What are 1 2 3 blocks?

[scoop]

looks like I may have poked a wasps nest here.No offense to anybody or any measurement system was meant or implied but having worked with both over a long time I just prefer metric.I agree that fractional sizes are a pain and when using imperial we would be better off going decimal,but when you go to buy some brass bar or similar you have to use fractions again so you are back to square one.Yes pints of beer are still readily available in English pubs but then again my local will sell me a yard of ale if I ask for it,its madness I tell you.I swear that if metric units of measurement were used along with decimal currency(still pounds,shillings and pence then) when I was at school I could have saved myself 2 years of learning time.I dont really mind what sizes I use at home now especially on small engineering projects as its just a trip down memory lane when using inches.The drawings supplied with stuart kits are fun though the fractional sizes are quite cute in places.I sympathise with Brian who has had similar problems in Canada with the switch,however when visiting Canada a few years ago my biggest problem was working with two languages!Never have got on too well with French,even though most of my work now involves French based electrical drawings.
I did notice a slightly humorous tone to your reply Kludge,I did think my earlier post was a bit opinionated.All I wanted to do really was to test the water and see what people really think about the different systems and find out how members of this group get on with using both.Do Americans really hate the metric system?

best regards to all Steve C.

 

[cfellows]

All I wanted to do really was to test the water and see what people really think about the different systems and find out how members of this group get on with using both.Do Americans really hate the metric system?

best regards to all Steve C.

I don't think Americans hate the metric system. It's just unfamiliar. When you've used inches and feet all your life, it's hard to look at a part or a piece of stock and estimate it's size in millimeters or centimeters. It's kind of like trying to describe something in a second language that you haven't used very much... requires to much mental conversion. And, our machine tools are all designed to work in inches and decimals.

Chuck

 

[scoop]

Bit of a slip there using the word hate,what I really meant to say was "do Americans dislike using metric".I appreciate the problems with equipment made for inches,that can make it a lot more awkward.

best regards Steve C.

 

[mklotz]

In the USA, the metric system is used widely in the military and aerospace industry and almost exclusively in the scientific and medical communities. Folks who have to deal frequently with units conversions or need to minimize the risks of using disparate units recognize and embrace its superiority.

The man in the street who does no technical work sees no need for change and so resists it vehemently. He'll go so far as to argue that ACU (American Customary Units) are superior - this despite the fact that most of these proponents don't understand ACU themselves. The very concept of a measurement *system* (as opposed to a hodge-podge collection of units of convenience) is lost on him.

 

[Stilldrillin]

Through all those years in engineering.

Imperial, metric, then back to imperial, then (now) a modern day mixture....... No problem!

Until a schoolkid uses centimeters....... What size is that, then? :

 

[Kludge]

looks like I may have poked a wasps nest here.

Nah, but I was seriously concerned my somewhat odd sense of humor was slipping. They kind of tolerate me here despite being an escapee from the Home for the Terminally Weird. When people say I'm crazy, I can show them papers from the VA that say I really am. Not too bad a deal, is it.

No offense to anybody or any measurement system was meant or implied but having worked with both over a long time I just prefer metric.

I'm one of those odd Americans who can bounce from one to the other pretty comfortably since I've run into one situation where being comfortable in metric was needed plus talking with people who had no understanding of Imperial.

I agree that fractional sizes are a pain and when using imperial we would be better off going decimal,but when you go to buy some brass bar or similar you have to use fractions

Yep, yep. Yet there's a company that makes wall partition material in decimal inch and in metric, both of which buck the norm. That is sufficiently cool in itself that it's a moral imperative for me to make something like a machine tool bed from the framing stock.

Yes pints of beer are still readily available in English pubs but then again my local will sell me a yard of ale if I ask for it, its madness I tell you.

Hmmm ... over on this side of the pond, combining any alcoholic beverage and "yard" usually means you're in a neighbor's yard stealing garden ornaments. Or doing something unsavory with them, at least.

I did notice a slightly humorous tone to your reply Kludge,I did think my earlier post was a bit opinionated.

No harm, no foul. And no offense taken.

Do Americans really hate the metric system?

I don't know if hate is so true as don't understand it. It has been taught in terms of conversions rather than as a system of its own which, to me, is terribly confusing. There used to be an ad for a soft drink where a teacher asks the class how much 2 liters is. The "local punk" holds up a 2L bottle of the drink and says "This is 2 liters," while the "bright kid" gives the conversion from quarts. The teacher praised the latter when the former was right. That one ad pointed out the weakness of how the metric system is being taught here.

By the way, I noticed from your message count that you're one of our recent victims ... er, joined recently. Welcome aboard. We've got a bunch of really cool people here with a knowledge well that seems bottomless. Ask, and you'll have a bunch impart wisdom, both on and off topic.

Best regards,

Kludge

 

[rleete]

I'm one of those odd Americans

Took the words right out of my mouth! :big:

I don't know if hate is so true as don't understand it.

Too true. Back when I was working for a company that did everything in metric, I'd talk to my machinist friend about what I was working on. I'd say something was 6mm, and he'd give me a blank look. When I said about 1/4", he'd understand. He just couldn't "see" it in metric the way he could in inches. If you aren't around it all the time, it's hard to grasp.

Personally, I have worked in both, and I do find metric easier in terms of fewer decimals. The real confusion and pain-in-the-butt comes from mixing systems, where you get odd conversions. In my current job, where most of the lens specifications come from Europe - and hence in metric - we use them, but specify the tooling (made over here) in decimal. I tend to use round numbers - .300 for instance - instead of the fractional equivalent like .3125 because it's just as easy for the shop using DRO and CNC to hit, and it makes the numbers neater.

 

[Kludge]

Took the words right out of my mouth! :big:

Would you like them back? ;D

Personally, I have worked in both, and I do find metric easier in terms of fewer decimals. The real confusion and pain-in-the-butt comes from mixing systems, where you get odd conversions.

Here's a good one for you. American watch sizes run from 0s (1-5/30") in both directions to 18s and 8/0s (might be smaller, I can't remember right off) ... in steps of 1/30". I have no clue why or where that system originated. The Swiss Ligne system isn't any better, just in metric. Going between the Swiss and American systems is a real "treat". On the other hand, watchmaker's lathes on both sides of the pond are metric machines and I have yet to find anything threaded from either side of the ocean that wasn't metric.

In my current job, where most of the lens specifications come from Europe - and hence in metric - we use them, but specify the tooling (made over here) in decimal.

I'm a ham radio operator. Calculations involving frequency and wavelength work out much more neatly in metric so when I would doing something like designing a stripline or an antenna, I worked in metric whenever possible. However, PC boards, components etc are in fractional or decimal inches. As a result, I would lay out the striplines and/or antennas first then add anything else needed on the board to fit behind it. I don't play with microwave anymore but if I was, I'd be even more insane than I am now. Not that anyone would notice. ;D

In optics, I have several lenses with the diameter measured in decimal or fractional inches and the focal length in metric.

Gotta love it!

BEst regards,

Kludge

 

[Kludge]

Yep, I'd imagine that being in the UK a 25.4-50.8-76.2 block just wouldn't be very memorable!

Reflective thought: 25 50 75mm blocks would be quite handy ... or 20 40 60mm or 10 20 30mm for small projects. Actually, I'd love a set that size.

Side question: The blocks I've seen are sold in pairs. If one purchases two pairs from the same company, would the individual blocks be interchangable?

BEst regards,

Kludge

 

[rleete]

Side question: The blocks I've seen are sold in pairs. If one purchases two pairs from the same company, would the individual blocks be interchangable?

Not necessarily. We use blocks to set up the seamlines on large optical panels. In order to get them matched, you have to get sets. More expensive, because all have to be within some miniscule number of each other (+/- 1 millionth?). Pairs are matched, but may not match each other.

For what we do, they're probably close enough.

Interesting fact: We make lenses (mostly Fresnel style) at work. Take a piece of metal, what to the naked eye is perfectly smooth and defect free. Heck, check it under magnification, it still looks good. Now, compression mold a piece of plastic on that, and hold it up to the light. Your eye can now see every minor imperfection in that metal. That's why the seamlines have to be perfect, and we spend big bucks for very precise 1-2-3 blocks.

 

[jack404]

Reflective thought: 25 50 75mm blocks would be quite handy ... or 20 40 60mm or 10 20 30mm for small projects. Actually, I'd love a set that size.

Side question: The blocks I've seen are sold in pairs. If one purchases two pairs from the same company, would the individual blocks be interchangable?

BEst regards,

Kludge

Kludgy,

contact anchultz in Chech land ( the gunsmithing tool works factory)

they have just what your dreaming about, small and large "stepped" blocks too, not cheap but very handy

i got mine as part of a kit

no web site i know of

i looked em up through a dealer here and phoned em, they sent me a catalogue

the rest is expencive history.. tools.. oh the dollars we spend..

you know i bought a mechanical flint knapper? $200 right there..

precision angle set $189

Vee Blocks with clamps $139

but 123 blocks are cheap , ($35-$65 in OZ half that in the US)
handy, in sooo many ways
accurate enough for what we want (ok ok theres some of you who want nanometer stuff)

blocks for the most part are not matched unless stated "matched set" and then i'd be dubious unless a known brand was involved

but my non matched pair are close enough to perfect on the marked thin edges , maybe i am lucky but most blocks can be "paired" with another along at least one edge.

cheers

jack

 

[Kludge]

If you could send me the contact info, I'd appreciate it.

BTW: the "good" tap and die set that I have my eyes on is from Brownells, also a gunsmithing supply house. They are supporting my new "love affair" with 40 tpi which may or may not be a good thing.

Best regards,

Kludge

 

[BobWarfield]

Personally, I think measurement systems are like languages. They can separate us, but those who take the time to learn more than one are better for it. I'm happy to convert between metric and Imperial for all the common measurements I ever encounter. I am better at eyeballing Imperial, but that's okay, I just do the conversion. I am better at Base 10, so metric can seem better, but as a Computer Scientist by trade, I have to deal in binary, octal (Base 8), and Hexadecimal (Base 16) as well, so some familiarity with conversion is called for.

I had to learn both measurement systems as well as the different numbering systems as part of my schooling and it has stuck with me without too much trouble. That's not to say I instantly convert everything, but it doesn't take much longer as I have my Excel open most all the time as a calculator.

Where it gets ticklish is the odd measurements that I use far less often. Stepper motor torque, for example.

In any event, i should think the metric world has its own equivalent of 1-2-3 blocks. And while we're on that latter more on-topic subject, 2-4-6 blocks are extremely handy as well. Watch for a pair to be on sale, they come up every so often.

Cheers,

BW

 

[Hilmar]

How about big numbers?

Mega 1 Million = Number with 6 zero
Giga 1 Milliards = Number with 9 zeros
Tera 1 billion = Number with 12 zeros
Peta 1 billiard = Number with 15 zeros
Exa 1 Trillion = Number with 18 zeros

Well how do you write a Billion or Trillion in English ??

 

[jack404]

no wonder we got so many billionaires

a billion here (Oz) is 1,000,000,000

if i read the above right the US billion is 1,000,000,000,000

hmmm

jack

 

[Kludge]

a billion here (Oz) is 1,000,000,000

Same in the US. I thought Milliard came before Million ... but, being an American, what do I know?

BEst regards,

Kludge

 

[Peter Neill]

On the eternal debate of Metric vs Imperial, I thought that "Boris", who posts over on the PM forum managed to sum it up very well with this little gem:

"Seeing as I'm British, I'll give the run down of how a modern british engineering type person thinks

From 0 to 0.001" I use microns
From 0.025mm to 0.1mm I use imperial
From 0.04" to 1" I use metric
and anything above 25.4mm I use imperial

Boris"

Peter

 

[Kludge]

On the eternal debate of Metric vs Imperial, I thought that "Boris", who posts over on the PM forum managed to sum it up very well with this little gem:

What? No Angstroms?

BEst regards,

Kludge

 

[Tin Falcon]

Guys I am a little disappointed. I know the metric vs imperial thing touches a lot of thoughts and feelings. But I am sad that the discussion has derailed a potentially great thread on the uses of 1-2-3 block or there metric equivalent if there is one.
There have been threads on the metric rant lets keep that stuff in the break room unless it really actuality applies to the topic.
Tin

 

[John S]

Just my opinions on the 1-2-3 blocks.

I feel that they don't have an exact use in that someone could come up with an instruction sheet from 19 ought plonk and say this is what they are for.

They are for whatever use the owner has for them, a bit like screwdriver, Ok it turns screws but what length ?

A lot of peoples use of them is as precision packings or parallels but why do they have to be 1-2-3 ? Does anyone ever measure off them? I suppose some must do.

One thing I hate about parallels is the sizes, take the 1-2 -3 blocks for example. using the 1" side they can't support a 1" bar in a vise as the block will grips slighly before the bar because of the splay of the jaws and the fact that commercial bar is usually about a thou under.

Same applies to packing strip sets, I usually make my own up from Ground flat stock, cleaned up on the surface grinder to a few thou below nominal size to get by the trapping issue. They might not be to microns but neither is my work

John_S