Unsatisfied !?

[minh-thanh]

Unsatisfied ...
When making an engine and especially with engines with many parts , many cylinders,, sometimes there is one or two parts that I really don't like - due to a small mistake or carelessness or even poor machining. ... , it's still usable but I'm not satisfied
Use it or will make a new one!? That's a question I often ask myself
I always want it to be the best it can be, but there's always something I don't like
Have you ever been like that ? And what will you do ?
Thanks !

 

[stevehuckss396]

If I were unhappy with a part I would make a new one.

 

[minh-thanh]

If I were unhappy with a part I would make a new one.

If that part takes a lot of effort and time like crankshaft, camshaft, or block engine .., will you still make a new one ?

 

[DrMike]

Make it over, regardless of the time, effort and material needed.

It might work just fine, and might even WOW! those you show it to.

But you will always know it's not right.
And that's the only thing you'll see every time you look at it.

 

[stevehuckss396]

"Make it over, regardless of the time, effort and material needed.

It might work just fine, and might even WOW! those you show it to.

But you will always know it's not right.
And that's the only thing you'll see every time you look at it."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Sprocket]

I have a small collection of "learning experiences"
Besides, if it's something you had never made before, now you've made one before!

Doug

 

[Nerd1000]

Perfect is the enemy of good. Ask yourself what is required of the part (fits, tolerances, surface finish?), if it complies with requirements why worry? If it doesn't, re-make it.

 

[Lloyd-ss]

This is more of a psychological question than a technical question.

I don't see a black or white answer on this, but I can appreciate the fact that many of you do. This is a hobby of passion, for those who are driven by something that 99.9% of the people you run into don't have, and cannot do. So, we are already on the edge and some want to keep it pure and not have to make a decision. Fine. You have time and material, go for it. Or maybe you are selling it, or might sell it, and it is a matter of pride and reputation. Remake it so that it is perfect.

But there are always several ways to look at a "problem." And I am of the not-so-pure point of view. I have a limited number of hours for this hobby and sometimes need to decide when good enough is good enough. Have you ever heard the saying, "It is time to shoot the engineers and go on with production." ?

By asking the question, maybe Minh Thanh is on the fence about a tiny defect in a complex part.

Here are questions I might ask myself. If I answer YES to more than a couple of these questions, I will probably remake the part.

I am making this for someone else.
I might sell this in the future.
People who know and appreciate "quality work" will see this project.
As it is now, the part might possibly fail in the future.
The defect is more than cosmetic.
I have plenty of time and don't mind re-making it.
Knowing the defect is in there will bother the heck out of me.
If I remake the part, I already know how I can make it even better.
I can remake it pretty quickly.
It was a dumb mistake and I fell stupid about it.
I really wanted this project to come out as near perfect as I could make it.
It's a matter of pride to me.
Anybody can hide their mistakes, but I will not.
More??

I am sure we all have our own tipping point.

P.S. Luckily, all of my bosses were happy with correct, and never demanded perfect.

 

[Wheat47]

Unsatisfied ...
When making an engine and especially with engines with many parts , many cylinders,, sometimes there is one or two parts that I really don't like - due to a small mistake or carelessness or even poor machining. ... , it's still usable but I'm not satisfied
Use it or will make a new one!? That's a question I often ask myself
I always want it to be the best it can be, but there's always something I don't like
Have you ever been like that ? And what will you do ?
Thanks !

I don't know about you guys, but when I started making model engines and such, I figured I made each machine at least twice to get one!!
As I became more experienced, I got somewhat better. Now, I make 1 1/2 to get one!!LOLOL As someone mentioned, there is the "wow" factor others see in your work. I no longer point out the mistakes I made to others. What they don't know won't hurt them. Also, as someone else pointed out, if a piece doesn't work, you gotta replace it. A few of my machines, I got them operating, but if there was a "sketchy" piece, I would go back and replace it.
Just my point of view.
Jon

 

[D and D]

If that part takes a lot of effort and time like crankshaft, camshaft, or block engine .., will you still make a new one ?

Yes I would, I enjoy the manufacturing as much as the finished item. I often think of a quote by Nevil Shute Norwood "
For my own part, I was learning what better men than I had learned before me. That to travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive, and the true success is to labour.

 

[peterl95124]

if I ever tried to correct every machining mistake I made I'd never, ever finish anything,
that's just a fact of life, you can only afford perfection when you're making an endless
number of identical parts and can afford to throw away the first N (N is a large number)
as test pieces, but in a model engine you're only making one, or a couple, of a part.

On my model R R Merlin V12 engine every single large part of aluminum has some machining
mistake, and that's after discarding some parts that had to be do-overs because they were
unusable. The mistakes aren't all obvious, but I know where they are. However, the engine
runs, and it looks AOK, so that's that and on to another engine model.

there are some parts of an IC engine that do require perfection, unless the valves and rings
seal it won't run, that's where you spend your allotment of perfectionism, if you try to go
much beyond that to cosmetics you will never, ever finish, or at least I'd never finish, there
are some people (Chris at Clickspring for example) that can do it, but not me, and I don't
allow myself to loose any sleep over it either. Nor do I try to patch over and paint over
mistakes, just leave them be, getting the engine to run comes first, after that you're so happy
you forget about the mistakes.

 

[D and D]

if I ever tried to correct every machining mistake I made I'd never, ever finish anything,
that's just a fact of life, you can only afford perfection when you're making an endless
number of identical parts and can afford to throw away the first N (N is a large number)
as test pieces, but in a model engine you're only making one, or a couple, of a part.

On my model R R Merlin V12 engine every single large part of aluminum has some machining
mistake, and that's after discarding some parts that had to be do-overs because they were
unusable. The mistakes aren't all obvious, but I know where they are. However, the engine
runs, and it looks AOK, so that's that and on to another engine model.

there are some parts of an IC engine that do require perfection, unless the valves and rings
seal it won't run, that's where you spend your allotment of perfectionism, if you try to go
much beyond that to cosmetics you will never, ever finish, or at least I'd never finish, there
are some people (Chris at Clickspring for example) that can do it, but not me, and I don't
allow myself to loose any sleep over it either. Nor do I try to patch over and paint over
mistakes, just leave them be, getting the engine to run comes first, after that you're so happy
you forget about the mistakes.

Sounds like we agree Peter, strive for excellence not perfection.

 

[mole42]

In my case, I’m building the 9-cylinder Gnome radial to improve my skills in machine work. I’ve already made several more parts than strictly necessary. When I get the engine running I’ll be happy.

 

[bluejets]

Make it right the first time.

Measure twice, cut once.

 

[Ken I]

I try to adopt the "two bites of the cherry" approach.
I make the parts in the sequence most easy to correct on the subsequent part - I then strive for perfection - a personal triumph every time I mike up after my final cut to find I'm spot on. If not I'll fix it on the mating part. Screw that up and you have to make it again.
Obviously major blunders generally go into the scrap bin for future stock or repurposing and to serve as a reminder.
That can get close to self flagellation - I learned how to completely make the voice coil and re-cone a 1948 jukebox speaker - a learning experience so I know now how to do it now. But my first experiments suffered 5 failed attempts - I won't bore you with the details but it was a process of learning what manufacturing methods did and didn't work - I finally had a perfectly wound coil but when I came to fit it to the cone I found it was precisely 4mm too short due to a stupid measuring error. AAARRRRGGGHHH!
My sixth attempt was successful - but the pristine and otherwise perfect #5 stood on one of my shelves laughing at me - I couldn't bear to simply throw it away given the amount of effort that had gone into it. Beautiful but useless.
It stood there for about 5 years and I caught it laughing at me one time too many - grabbed it off the shelf - stamped it flat with my foot and tossed it in the bin.
Lesson - don't torture yourself with your mistakes, we all make 'em.

Regards, Ken I

 

[minh-thanh]

Hi All !
Thanks for the comments !
Each opinion has its own good
If I attach too much importance to perfection, then maybe I can hardly complete an engine - at least for now, experience, skills, machines, knowledge... are not enough.
If perfection is disregarded, unnecessary or similar, then my machining experience and skill...will recede over time.
I need to find a balance, what is enough...at least for now and in the near future

But I love this story :

My sixth attempt was successful - but the pristine and otherwise perfect #5 stood on one of my shelves laughing at me - I couldn't bear to simply throw it away given the amount of effort that had gone into it. Beautiful but useless.
It stood there for about 5 years and I caught it laughing at me one time too many - grabbed it off the shelf - stamped it flat with my foot and tossed it in the bin.

It makes me laugh

 

[ajoeiam]

Sounds like we agree Peter, strive for excellence not perfection.

I believe the saying is "Strive for perfection and settle for excellence"

 

[vederstein]

For me depends on a few of factors:

○ What's the purpose? Am I building something for looks (e.g. my Dancer's Engine) or am I trying something that's never been done before (e.g. Camgine! or my Four Square Engine)
○ How visible is the mistake and how distracting is the error? Can I hide it or orientate the part in a way to make it less noticeable?
○ How frustrated am I with this project? Do I have any more patience to screw with it?

I generally fall into the "If it works, it's good enough" category. On the rare occasion I get to display my engines in public, it's not like people are scrutinizing these things or I'm in a machining competition. Most people either don't notice or don't care about a minor error here or there.

...Ved.

 

[Lloyd-ss]

I have slept on this and given it more thought,, so a second reply.

Although I haven't been working on engines very long, pretty much everything I make, now and for years previously, is a Design-Build project.

I rough the design out in cadd, and then proceed. During and after the build of each part, I keep an up to date AS-BUILT drawing. Does that mean that all my parts are perfect, LOL.?

 

[Lloyd-ss]

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