buy a pre-made and assembled one.

excuse me; 746W=1HP.

and one more thing, I'm sorry about your experience in the phils. but there is one old saying. He who was once bitten by a snake will be frightened at the sight of a noose/coiled rope.

 

[Richard-Vanderpol]

Well we are still waiting for you to make a model

There are several of these far eastern makers/ sellers and they have a reasonable following with collectors. Many of their designs are based on other designs from the past.

You also need to bear in mind that back in the day many of these engines were built to compete in specific engine classes where the max may have been 30cc or 15cc and they were described as 30cc or 15cc but just under that to keep within the rules hence why the 10cc Whippet has never actually been 10cc

this is how it's made.

 

[Richard-Vanderpol]

Does this come with the Ginsu Steak knives?

and why do you ignore the combustion chamber volume?

 

[Jasonb]

Richard the convention is to measure the displacement and not include the void above the piston at TDC. This is an international convention and arrived at by the calculation you show of bore area x stroke be it in cc, lts or cu.in

I have never seen the void above the piston included when quoting engine capacity, it only tends to be used when calculating compression ratio. It should be quite easy to measure the void with CAD

Out of interest what would be the cost to supply only the CNC machined "castings" that I showed in post #26 ?

 

[davidyat]

I don't understand this comment unless it's a racist one?

Kit and drawings from hemmingway costs about $330 so $170 to make one for sale.

Jason, just out of curiosity, how old are you?

 

[Jasonb]

50s

 

[davidyat]

Now I get why you don't understand Ginsu Steak Knives. And why is it, that when someone these days doesn't understand anything, it becomes racist to them?

 

[Jasonb]

If you looked at my profile you would also see I'm not American so would not have seen the adverts whatever age. As Awake says it could be taken for a racist comment particularly following the previous post with comments about Philippines and China from the same member by anyone who is not old enough and American.

 

[Jasonb]

double post

 

[awake]

If you looked at my profile you would also see I'm not American so would not have seen the adverts whatever age. As Awake says it could be taken for a racist comment particularly following the previous post with comments about Philippines and China from the same member by anyone who is not old enough and American.

Unfortunately, there are so many examples on both sides - examples of comments that really are racist, sometimes explicitly but also sometimes implicitly and perhaps unconsciously ... and there are examples of comments that were heard as racist when they really were not intended as such, even unconsciously. And to make life even more difficult, the line between these two can be very fuzzy. Certainly the way I first introduced the term was not intended to be racist at all ... and according to Richard, the actual manufacturer of the knives was based in USA ... but could there have been some racist overtones or motivation in the choice of the Asian-sounding brand name by this USA company? Could be ... but how can we tell?

The fact of the matter is, we are constantly bumping up against cultural and ethnic and other demographic boundaries in just about everything we say and do. It is difficult for us to escape our own history and heritage, the speech patterns and references that we learned along the way, and even harder for us to know if there might be some inherent bias at work in how those patterns and references evolved. It is all too easy to participate in biased patterns without consciously choosing to do so ... all too easy to accuse someone of being biased, and all too easy to deny any bias whatsoever.

Rather than being either accusatory or defensive, we might do better to acknowledge that we are all, always, biased in certain ways, both consciously and unconsciously - and then talk through how each of us is hearing something that is being said, vs. what we thought we were trying to say, and ponder together how we can better communicate with one another. At different times and in different contexts, some areas of bias are far more "charged" than others, due to personal history, surrounding events, and so on. Many of us have made comments that could well be perceived as age-biased, but in the context of this forum, where many of us acknowledge a certain, ahem, maturity of years, such comments are probably generally understood to be gentle teasing - often directed at oneself. In another context, though, or for another person who has experienced agism in a very negative way, these "innocent" comments may be heard as very painful. If that is true for someone, I want to know it so that I can be sensitive to how my comments are being heard.

I would say the way the dialogue unfolded here was a good example of how to handle the issue. Jasonb raised the question in a way that I perceived as straightforward inquiry. Richard and I explained the reference, and Jason acknowledged that that made sense. Now we both know more than we did before - Jason knows a bit of Americana, and I now realize that someone who does not share my history may hear this reference as racially "loaded" in ways that I certainly do not intend. A good, open dialogue to clear up misunderstanding.

 

[Richard Hed]

and one more thing, I'm sorry about your experience in the phils. but there is one old saying. He who was once bitten by a snake will be frightened at the sight of a noose/coiled rope.

I never heard that saying before. But I like it. A noose? Just so you know, I'm afraid of my own shadow. It has to do with the fact that I was raised by Wolves . . . .

 

[Richard Hed]

and why do you ignore the combustion chamber volume?

What I learned is only the strokeXArea. If anything, adding in the extra empty volume would decrease the power and it should also decrease any knock or pinging.

 

[Richard Hed]

Unfortunately, there are so many examples on both sides - examples of comments that really are racist, sometimes explicitly but also sometimes implicitly and perhaps unconsciously ... and there are examples of comments that were heard as racist when they really were not intended as such, even unconsciously. And to make life even more difficult, the line between these two can be very fuzzy. Certainly the way I first introduced the term was not intended to be racist at all ... and according to Richard, the actual manufacturer of the knives was based in USA ... but could there have been some racist overtones or motivation in the choice of the Asian-sounding brand name by this USA company? Could be ... but how can we tell?

The fact of the matter is, we are constantly bumping up against cultural and ethic and other demographic boundaries in just about everything we say and do. It is difficult for us to escape our own history and heritage, the speech patterns and references that we learned along the way, and even harder for us to know if there might be some inherent bias at work in how those patterns and references evolved. It is all too easy to participate in biased patterns without consciously choosing to do so ... all too easy to accuse someone of being biased, and all too easy to deny any bias whatsoever.

Rather than being either accusatory or defensive, we might do better to acknowledge that we are all, always, biased in certain ways, both consciously and unconsciously - and then talk through how each of us is hearing something that is being said, vs. what we thought we were trying to say, and ponder together how we can better communicate with one another. At different times and in different contexts, some areas of bias are far more "charged" than others, due to personal history, surrounding events, and so on. Many of us have made comments that could well be perceived as age-biased, but in the context of this forum, where many of us acknowledge a certain, ahem, maturity of years, such comments are probably generally understood to be gentle teasing - often directed at oneself. In another context, though, or for another person who has experienced agism in a very negative way, these "innocent" comments may be heard as very painful. If that is true for someone, I want to know it so that I can be sensitive to how my comments are being heard.

I would say the way the dialogue unfolded here was a good example of how to handle the issue. Jasonb raised the question in a way that I perceived as straightforward inquiry. Richard and I explained the reference, and Jason acknowledged that that made sense. Now we both know more than we did before - Jason knows a bit of Americana, and I now realize that someone who does not share my history may hear this reference as racially "loaded" in ways that I certainly do not intend. A good, open dialogue to clear up misunderstanding.

You are so right about this. Your analysis is superb and I especially salute your comments on inherent bias in the language itself. One thing I would point out: my mentions of Philippinos and Chinese--I suppose someone wishing to prove a point could claim my comments are racist, however, my comments are observational--that's all. In fact, I have a degree in Psychology, a minor in Anthropology--I have been trained to observe people and societies. Also, it is well known that the very best observers are people trained in . . . Physics! I also have a minor in Physics, so I am all set to obseerve people and societies.

If you were to read a book, I think it is called "The Boston School . . . System?" you would read about a teacher who claimed she was not racist but certainly did racist things, while there was a man who claimed he was indeed racist but did NOT do racist things. ???? Often we get things backward and especially so when we have an agenda for finding racism in every little word we say. Last year, I used the word "Mexican" to a Mexican lady who just about called management because I had used a racist word! NO KIDDING! My daughter told me to use the word "hispanic". What a total krok of you know waht! I was trying to explain to this lady why I had a difficult time understanding the "Hispanics" when talking over a radio in a loud combine I was driving. She would not allow me to explain, but for your benefit it is this: Mexicans tend to drop the ends of words,for instance, the word "five", we pronounce as fah eev, but many Mex' truncate it to fah ee. Many words are truncated like that, and it certainly is difficult to understand in a loud combine over a radio! Also, their language pronouces certain phonemes (letter/characters) differently. Notably, "b/v". a "b" sounds a lot like a "v" and vice-versa.

There is NO racism in pointing this out -- UNLESS one is trying to take advantage of such a situation. Most racists are only trying to make themselves look better at the expense of someone else.

 

[minh-thanh]

Just a question : If someone else does the same thing is it spam ?
( I have commented on the color of this engine with stirlingkit on facebook.)

 

[awake]

A good example of what I would guess is a "charged" situation for this woman. Not sure if it is true out where you are, but around here, there is a good bit of bias in the Hispanic community against Mexicans. According to some of our friends, people from Costa Rica or Guatemala or so on will tend to assume that Mexicans are lower on cultural and economic scales. If the same is true where you are, then I could imagine that someone is far more likely to assume that "Mexican" is meant in a negative way - because that is what their repeated experience has been.

 

[davidyat]

Being an original Baby Boomer, born in 1946, I'm so glad I grew up in those times. Granted we had social problems back then, but at least in the 1950's I had "Parents" they were not my "Friends". My Mother told the Nuns that taught me, "It's OK to discipline me". And if I didn't, my Mom would be up at the school instantly to "discipline" me in front of my classmates. And Southern California wasn't as populated in the 1960's as it is today. Yes, I did stupid things as a young adult, thankfully didn't hurt anyone and when I was caught, I took the punishment because I knew I deserved it. You see that Man in my avatar, He's my Father. I worshiped the ground He and my Mom walked on because they didn't give me everything I wanted, but they gave me everything I needed.
Grasshopper

 

[awake]

I think I am the one who raised the possibility of spam. Hopefully I did not do so in a way that makes it seem like I have the right to decide what does or does not fall into that category! (If I did, my apologies!) But as the one who started this train ... to me, commenting on someone else's product is not spam. Neither is calling attention to one's own product, so long as one is up front about it being one's own product. What makes me start to think "spam" is when someone repeatedly comments on a product in such a way that it begins to seem as though the goal is not to ask questions or offer opinions, but rather to advertise ... without being up front about it. My $0.02 ...