Truing the chuck super easy

[fcheslop]

Iv used an HBM chuck for several years and its more accurate than the hardly used Bison that came with the lathe
https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog...ERING-CHUCK--FRONT-MOUNT--432583.html#SID=313
Has anyone made this I keep promising to build one
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d61F_EhiX0&t=1608s[/ame]

 

[Blogwitch]

I have about a dozen fairly new or little used chucks, most are of the HBM types mentioned by F above, and I have no complaints about any of them.

If anything, I have found that the 4 jaw self centering are slightly better than the 3 jaw ones, with less runout, all less than 1 thou.

Don't forget, if you do buy a far eastern chuck, get a set of soft jaws at the same time, 3 or 4 jaw, you won't regret the little extra cost.


John

 

[goldstar31]

Thanks Frazer but I had to go to my Mac to see more than a black rectangle.

John raised the issue of adding a Keats plate to the library of tools and if I can be minded, I'll weld one up.

My second proper lathe - a Pools Major which you will never have heard about, came with a slotted faceplate that became a gi-norm-ous 4 jaw independent chuck. Probably an old mate still has it but the next variation which is far, far simpler than most came from the shed of one Martin Cleeve who made a tee slotted faceplate which took Myford tee slot bolts ( obviously because he had a Myford)

All it was 8 bits of plate and bolted to a standard 7" Myford faceplate. Again, no milling, just the ability to find bits of plate that ended up to accept Myford tee nuts and bolts.

So it only left things to one's imagination of bits to add. Maybe a vice, maybe a n angle plate or a bit of metal - twer that size and could be peppered with assorted holes and tapped threads ad nauseum until it was filled full of holes.

Brilliant, accurate and dead simple.

Thanks

Norm

 

[fcheslop]

I do like the HBM chuck and although its a self centring 4 jaw its my go to chuck
Thanks for the tip that the 3 jaw is not as good as the 4 jaw rarely has more than 2 thou run out and it has been well used but not abused
Its nice to know what others have found as I simply cannot afford to buy replacements on a regular basis and what I have has to last.
I simply like the look of the tooling in the video and from what I can see it takes away some of the faffing about with a keets and its just a nice bit of tooling to make as a break from engines .
Im not sure what to build it from either cast iron or a decent grade of steel although it would not be hardened as I simply dont have the kit although I maybe able to call in a favour or two
This is the problem when you dont have a fully equipped tool room to sneak in and use anymore. The big bonus is I dont have to go and work,
cheers

 

[Blogwitch]

F,
That offcentre chuck is basically a small Keats angle plate, but having it built into that block does save a bit of tapping.

The reason I like the Keats is that it can be used and bolted down almost anywhere to get piece parts standing vertically.

John

 

[fcheslop]

Hi John, Im missing something then , As I see it used on the rotary as well as the lathe, Im not being difficult just dont see the advantage of the keets over this set up and it looks a lot easier to play with
Im simply not seeing the advantage of the old over the newer although its probably been done before as have most things in this game
cheers

 

[JCSteam]

Going slightly off topic, so forgive me.

Frazer thanks for posting that video, a lot of learning in that video, and a lot of 'ah!!!' Moments for me. I'll be checking a few more of his videos out.....

As for the promise of making one, if you ever do I'd like to borrow it...(already have one steam engine that would benefit from it).....failing that I'd like to make my own. My question would be could this be made to bolt to a faceplate using the same four bolts, and clocked in using the outer diameter of the steel lump.

It's a neat design and one which simplifies variables down to just 1 axis, once set up of course.

 

[Blogwitch]

F,

I am not decrying that chuck, but for the cost in money and labour, just a standard Keats will do the job at much lower cost

Everyone to their own.

Plus, depending on the throat on your mill, you might find that putting it on top of an RT, you just mine not have enough room.


John

 

[fcheslop]

Hi John, thanks for the reply being a nosy beggar I though I was missing something. I agree its a lot of work but you know whats its like when you just have to make one.
Jon, it wouldnt fit youre lathe as the threads are different .Also you can see a standard keets set up in John pics.They bolt onto a face plate as you can see
RDG amongst others sell them or like Norm mentioned they canbe made by fabricating . Nice try
cheers

 

[goldstar31]

Several issues arise as Jon has the construction notes etc from Harold Hall in Model Engineers Workshop. These were from castings!

The next daft thought is that this mumbling inarticulate fellow( I'm almost profoundly deaf, anyway) seems to have used a base not un-similar to my chucks on my Sieg. I had the 4 jaw on and thought- Hummmm? I could use it with only two opposing jaws anyway.

Then , lo and behold, there was light at then end of the tunnel and I recalled a small turret vice where the fixed jaw( so to speak, rottes bringing in various shapes and an opposing conventional jaw but with a brass 'protector'

When the streets air and the intravenous coffee reaches the parts that the naproxens haven't got to, I'll dig it out

It's not new, this concept!

Cheers

N

Note Bone-----Mine is a Dohm of Victoria Street, London whilst further investigation shows an article in Commercial Motor for an improved version called the 'Dohm Colt' Also full write up with pretty pictures on the MigWelding site

There ye go- laughin and scratchin. Now't new.

 

[Blogwitch]

You are quite right F,

I have at least a dozen tooling projects that need doing before I can even consider making any new engines, some can quickly be made, others are projects. I am a sucker for good tooling, but won't make or buy them unless they will get used a fair amount. The first and major one is fitting a new motor and VFD to my lathe, but because I am limited to lifting only a couple of kilos at this time, that has to be held in abeyance. Once I can get to do it, then that gives me a clear run to start the others (as long as nothing else goes wrong).

Keep up the good work.


John

 

[JCSteam]

Thanks for the info Frazer, quite right on the mounting. Also John for the pics showing setup.

I had a look on RDG website and currently they are selling keats for less than £30 This is surely less than the cost of materials for the cast iron.
https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/KEATS-ADJUSTABLE-ANGLE-PLATE-688.html

If I can muster the cash up, starting a much better paid job Monday, before they sell out, I'll buy one.

Frazer at mine you said about the faceplate needing to be skimmed each time it's mounted on the spindle. Does this need to be done every time it's mounted or just once, (just for future reference)

 

[Blogwitch]

Don't worry Jon, I bought mine from RDG many moons ago, so I don't think they will sell out and day now.

With reference to skimming you faceplate.

Using a DTI, check for runout on the face, if more than a thou, skim across it. It only needs to be skimmed very rarely, check with the DTI before using and only skim if necessary. Faceplates can be classed as sacrificial tooling because the skimming takes a bit off each time, but not to worry, expect to get maybe 10 to 20 years out of one.

Because you lathe doesn't have powered cross feed it can be a bit of a chore to keep a very smooth feed all across the face. My lathe takes over half an hour to cut all the way across using the slowest cross feed setting I have, but it gives a very good and accurate finish, as can be seen on the photos above.

John

 

[goldstar31]

I agree with John but there is a doubt that the spindle is parallel with the ways.

Therefore, I'd put three sacrificial buttons, in line, one in the middle and the others at the extremes of the perimeter - and get the spindle correct before losing any precious 'meat' from the faceplate.

Don't ask how I learned that:fan:

N

 

[JCSteam]

Hi Norm, that was one thing Frazer checked, and at most there is a 1thou run out, but it doesn't look like there's even that. The Lathe was levelled too so it's running within 1thou on both counts.

John the faceplate could be as old as the lathe, Frazer said it's a sacrificial tool as it was to be skimmed, your faceplate is what prompted me to ask the question. Mine looks like it's never been skimmed at all so will have to do at least one skim, so I'll remember to take my time to feed the crosslide.

 

[fcheslop]

Hi John, Iv been mulling this wee chuck thing over all day whilst trying to find a slight bind on the latest engine :wall:
Although its a wonderful bit of kit I dont think I would use it enough so you are right in that respect yep the light came on
But theres always a but I have a spare catch plate and one of the keets plates for £25 could be keyed onto it
I will start a thread so I dont intrude here any longer.
Jon that face plate desperately needs a skim its like a warped disc. Norm is talking about the headstock been parallel inline with the bed not between centres
Sorry to have taken the thread of track
keep well
cheers

 

[goldstar31]

It's Friday the 13th and it's the October one. It's a bit-well- spooky as I 've had me Knight Templar and I've had a black dog in my garden. Whatever next? The Gift as we hill people know but rarely admit.

Well, Jon, on this day of days, I'd do precisely what I suggest.

Thinking about Frazer and catchplates, I have two as well and one is faced with a 4mm backplate and the undrilled cast iron faceplate- one of three is a rotary hone and has diamond paste( green syringe) to fine hone lathe tools.

I've been soldering- the wiring in my new shed and been faffing about with my AVO looking for a fault- it was in a NEW metal clad switch- strange French expletives. OK, I bought the wrong solder which was for water supplies and I've swapped back to lead/tin.

But 'somewhere' I read that this unwanted lead free stuff is almost pure tin. So I can make proper tinned bearings.

Friday the 13th is turning out rather better than it started

Ah well?

N

 

[bazmak]

I have never skimmed a faceplate yet over many,many years.If its within a thou then leave it. I for one would not call a faceplt sacrificial.Bad damage or wear
yes then i would skim it.Dont forget that if the lathe is old and worn then any
discrepancies in the cross slide will show up on the faceplt.You are trying to do too much,too soon with an old lathe.As Norm said get the obvious things right
first

 

[goldstar31]

I get a bit concerned about things. As Baz so rightly says, you must get your lathe to perform as best as it is able- and then, and only then do you play about with adding the nice but not essential stuff.

You raised a PM about re- metalling bearings and for others too, might I point out that it is highly doubtful that your lathe will bore sufficiently accurately to replace/refurbish the existing somewhat ropey old bearings.

Before you romp off to RDG to buy a Keats, you would be better served to buy some measuring kit like a decent dial gauge and correct errors as best you can. I've suggested that you check the alignment of your spindle- as it stands by putting three steel or brass or whatever buttons on the faceplate- and see by machining that you can lay a ruler across all three points- and that ALL three buttons can be touched. It's not rocket science- it's dead simple and you will know one thing for definite.

With a clock gauge and stand, you can check just how alignments are- whether they are fine or 'wonder off into space'

Again, let me pontificate if I must and tell you that a single point boring bar will not necessarily bore a parallel hole- if the lathe is out of alignment. Using an in line boring bar WILL bore PARALLEL regardless of the lathe alignment. No guarantee of what diameter it will be but it will be PARALLEL. Once you have a capability of producing 'shell bearings' you can solder two bits of metal together and turn the outside to the dimension of the exterior of the spindle housing and bore to your unknown spindle diameter. Then you cut the shell bearings and fit them.

But you have to have a dial gauge and a decent mike and NOT I repeat a bloody Vernier of unknown provenance.

Above all do remember that hundreds and millions of people have got lathes and machine tools right before you came along.
There is nothing new to discover- you simply follow the herd-- and BE HAPPY

 

[Rudy from Norway]

OK.. this is how this issue was somewhat solved. I got a new 4-jaw self centering HBM Chuck from RDG Tools. I also bought a MT4 alignment test bar to check the spindle. It was within 0,04mm at the spindle and about 0,07 at the end. Not all that bad I believe.
I dismantled the new HBM chuck right the way to clean it up and have a look. It looks slightly better than the original chuck. It has bolt pattern for both 3 and 4 bolts. Put it on to the lathe and grabbed the new test bar with it. Actually slightly better than just the test bar. Especially at the end that did not show any more out of round than at the spindle end, about 0,03-0,07mm.
Over all not much better than the old chuck, but when working with it I noticed that any work I put in there seemed to run more true. I could even take the work out and put it in without substantial run out. It is absolutely easier to get a more precise grip on the work. I also ordered two sets of soft jaws for it, but I haven't figured out how to use them yet.